2002 Blue Bird All American Rear Engine Purchase???

[Hooker]

So is there any reason anyone would want to talk me out of buying a 2002 Blue Bird All American Rear Engine bus with Cummins 8.3 and MD3060 with Retarder.

So far only thing I see I might regret is, it's a Non AC Bus. I don't really think I"ll be traveling that often, and if I do I wouldn't have many people with me, maybe 2 others.

I am more familiar Blue Bird Vision dog nose buses so what do I need to know about and be looking for on a RE Flat Nose that could be wrong?

If I get this bus, I'll be selling my 2010 BB Vision Handy Bus with front and rear integrated Carrier AC Systems. So should I maybe keep the 2010 Vision with Cummins 6.7ISB and Allison 2500?

[ewo1]

I like RE’s over dognose.
You could add a/c frim a donor bus or solar minisplits.

If the money is right i myself would but the flatnose.

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by ewo1

I like RE’s over dognose.
You could add a/c frim a donor bus or solar minisplits.

If the money is right i myself would but the flatnose.

Yes, I do have a donor bus with 2 AC units. Small ones though since it's a short bus, but the plan is mini split for parking. So maybe just an AC unit for up front while traveling for driver and a couple passengers. Not cool the whole bus while traveling. Maybe have a curtain to section off the front sofa area for passengers and driver only.

Yes, I am curious about money too. I've been looking for awhile. Ask price is $8000. Most I seen are $10-$12K. It's a no rust bus. I wish it wasn't so long, like a 36 or 32 but that one looks like a city block long 40 footer, but the shorter ones seem to sell for even higher money. I don't like paying more for less, so I guess I'll make a 40 footer work if $8000 is a good price.

[ewo1]

Asking if $8,000 is a good price, that is up tp you the buyer.
Me, I am a cheapskate who still looks for 1980's pricing on stuff.

My fist bus I paid $1'500. Runs and drives like a champ but had rust which is all taken care of now.

My second bus only cost me $500 at auction but then I had to rebuild the engine and parts alone were just over $5,000.
Much closer to $8,000 but with my pricing I have a fresh engine now.

I don't believe in buying from a private party unless they are giving it away at a great price. So far I have stuck to auction buying.

At the end of the day, whatever you do, you are the only one that has to live with your decision, we here are just bystanders.

[nikitis]

Personally looks like an upgrade to me.

[cadillackid]

the 2002 8.3 with 3060 is a superior drivetrain but i wouldnt touch a bus without A/C.. solar minisplits are worthless on the road.. you could save all of the factor A/C parts from the 2010 and then find a set of compressor brackets for the 8.3 and move it over... then you have the best of both worlds...



that said the 6.7 is a good engine as is the 2500 PTS transmission ..its emission controlled but generally cummins got it right.. being a 6.7 id be inclined to hang onto it simply because of the A/C..

[desrtdog]

While that 2010 bus is emission controlled, it should still be pre-DEF, so that’s a plus. Also, I concur with CK about the A/C -our lack thereof…OKC is not exactly in the cooler part of the country.

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by desrtdog

While that 2010 bus is emission controlled, it should still be pre-DEF, so that’s a plus. Also, I concur with CK about the A/C -our lack thereof…OKC is not exactly in the cooler part of the country.

Yes, my 2010 is pre DEF since it was manufactured 09/09 instead of after 1/1/2010. Yep, the DEF goes by the manufacture date, not the year model of the bus. With DEF also came a totally different instrumentation cluster too. So I have the older 09 instrumentation.

I am still thinking about it too. Though I really like the space and the rear engine, not sure I want a city block long bus either. The belly storage is pulling at me too. The AC doesn't bother me to bad. As said, I do have another parts bus with 2 AC units, that I could rob one of those systems and use AC just for the front section where driver and what passengers I'd have would be.

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by ewo1

Asking if $8,000 is a good price, that is up tp you the buyer.
Me, I am a cheapskate who still looks for 1980's pricing on stuff.

My fist bus I paid $1'500. Runs and drives like a champ but had rust which is all taken care of now.

My second bus only cost me $500 at auction but then I had to rebuild the engine and parts alone were just over $5,000.
Much closer to $8,000 but with my pricing I have a fresh engine now.

I don't believe in buying from a private party unless they are giving it away at a great price. So far I have stuck to auction buying.

At the end of the day, whatever you do, you are the only one that has to live with your decision, we here are just bystanders.

