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Old 03-20-2020, 04:58 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Bought a bus in CO. Now what??

This January I bought a bus.


The back story is perhaps somewhat interesting, but for now I'd like to lay out my current situation and ask the forum to help me brainstorm the next few steps, essentially getting the bus registered, titled, insured, etc. Yes, all questions have been asked 1000 times already. I've read forums until my eyes blur, but I've not come across any answers that are quite what I'm trying to figure out. Bear with me, please.



The bus is currently in Colorado, and I'm ultimately intending to essentially fulltime with it. I'm a legal Florida resident with a FL driver's license with CDL privileges, I have a small trailer registered and insured in FL, and a motorcycle registered and insured in WA (another long story).



My bus is a bookmobile, freshly retired from bookmobile service in CO. I still haven't seen it in person, and while I believe that all the information I received on the bus is offered in good faith, I will believe all the details when I can verify them in person. For example, I'm pretty sure there is a typo in the VIN (kind of a big deal, I know).



My job is such that most of my paychecks are independent of any state, so I pay income taxes to whatever state I'm a resident of (currently FL, which has no income tax). Since I already have an established relationship with FL, my default plan is to bring the bus to FL for title conversion, registration, etc. However, I'm open to other ideas too. I don't really have any other ties to FL that I would be unwilling to sever for the right incentive. On the other hand, since my situation already requires some serious explaining at times, I try not to muddy the waters with unnecessary casual associations with other states - hopefully that makes sense.



If any of this sounds sketchy, I can assure you that to the best of my knowledge it's all 100% by the book, even if my circumstances might be fairly uncommon. I absolutely do not want to operate in any legal gray areas. I understand why some others might not mind violating what they see as pointless laws and I can even sympathize in many cases. It's simply not for me.



Back to the point of my post. From what I've read, CO has a fairly low bar for obtaining RV conversion titles. I'm not sure how concerned I should be about getting a title conversion, but since I have the luxury of being able to choose where I take the bus when I pick it up, should I consider titling and registering it in CO (or some other state) before attempting the trip to FL? I've not been able to find it specifically referenced but I assume it won't be a major issue to obtain a trip permit from FL if I end up driving the bus from CO to FL. I would like to get all the paperwork done reasonably quickly because as soon as I pick up the bus I'd like to start basically full-time living in it, assuming that's possible (and legal). One other note on that point is that I'm not currently in FL, and I have no plans to physically go to FL before picking up the bus. Do states generally (or FL specifically) have any problem issuing trip permits electronically or through the mail, or is that something that I should expect to need to appear in person for?


Although this topic has come up over and over, I've found very few posts that offer any advice on strategically choosing which states to register/title in. And the ones that do are the retiree RV fulltimers, who generally don't have to deal with the title conversion issues like the skoolie community. Or, maybe it's simple and I'm just overthinking everything. Those who have experience in these areas, what would you suggest? I'm sure there's more I could say but this post is already long so I'll just stop here and see what discussion follows. Thanks in advance for any wisdom you all can share.
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Old 03-20-2020, 05:31 AM   #2
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Vermont does not have a residency requirement for tags/registration. That makes it nice for full timers. Plus it can be done all by mail.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:47 AM   #3
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Just bring it to FL. CO won't even mess with an out of state person buying a vehicle. CO won't even give you a temporary tag.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:20 PM   #4
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Vermont does not have a residency requirement for tags/registration. That makes it nice for full timers. Plus it can be done all by mail.

I did read through a couple threads about VT being very easy to deal with. I'll keep that in mind if for some reason FL doesn't pan out. I like being a FL resident in large part because of the income tax treatment, which I don't think I'd get in VT. But if I can't do what needs doing in FL then maybe it'll be time for a change.


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Just bring it to FL. CO won't even mess with an out of state person buying a vehicle. CO won't even give you a temporary tag.

Ok, good to know. Do you have any experience with trying to procure a temp tag or trip permit or whatever it's called from FL, especially re: whether I can do that through the mail or online?