I typically don't spend $8000 on any bus either. I've ended up with 5 buses and flipped one of those for a healthy profit, and to get this one, I'll likely sell the 2010 Vision, since it appears that one is going to be an easy sell for more than the $8000 I'd get this RE bus for. So I pretty much look at it, more of trading than buying. I don't know of any school distrticts nearby or in my region of the states using RE engine buses, and 2002's are usually long gone by now, so I feel certain I won't find a bus like this at any school auction unless it's not been running for quite sometime sitting in a bus barn lot for several years. I've just about literally stolen 3 of my buses with what little I paid for them, so it might be time, I really have to pay for one to get one I want. And that's OK too. I'll make enough profit on that Vision, to get my money back I have into it, PLUS this $8000 to buy this RE bus, so it's going to be a FREE Bus to me. All 5 of my buses are already FREE buses with the profit I made on the 1 bus I did sell already. That's the only way I'd be able to analyze it and allow myself to spend that much on a bus. I've also been watching the market. It seems like there's been a bit of a price drop on buses and I'm sure that's due to it being summer time, lots of districts are dumping buses right now for the summer anticipating the newer fleet buses for the begining of the new school year. So market is a bit saturated at the moment bring down prices a bit. I think they'll go back up again about September or October.

[BamaBus]

The very first bus I bid on was a rear engine All American 8.3. I didn't understand the auction procedure and lost it. I have bought many since but I am never satisfied. Don't give me opportunity to buy it!

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

The very first bus I bid on was a rear engine All American 8.3. I didn't understand the auction procedure and lost it. I have bought many since but I am never satisfied. Don't give me opportunity to buy it!

LOL, yeah I was worried about that too. Don't ask anyone about it, or they'll go get it. But it appears the guy isn't all that easy to get in touch with and he's not in town right now so I have to wait to go see it and hopefully pick it up. He has finally answered all my questions and we have arrangments to meet. The way it's looking, unless he's lying about something, I'll be buying it. I see no reason for him to lie, and I have more pics and video so it doesn't appear he's hiding anything and is legit. He also gave me all the #'s and info about it so I could do my own research and checking on things and it all checks out. So provided noone figures out a way to get it, then my 2010 Vision will likely be for sale soon, and my 2002 Freightliner Thomas. I might still keep the 2005 Vision just because but it's not likley to be built out.

[cadillackid]

resale prices on busses are coming down fast.. many people are buying partial conversions.. the Facebook groups are full with busses that are reducing prices.. and . or have partial conversions started.. they are staying listed for longer periods.. getting 8 grand for a 2010 vision is a pipe dream now.. couple years ago not so much.. it wouldve sold pretty readily at close to that...



alot of people jumped in thje bandwagon a few years ago and have realized just how much work it takes to do a build nicely and how much it takes to maintain a bus (and fuel to drive it)..



this is also true of the RV market in general.. while hotel room market isnt what it was before covid.. Leisure travel room nights are now way above 2019 levels while business travel nights are below (business travel is slowly returning but nit as fast).. this says people are not RVing in general as much as they were in 2020-2022..



if you are going to sell a bus id get it done rather soon... if you are looking to buy a bus just hang loose and wait for the right deal.. they are coming along..

[Kentucky Dreaming]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

getting 8 grand for a 2010 vision is a pipe dream now.. couple years ago not so much.. it wouldve sold pretty readily at close to that...

if you are going to sell a bus id get it done rather soon... if you are looking to buy a bus just hang loose and wait for the right deal.. they are coming along..

Not sure I agree, Christopher. I put in a few bids last week on a 2009 Blue Bird van cutaway on a GMC 3500 chassis with 366 big block gasser in Bristol, Tennessee. (love that half-mile high banked track.) It ended up selling for almost $6.000. After sales tax and buyer's premium it came to $7110. And it didn't have AC in the passenger area, only the GM dash air.

That makes $8000 for a Medium duty bus sound somewhat reasonable but not to me.

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

resale prices on busses are coming down fast.. many people are buying partial conversions.. the Facebook groups are full with busses that are reducing prices.. and . or have partial conversions started.. they are staying listed for longer periods.. getting 8 grand for a 2010 vision is a pipe dream now.. couple years ago not so much.. it wouldve sold pretty readily at close to that...



alot of people jumped in thje bandwagon a few years ago and have realized just how much work it takes to do a build nicely and how much it takes to maintain a bus (and fuel to drive it)..



this is also true of the RV market in general.. while hotel room market isnt what it was before covid.. Leisure travel room nights are now way above 2019 levels while business travel nights are below (business travel is slowly returning but nit as fast).. this says people are not RVing in general as much as they were in 2020-2022..



if you are going to sell a bus id get it done rather soon... if you are looking to buy a bus just hang loose and wait for the right deal.. they are coming along..

If you really study the market, what you're saying is NOT TRUE in some cases. I do agree with you IN GENERAL, there's many buses that been there for a bit, and have had multiple price drops. A couple of them I thought, Ohh that'll be gone by the end of today now, but yet 4 days later, there it still sits. And many of the started conversion are NOT selling either. It appears word has got out and people are getting better educated. If you have a conversion started and the floor and subfloor isn't done right like people are learning, or the conversion was started without a full demo and spray foam, people are passing on those. What I see that's correct in what you're saying is, the long buses with no side doors are NOT selling. Like the 12,13 and 14 window buses. I've been saying it for months, the shorter the bus the more money it sells for. 5, 6 and 7 windows buses are still selling very well. I also say, you can't compare prices to ASK price. There's many many 2012ish full size Visions in the 140,000-200,000 mile range and they're asking $12,000-$14,000 for them. They're not going to get near that and those are going to sit there and rot til they get right on the price. Because what else I see, the later model the bus is, the better the price needs to be. People are getting educated about emissions and learning which emissions are OK to have in what model engies, and which emissions to avoid all together at any cost, just like no good deal on a rust bus, no good deal on a bus that requires DEF. Point being, you're correct if you look at the market as a whole, but if you have the right buses, you're going to be OK.

I've also noticed some of the social media bus sales pages, if you look, the Admins and Moderators are the bus seller dealers. I've been muted on at least a couple pages and that's when I figured that out. They're selling a Maxxforce Bus for $12K because it's only a 90,000 mile bus. Someone asks a question and shows interest, I'm not afraid to stop someone from having broken dreams, selling their house, buy that bus, put $30K into and their first trip out they have a $9000 repair or a $15-$20K engine install, just to have the same problem again in about 8-10 years becasue they bought a junk low mileage bus. If I can stop someone from making that mistake, I'll do it in a heartbeat, just like I would for a VT365 bus or a 2007 and later C7 with the ARD head, or a cutaway bus with Powerstoke 6.0 or 6.4. But, those dealers are trying to control the market on social media and their greed is going to catch up with them.

Also, I've noticed what you're saying to be true in just the last couple months. 3 months ago, the good buses were still selling good from what I seen. If you think about the market, a bit like Real Estate, School was out in early to Mid May for a lot of the country. Many districts dump their fleet at the end of the school year in anticipation for the arrival of the new fleet going to hit the ground by August when school starts back up, or new buses that have been sitting getting lettered and since Jan or Feb but getting put into service at the new school year. This creates a saturated market situation especially on the long buses since they're much more common but less sought after. This is exactly why I've decided I'll go for a long bus. I'll put the extra length to good use I promise. I just have an issue paying more for less, like a shortbed pick up truck. You can get a nice long bed pick up for $3000 but people will pay $5000 for a clapped out high mileage short bed pick up. It's the exact same in the bus market IMO. But those prices will come down on those long buses, and whose going to buy them is all the guys making toy haulers, cutting out the back half or third of the bus, dovetailing and adding ramps for race buggies and UTV's.

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by Kentucky Dreaming

Not sure I agree, Christopher. I put in a few bids last week on a 2009 Blue Bird van cutaway on a GMC 3500 chassis with 366 big block gasser in Bristol, Tennessee. (love that half-mile high banked track.) It ended up selling for almost $6.000. After sales tax and buyer's premium it came to $7110. And it didn't have AC in the passenger area, only the GM dash air.

That makes $8000 for a Medium duty bus sound somewhat reasonable but not to me.

Ohh the cutaway buses is a totally different market than a bus chassied bus. Can't even really compare them IMO. And yes, Buyer's Premiums and auction expenses are a joke that certainly brings the prices up. But, when people see what they bid closed at, that's what then tend to think they could have bought a bus for when they look at closed auctions. The Cutaway buses have always sold for big money. Even the short roof daycare buses because to a vanlifer, they don't care how low the ceiling is, they just see an overgrown van with a ton more space and still easy to handle, drive and park, usually the women buying those but yes, the cutaway market is totally different from the bus chassis market. I'm with you, but I didn't decide to buy a bus chassis bus basing price off of cutaway. Didn't even compare them. But that is why I decided to to do a full bus. Again, not paying more for less. Willl not pay $8000-$10,000 for a cutaway bus when I can get a whole ass long bus for $2000, and I never paid over $2000 for any of my 5 buses and they've all been bought in the last 2 years.