Another question I've been wondering about is this: I bought the bus through GovDeals. I was outbid but they contacted me after the winning bidder fell through for some reason. I said I could buy it, but I'd be unavailable to retrieve the bus for several months. The seller was willing to negotiate about storing the bus for me, so we came to agreement, I made the payment, and I received the buyer's certificate. So far, that's it. It's been 2 months and it will probably be another 2 months before I can show up there. My question is, what if anything should I do beforehand to 1) meet legal requirements, 2) lean into the process so I'm not stuck waiting for paperwork when I'm ready to pick up the bus and go, and 3) protect my investment? Should I start trying to find insurance? Start trying to get a temporary registration of some kind? Do something with GovDeals or apply for a title or whatever? I've never bought a vehicle at auction or from another state before so this is all new for me. One thing that's been giving me pause is that I'm a little skeptical that even the VIN I received is correct and complete. But maybe I'm shooting my future self in the foot by waiting. Thoughts?
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:27 PM   #5
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Run the VIN you have through a VIN checker to see if it comes up, such as the one linked below:



https://www.gates.com/us/en/ymm/search/landing/vin.html


Did the seller send you the actual title, or just some proof of purchase? If it's going to be a couple months before you pick it up, you could (in theory at least) go on and title it in your name, especially if you're going through the Vermont process (which I understand is reasonably priced, easy to declare RV conversion, and valid for 2 years?) Lacking the title will sort of put things on hold, so to speak, and you'll definitely need insurance before driving, whether it's "newly acquired vehicle" on an existing policy, or something purpose bought for the bus. You do *NOT* need commercial coverage! Many of us get "Commercial Vehicle for Personal Use" at least until the conversion is done, then switch to an RV policy.


Many of us have driven home legally with nothing more than proof of insurance and proof of recent purchase (typically within the last couple weeks or 30 days). The key here is since states have reciprocity agreements, they will usually allow you to travel as long as you are compliant with your home state's rules. As an example, GA may have low financial requirements for liability insurance but NC may have higher requirements. If I drive from one through the other, they aren't going to check how much I'm insured for, only that I actually have any insurance at all, and send me on my way. By the same coin and by the same logic, if you explain "Florida allows me 30 days after purchase to register" (or whatever the Florida law requires) and you have proof of recent purchase, along with proof of insurance, you'll likely be answered with "Have a safe trip".


Govdeals probably won't handle the actual title itself, the seller should do that. This was the case for me when I bought mine from McDowell county in southern WV. In my case it was done "In Person" on the day of pickup, I checked the VIN both prior to bidding as well as on the title and on the bus (everything matched as it should) before signing anything or driving anywhere. Title transfers can be handled by mail but some sellers are reluctant to do that as mail can get lost or stolen. They also are supposed to make sure you sign and date it.
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:31 PM   #6
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you could (in theory at least) go on and title it in your name, especially if you're going through the Vermont process (which I understand is reasonably priced, easy to declare RV conversion, and valid for 2 years?)
It's one or two years depending on which you pay for. Now that my 1 year is almost up, I'm annoyed with my past self for not getting it for 2 years. I was fantasizing that I would have it completely done and converted to a PA registration in less than a year.
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:31 PM   #7
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Ok, thanks for all the input. FL is by default the state I'd try to go through unless I find out some reason that I'll be unable to use FL or it will be prohibitively difficult. I don't have a title, only a "buyer's certificate." I know I need insurance to drive home, but I typically don't insure my vehicles for comprehensive or collision, only liability and medical payments and so on. I figured if it's sitting in a parking lot there's not much risk, so I'll just cross that bridge later. On the other hand, I got to wondering if there will likely be any issue with having a gap in the insurance history if they date the transfer of ownership in January when I paid, instead of when I actually pick up the vehicle (which is what I think will work out better for me, if it's an option).