If this case here, I really want a RE All American, and my justificaton comes from, it's going to be more of a trade to me. I'll sell my 2010 Vision for more than what I'll be spending on the RE All American I'm hoping to buy, so it could have been $30K, if I can get $35K out of my Vison, and it's still a trade IMO. I've just seen several FE All Americans with Cummins 5.9's and Allison 2000 and 2500s selling, I mean, people paid it, not ask price, they sold for that in the last couple weeks. And I see RE's selling for more than FE generally, and just the 8.3 and MD3060 alone is worth more IMO, so the $8K doesn't seem so bad to me. Being close to 40 foot and NO OE AC is what I see as the drawbacks. If it were a 32 foot with AC, I'd gladly pay $10K for it. I'd even like a 36 foot beter, not sure I"d spend more though.

[cadillackid]

van chassis busses are in a different class as are short busses..



when i boiught my short busses no one wanted them.. people said "not enough space".. but then they began learning about how much easier an 8 window bus is to get someplace than a 12 window..



for some reason I had thought the vision was a long bus.. I went back and looked and saw its a shortie.. so yes, I stand corrected, that bus could bring more $$.. i wouldnt pay anything near 8K for it.. but maybe someone would..



RE busses often have a following because of the quietness and less upfront heat than a front engine..



short busses are in demand now.. (I get people asking all the time if I want to sell one or the other of my short busses)..



alot of people dont undersatand RV laws and buy Van chassis because they assume otherwise they need a CDL.. (many van chassis fall under the 15 seats or less).. also van chassis busses look like a traditional small motorhome so they feel its easier to drive and build out..



plus churches, daycare centers, etc will buy and run van chassis busses if they are still fully seated and just out of service.. a higher number of those are air-conditioned than full chassis school busses..



I still stand by my thought that the overall bus market is coming down from where it was... theres exceptions to every rule..


I wouldnt pay close to 10K for even an 02 with an 8.3 and 3060 with A/C.. ill buy a 5.9 for 5K, build the motor myself, have a fresh engine and the same power for less.. my ceiling on a 8.3 with 3060 and working A/C would be 7K..



the later Cummin s 6.7 busses will be OK emissions wise.. yeah there are issues at times.. buit these are not the C7's with 2nd gen ACERT or the Maxxforce engines.. its understandable that 08+ anything International through 15 is worthless and 08- ? CAT stuff is pretty worthless..



Mercedes and cummins generally got it right.,. Mercedes stuff often goes for CHeap because people assume the engine will cost then their life savings.. (id buy one in a heartbeat knowing what I do from a friend thats a mechanic for them)..



now old all mechanical busses do go for extremely high prices and its understandable.. some preppers want the idea of a 100% mechanical drivetrain that can work in an apocalypse.. and they are simple to work on.. I do enjoy the simplicity of my DTA360 with an MT643.. that bus just runs.. it just does.. anytime i need it to run it does.,. while i blew up the AT545 some years ago.. ive done ZERO engine work to it in 8 years.. none.. unless you count adjusting the valve tappets (I call that maintenance)..


on one hand people pay super high prices for mechanical busses, on the other hand, in the mechanical DT engines group im in, people sometimes cant hardly give away working running mechanical engines... it is of course a good sized endeavor to swap a mechanical DT466 into an RE bus that has a maxxforce DT.. but generally the subframes will just bolt in...

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

van chassis busses are in a different class as are short busses..




when i boiught my short busses no one wanted them.. people said "not enough space".. but then they began learning about how much easier an 8 window bus is to get someplace than a 12 window..

Totally Agree !!! You have Cutaway Class in taller height like Collins and many Handicap buses being 77in or so, the standard heigh 74 and then the low low daycare bus ceiling height. Then the class of shorter real bus chassis like 8 window and below, with and without handicap lifts and side doors. 3rd Class being the actual average whole big long ass route or activity bus, rare but occasionally with a rear side lift and door, and possible underbelly storage.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

for some reason I had thought the vision was a long bus.. I went back and looked and saw its a shortie.. so yes, I stand corrected, that bus could bring more $$.. i wouldnt pay anything near 8K for it.. but maybe someone would..

Yep, I figured you forgot that part about my 2010 Vision and I understand, hard to keep up with what everyone has. And I do also have the 2005 BB Vison LONG Bus with the CAT C7 NO AC or nothing. It does have Cruise Control and I thought that might be standard but I've been told NO, but yeah I love Cruise. A stripped model bus. Just a tough built Blue Bird Chassis with spring suspension, about no upgrade options. It's a good bus too though.

The 2010 Vision is the 6.7ISB Allison 2500PTS, yes, does have a bit of emissions, but they don't scare me much. MAINTENANCE IS KEY !!! And it did beat the DEF by being manufactured before 1/1/10.
It's nicely featured too, with Air Ride, Air Door that I really wish was manaul but easily converted, Flat Floors, Lift and Side Door, 77/78inch ceiling, OE Carrier AC front and rear, the type that's built into the bulkheads rather than have those ugly boxes hanging from the ceiling that turn a horrid yellowed color and hard to work around in a build. I never knew those type AC systems even existed until I see it on this bus, and it does have dual compressors and dual condensing units so each system is 100% independant of each other. I really really love that part along with that they're integrated and just blend in with the bus so no eye sore and won't get in the way of any build. I can use either one, the other or both, or if 1 fails, I at least have the other until repair can made. Of course cruise control. It is electric over hydro boosted juice 4 corner disk brakes and I don't even mind. Those brakes are great, and unlike many think, Air Brakes do require more maintenance, DO IN FACT FAIL, and have a more parts subject to failure including weather related issues. You know there's those Air brake fan boys that if it's not air brakes, is no good. Not me. I can feel just as safe with either system and I've really grown to actually like these Hydro brakes and their stopping power because both my Visions are Hydro and both stop extremely well. The 2010, I really was a bit excited when I couldn't get my brake lights to go off one night. I thought WTH is this all about? I did stop and think, well I wonder if that had to do with the fact I had the handy door open? Turned out, it sure did. And then I had noticed when I hit the brake pedal the lights went off. A few days later I was doing some literature reading on Handy buses and seen that Hydro brake Handy buses have the MICO Brake sytem solenoid and that's activated when the Handicap door is opened and why the brake lights come on. Ahhhh OK, now it all makes sense to me. And I know how a MICO brake system works since I've had it on other commercial vehicles I've operated in my years. I was really happy to learn I had a built in MICO system. If I keep the bus, I'll be wiring that up a bit different, like on a hidden mounted or unmarked toggle switch within driver's reach and may try to figure out a brake light override method. Also happy with this bus, that even though it's a Hydro Brake bus, it still has the engine mounted air compressor like an Air Brake bus has, and has air tank(s) to operate the air bags for air ride and air door. I"ll be adding quick connects for air hoses in and outside the bus, front and rear, upgrading to air seat, and adding some Hadley Air Horns I got off of a biggo honkin azz RV. So yeah, that bus has some great features, with low hours and low miles at like 132,000, so it's a good bus and I won't give it away super cheap IF I SELL IT.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

RE busses often have a following because of the quietness and less upfront heat than a front engine..



short busses are in demand now.. (I get people asking all the time if I want to sell one or the other of my short busses)..

OH yeah, I love the RE buses for the quiet and no heat up front, but I also like the power in the 8.3 and most have the MD3060 too. I can't think of a better combo for a bus. And so much room to work on them Lots of room from insdie the bus too over the top of the engine. The other huge advantage to me, is no carrier bearings, less u joints, less driveshaft balance problems and all that space under the bus without a driveshaft or exhaust pipe in your way. Those are all the reason I'd prefer a pusher over a FE bus.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

alot of people dont undersatand RV laws and buy Van chassis because they assume otherwise they need a CDL.. (many van chassis fall under the 15 seats or less).. also van chassis busses look like a traditional small motorhome so they feel its easier to drive and build out..



plus churches, daycare centers, etc will buy and run van chassis busses if they are still fully seated and just out of service.. a higher number of those are air-conditioned than full chassis school busses..

100% Correct !!!

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I still stand by my thought that the overall bus market is coming down from where it was... theres exceptions to every rule..