The VIN seems correct, and that VIN checker tool works great, thanks Brad. Stupid me, rather than type the VIN out I had been copy/pasting it in to the online VIN checkers, and I failed to notice that I had copied an extra space as well. I was scratching my head because I was sure I had checked the VIN myself before I bid. Oops. Anyway, here's what came back (no surprises):


Manufacturer : Bluebird
Model Year 2001
Model TC2000
Engine Series Cummins ISB Diesel
Engine Capacity L6, 5.9L (359 CID)
Fuel Type Diesel
Vehicle Details Incomplete Vehicle
Brake System -
GVWR Class 26,001-33,000Lbs
Series Shell TC2000
Country United States
Assembly Plant Fort Valley
Body Type FE - Front Engine

For any of you who has bought a bus through GovDeals, how does the transaction work? I assume I get the buyer's certificate, then I make the payment, then show up with proof of payment and buyer's certificate to take possession? When I arrive to take possession, I should get the transfer title at that point, right?
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Old 03-20-2020, 08:46 PM   #8
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I just brought home a South Carolina bus through Gov deals. I just showed up to the surplus office, made the payment with a cashier's check. Took the bill of sale into a different building and got the keys. I however was not given a title, instead I was told it would be mailed to me. Not a big issue at the time, my trip permit only required the bill of sale. Well it's been two weeks, still waiting for that title. If I don't get one by next Friday I'll be calling the surplus office or SC DMV.

There should have been instructions on either the listing itself or emailed to you when you won the auction.
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:15 PM   #9
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Interesting. I did get an email sent to me with instructions, but over email I made a different agreement with the seller, with a govdeals regional account manager included on the email chain. I did ask about getting a new set of requirements written out to reflect the new terms, but they waved it off, saying it's just a standard form. I figured I'd just go with it since I have the whole thing in email if anybody happens to forget what was agreed to. I'm sure this isn't the most ideal way to do business but hopefully it all works out eventually. As far as I can tell, the seller (a municipal library) still has possession of the vehicle, because they are the ones storing it for me (for a fee). Maybe that's an unusual situation as well. Truthseeker it sounds like you dealt 100% with GovDeals, not the previous owner at all?
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:57 PM   #10
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My bus came from the South Carolina School for The Deaf and The Blind. The school is owned by the state of South Carolina, but operates with much higher autonomy than a regular school district due to its unique mission. That said it appears all school buses in South Carolina are owned and maintained by the state instead of the school district, though the STDTB has its own maintenance shop. So when the bus was retired, it was sent to the state surplus office. This does differ from the fate of a normal South Carolina bus, which are usually cannibalized heavily then sold in large lots for scrap. The surplus office has a division that handles most of the vehicle auctions and they use GovDeals for a number of them.

As far as I know, I've only dealt with state employees and the bus was state property.
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Old 03-21-2020, 12:47 AM   #11
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Suggestion: PRINT a copy of that e-mail chain just in case.
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Old 03-21-2020, 08:08 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
Ok, thanks for all the input. FL is by default the state I'd try to go through unless I find out some reason that I'll be unable to use FL or it will be prohibitively difficult. I don't have a title, only a "buyer's certificate." I know I need insurance to drive home, but I typically don't insure my vehicles for comprehensive or collision, only liability and medical payments and so on. I figured if it's sitting in a parking lot there's not much risk, so I'll just cross that bridge later. On the other hand, I got to wondering if there will likely be any issue with having a gap in the insurance history if they date the transfer of ownership in January when I paid, instead of when I actually pick up the vehicle (which is what I think will work out better for me, if it's an option).