I wouldnt pay close to 10K for even an 02 with an 8.3 and 3060 with A/C.. ill buy a 5.9 for 5K, build the motor myself, have a fresh engine and the same power for less.. my ceiling on a 8.3 with 3060 and working A/C would be 7K..



the later Cummin s 6.7 busses will be OK emissions wise.. yeah there are issues at times.. buit these are not the C7's with 2nd gen ACERT or the Maxxforce engines.. its understandable that 08+ anything International through 15 is worthless and 08- ? CAT stuff is pretty worthless..



Mercedes and cummins generally got it right.,. Mercedes stuff often goes for CHeap because people assume the engine will cost then their life savings.. (id buy one in a heartbeat knowing what I do from a friend thats a mechanic for them)..



now old all mechanical busses do go for extremely high prices and its understandable.. some preppers want the idea of a 100% mechanical drivetrain that can work in an apocalypse.. and they are simple to work on.. I do enjoy the simplicity of my DTA360 with an MT643.. that bus just runs.. it just does.. anytime i need it to run it does.,. while i blew up the AT545 some years ago.. ive done ZERO engine work to it in 8 years.. none.. unless you count adjusting the valve tappets (I call that maintenance)..


on one hand people pay super high prices for mechanical busses, on the other hand, in the mechanical DT engines group im in, people sometimes cant hardly give away working running mechanical engines... it is of course a good sized endeavor to swap a mechanical DT466 into an RE bus that has a maxxforce DT.. but generally the subframes will just bolt in...

I totally agree again. Yes, eventually buses will come back down again and I Think for good or at least back to the norm like they were Pre 2020. See the Nomadic Movement was slowing growing, but when the manmade political pandemic of 2020 hit in an attempt to trash the POTUS along with distracting many US Citizens, and it did, it worked, but when that happened, the Nomadic Movement exploded and the bus market in all 3 classes we considered above, skyrocketed. So I do beleive the further we get away from 2020 and more and more people change back to the pre pandemic ways, then the prices will drop more and level off, but we're still lving in the GREED of 2020, like Walmarts aren't even open 24 hours now because they can't do math, and figured we need social distancing so rather than spread everyone out over a 24 hour period, let's close up and make more people come in, in an 18 hour period instead. Right? How does that make sense? So now they see the money their saving by forcing people to come in between 6am and 11pm increasing their profits with less labor hours. Someday we'll be fully recovered from that and the Nomadic Movement will slow down, instead many people will lose it all and just be homeless on streets instead of Nomads. Which brings me too, it's spreading, but there are communities, and organizations make mobile laundromats and shower facilities out of the long buses for the homeless communuties where the homeless will know when the bus will show up at which location, and they can do their laundry, get a shower, shave and haircut, and get to pick through some donated clothing items for something new to them. I like the idea really to help the misfortunate, but I think it also encourages homelessness, so take the good with the bad. I know most would prefer to take a shower in the privacy of their own home.

Geez long post. But yeah, Mercedes are not so bad but you can pick one up cheaper because everyone is scared of them. All the things said are true though. Parts aren't as available as Cummins or Navistar parts, but they can be found, and finding someone to work on them is a bit tough, but I'll say, those Mercedes are good engines and rarely fail. I know the Cummins fan boys will disagree, but Cummins fail plenty. At our tow yard, most of our fleet is Cummins, I see what goes wrong. We have 2 old trucks that have Mercedes and see they keep running and running and running, an no engine problems at all whatsoever. NONE !! They just run and run and run. We hae literally wore out the trucks, the chassis, the beds, they hyrdos, the transmissions, axles, clutches, we've wore all that out around those Mercedes engines. 1 is over 400,000 miles and is our back up truck for when one of our newer trucks is in for service, and the other we finally sold that clapped out, wore out truck with a cracked frame, at about 560,000 miles and the engine was purring right along just fine with plenty of power and no hiccups. Not saying a Mercedes can't fail, but the 2 we have/had, we can't kill. I mean, not even a sensor has gone bad, they just run and the smaller one is our best mpg truck of the whole fleet. So if I needed a bus, and it was cheap enough, I would for sure consider buying it. Where as a Maxxforce, 2007 and later, a VT365, you'd have to be selling it super cheap for me to buy it. Meaning, if I bought one, it's a parts bus. Maybe I need it for a gear rato swaps, or an AT545 upgrade to a 2000, 2500 or MD3060 ugrade, great tires maybe, windows, sheet metal, or whatever I needed for donor parts for another bus. That's the only way I'd buy one of those POS and it would have to be cheap. I've heard of people spending $8000-$10000 for a trans upgrade. Why? Buy Maxxforce bus with a bad engine $1500-$2000, now you have that Allison 2500, the TCM, the converter, wiring harness etc etc, and maybe even some good tires with a few more years left on them.

[BamaBus]

I don't know anything about a CAPS pump on a Cummins but I hear they can have problems. This 2002 8.3 was built in 7/2001 and has the CAPS system.

[Hooker]

So I won't be getting it anyway. I'll still be looking though, or I'll dive into building my 2010 Vision, and that might be the best option. The guy left me a message early this morning, he took a deposit on the bus. Hopefully noone from here after seeing my post, but anyway, he wouldn't allow me to see it until tomorrow since he was out of town so he said. I was afraid that would happen when he told me I'd have to wait 4 days to be able to go pick it up.

[Hooker]

Originally Posted by BamaBus

I don't know anything about a CAPS pump on a Cummins but I hear they can have problems. This 2002 8.3 was built in 7/2001 and has the CAPS system.

This is true, just about all models CAN HAVE problems. Just that some engine models are more likely to have problems than CAN HAVE problems.Like the Maxxforce, VT365 and BTW, the VT365 doesn't have near the problems the Powerstroke 6.0 which is the same footprint and block, but it's still not good, and the 2007 and later CAT C7 with the ARD head and common rail fuel system. Even all the better ones CAN HAVE problems. Cummins 5.9 12 Valve even has a killer dowel pin problem. 6.7ISBs can have EGR Cooler problems and love to eat up idler pulleys, The better 2003-2006 CAT C7's can have HEUI pump problems and take out your injectors. DT466's can have different problems than the DT466E problems. This is why I always suggest to people, know which engines to AVOID AT ALL COSTS, just say NO. Then the engine you do get, be sure to know it's common failures and be ready to defend or do what you can to prevent those, like on a CAT C7, to keep the HEUI pump from failing, keep your oil clean and well filtered. Maybe even add a secondary bypass upgraded filter system that's even better than the OEM system. Make sure you maintain your antifreeze properly and only use the correct antifreeze in a Cummins 6.7ISB. And keep in mind, just because someone says this is the common failures for this model engine, that doesn't mean it's common to happen. It means when and if this engine fails, these are the common reasons why it does. Many spread what they read on the internet and get scared. As I mentioned in the long long post above, Mercedes engines get a bad rep. We have/had to 2 Mercedes engines and one is over 400,000 miles, sold one at over 560,000 miles and both those engines never had problems, and still going rock solid today, but there's the nay sayers out there saying NOOOO, avoid it. Just saying, every model is going to have COMMON FAILURES, as in when and if they fail.

So my advice is, know your engine and know what you can do to avoid the COMMON FAILURES and the CAN HAVE problems to avoid those issues. Also might learn your engine and see if it's a job you can tackle yourself if and when it does happen, or get an engine you think you can tackle yourself or have a freind or relative that can help you tackle it because these engines are not cheap to have worked on.

And take what you read on social media with a grain of salt. Like CAT C7's are junk, Avoid Mercedes cuz noone will work on them. Yep, I'd avoid a 2007 and later C7, but 03-06 don't scare me. Why do you need someone to work on a Mercedes if they don't fail? That might be why there aren't any Mercedes mechanics. Like the old Maytag appliacne technician commercials. The dude never had any work. I'll use those fears to scoop up a cheap bus and I'll have a 03-06 CAT C7 cuz they are JUNK, and I'll have a Mercedes engine because noone will work on them. I'm also not afraid of the Cummins 6.7ISB and fully aware of the EGR Cooler problems and NO I WILL NOT be deleting it. Maintain your cooling system and do what you have to prevent it from clogging up, and use the correct fluids and don't mix fluid types. I once read an article and it seems to make sense. If you block off the EGR Cooler and delete it, how does the coolant circulate at the back cylinders? It'll tend to have your back cylinders running hotter than normal all the time and you won't know it because the coolant sensors are up front of the engine. So now by deleting the EGR Cooler, you have potentially just created a different problem. Now the funds you spent on a delete kit, could have been used just to replace with a new cooler and if your first one lasted 250,000 miles, then the 2nd one should too, or just take the cooler off and see about having it cleaned and put back on before it cracks. It's all about knowing what engine model you have and maintenance. Bottom Line !!!