The insurance history gap shouldn't pose a problem, since this is a newly purchased vehicle. If any questions are asked, simply explain the vehicle was awaiting pickup between the purchase date and coverage date (they'll want to ensure it was not on the road, basically). But yes, if you can get the date written as the day you actually pick up the vehicle, that will probably make things a little easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
The VIN seems correct, and that VIN checker tool works great, thanks Brad. Stupid me, rather than type the VIN out I had been copy/pasting it in to the online VIN checkers, and I failed to notice that I had copied an extra space as well. I was scratching my head because I was sure I had checked the VIN myself before I bid. Oops. Anyway, here's what came back (no surprises):

Don't feel bad, you're not the only one to copy/paste an extra space in a VIN! Glad that's sorted at least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
For any of you who has bought a bus through GovDeals, how does the transaction work? I assume I get the buyer's certificate, then I make the payment, then show up with proof of payment and buyer's certificate to take possession? When I arrive to take possession, I should get the transfer title at that point, right?

Every state, county, city, and seller has their own way of doing things. Some states do not require titles for government owned vehicles. They should give you *Something* so you can title and register the bus. Some auctions may state that no title(s) will be available, the buyer will receive a certificate of destruction instead (this is usually for "scrap only" type sales) or a bill of sale/court paperwork (for instances where a title is lost, or otherwise not available such as seized cars).



In my case, I was emailed a buyer's certificate from Govdeals, I took this with me to pick up the bus (I can't remember if it was even looked at), payment was made through Govdeals as I remember, when I arrived to actually pick up the bus, I checked everything out and the title was signed at that time. I left with a bus, a signed title, and whatever paperwork (and proof of insurance) I brought from home. At that time, GA offered temp permits (they have since stopped doing this for private sales) and I had one with me so I placed it in the back window and headed on down the road.
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Old 03-25-2020, 09:08 PM   #13
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Brad, thanks for your insights. It gives me a better idea of what to expect when the time comes.



Using the correct VIN I got a quite reasonable insurance quote from Progressive online. They wouldn't accept a converted school bus but as this is not a school bus it seems I'm able to sidestep an issue that many skoolie-builders seem to run across in the search for insurance. If I ever have to file a claim I won't be surprised if I get some pushback because it sure looks like a converted school bus but I'll deal with that if the time comes. I think I can make a more-than-reasonable case that it is not, and never was, a school bus. They did ask me to self-certify that it has fresh water tanks, sleeping arrangements, a toilet, refrigerator, cooking facility, 110V electrical power, and maybe something else I'm forgetting. The photos from the auction show what look like commercial 48"-ish tube-style fluorescent light fixtures on the ceiling so I assume the 12kW generator provides 110VAC in its current form but maybe not. For the other stuff I'll have to make sure I install temporary versions first thing when I pick up the bus.
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Old 03-27-2020, 06:30 PM   #14
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A word of caution:

I bought my bus through Govdeals. The auction closed the week prior to Thanksgiving. I emailed and called the seller regarding pickup. We exchanged several emails and came to the agreement that it would be best for .both of us to wait until after the holiday.

I showed up and picked up the bus as agreed.

I got home to find that Govdeals suspended my account and sent me a bill for some ridiculous amount for failing to complete the transaction.

I called and emailed them. I forwarded the email chain showing that I had complied with the pickup arrangements I had made with the seller. I encouraged GD to contact the seller and verify. They refused and would not yield a bit.

So..... I had to set up a new account using a different email and short version of my first name. Since then I have made three purchases on GD without issue.

What completely caught me off guard was the NASTY attitude that the woman (not Lady) from GD had. She has no business dealing with the public with an attitude like that.
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:16 PM   #15
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That is troubling and certainly disappointing. I had some concerns about that because after we agreed to a modified pickup schedule the papers they asked me to sign still laid out the original timeline and consequences for failing to comply. I asked about it but basically the response was "that's just standard wording, don't worry about it." Normally I am pretty unyielding about not signing things unless I can agree to 100% of it, but this time I broke my own rule. Now you have me worried again!


On the positive side, there was a guy on the email chain the whole time whose email is "...@govdeals.com" and his email signature title is "...Client Account Manager" so hopefully he's a GovDeals employee and will record the necessary changes. He's been nothing but friendly and he did reach out to me again to touch base. I'm sorry you had an issue PNW_Steve, but hopefully my experience will be a little better. Either way I'll let the forum know how it plays out.
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Old 03-28-2020, 12:11 AM   #16
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Not sure it will make a difference to you, but worth noting that the Colorado DMV is closed until April 20th.

https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dmv...res-and-delays
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Old 03-28-2020, 03:18 AM   #17
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Thanks Ennonne, good to know. If things go how I intend them to, I won't deal with the CO DMV at all. And I probably won't be able to attempt to pick the bus up until sometime in May anyway.
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:12 PM   #18
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My wife is from South Dakota. She says it is a mailbox state. Buy a mailbox and transfer everything.
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Old 03-30-2020, 03:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmon View Post
I did read through a couple threads about VT being very easy to deal with. I'll keep that in mind if for some reason FL doesn't pan out. I like being a FL resident in large part because of the income tax treatment, which I don't think I'd get in VT. But if I can't do what needs doing in FL then maybe it'll be time for a change.





Ok, good to know. Do you have any experience with trying to procure a temp tag or trip permit or whatever it's called from FL, especially re: whether I can do that through the mail or online?


Another question I've been wondering about is this: I bought the bus through GovDeals. I was outbid but they contacted me after the winning bidder fell through for some reason. I said I could buy it, but I'd be unavailable to retrieve the bus for several months. The seller was willing to negotiate about storing the bus for me, so we came to agreement, I made the payment, and I received the buyer's certificate. So far, that's it. It's been 2 months and it will probably be another 2 months before I can show up there. My question is, what if anything should I do beforehand to 1) meet legal requirements, 2) lean into the process so I'm not stuck waiting for paperwork when I'm ready to pick up the bus and go, and 3) protect my investment? Should I start trying to find insurance? Start trying to get a temporary registration of some kind? Do something with GovDeals or apply for a title or whatever? I've never bought a vehicle at auction or from another state before so this is all new for me. One thing that's been giving me pause is that I'm a little skeptical that even the VIN I received is correct and complete. But maybe I'm shooting my future self in the foot by waiting. Thoughts?
As another person mentioned, VT has no residency requirement and it can all be done by mail. Ruth and I are residents of New Mexico. We are full timers. We spend most of the year in New Mexico. Pay taxes in New Mexico, and have our bus registered in VT. Neither New Mexico or VT have a problem with it. We also often pull a trailer with NM plates.
Perhaps you are over complicating your decision? Just take the path of least hassles. We found that to be VT. New Mexico wanted a lot of work done before they would register as RV but would not register as commercial for private use. So we either had to be a school, transport company, or agricultural business. All VT wanted was a bill of sale an a check. No brainer for us. Also could be good for you because it can take a month or so for VT to issue plates. Send your application in now an pay VT tag fee and sales tax. By the time you are ready to pick up you have your tags.
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Old 04-01-2020, 08:22 AM   #20
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I'm generally familiar with the idea of using one of the states known to be easy to deal with, especially amongst the full-time crowd. I hear you guys, it might be the lowest bar, especially considering the constraints I've already mentioned. From my understanding, Florida is also one of the states many fulltimers seem to prefer using too.

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Perhaps you are over complicating your decision?
Haha, I'd say that's probably accurate. And truth be told, I'd rather mull it all over and hear all the opinions now while I'm forced to wait anyways, rather than try to make something come together while I'm on a tight schedule. The way this virus thing is shaping up, it looks like I might be stuck waiting even longer than I'd planned before my first opportunity to go pick it up. I'm fortunate to be stuck at work, saving up more bus conversion money. I know many others are not so fortunate, and I can't imagine the hardships and stresses some people must be facing through all this.

Once I have an idea of my timeline, I will try to contact some of these states and see what they can tell me. As you say, Rock-N-Ruth, I might be over complicating things, so it probably behooves me to find out whether there is a clear path available with Florida (still my first choice, all things being equal). If there is, I don't see a need to go through one of the mailbox states. But, I'll keep all these suggestions in mind.
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