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Old 07-22-2021, 10:24 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by john61ct View Post
google it, California Air Resources Board
Senate Bill 210 signed into law September 2019, starts kicking in 2023,
others much stricter starting in 2024
Summary: https://www.rvtravel.com/california-...ssions-testing
Start a new thread to discuss what you find
As I suspected, SB 210 has nothing to do with banning anyone. It has to do with ensuring that the heavy vehicle NOx and PM emission control systems are working correctly and are maintained.

"CARB is now undertaking efforts to develop a HD I/M program to ensure that emissions control systems on heavy-duty vehicles are properly functioning and remain low-emitting throughout their entire operating life."

This is no different than smog inspection requirements on passenger vehicles. If your car is not working properly from an emissions standpoint you have to fix it.

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Old 07-22-2021, 10:35 PM   #102
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Again, out of state registered vehicles will be required to get the emissions certificate.

Maybe if the penalty is just a cheap ticket many RVers will risk it, we'll see.
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Old 07-22-2021, 10:37 PM   #103
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Again, out of state registered vehicles will be required to get the emissions certificate. Maybe if the penalty is just a cheap ticket many RVers will risk it, we'll see.
That is not a sure thing yet. It is still yet to be seen if RV's will be exempted. And anyway, if you drive a diesel vehicle there should be no exceptions to your maintaining the emissions control system anyway. You play, you pay. Not doing so is irresponsible.
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Old 07-23-2021, 07:53 AM   #104
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Please ask questions rather than making statements if you don't even know the basics.

The feds have no jurisdiction except over over COMMERCIAL use vehicles.

States are 95% in charge, but some tax and emissions enforcement issues vary more locally.

> if a state can refuse to retitle/register a vehicle from another state

other than CA diesel issues, so far they do not, except for obvious blatant public safety issues

> semi truck out there register cheaply as a motorhome in VT

commercial use, CDL, totally different arena

The color & signs laws should be complied with, just to avoid attracting LEO attention.
What don't I know the basics of? That the fed is a quagmire of laws to follow? You really want to argue against that?

You can find this at the bottom of page 2 Here

"RV's are vehicles, intended and built for use and movement on the nation's highways, and they are subject to the jurisdiction and regulations of the Department of Transportation's(DOT) National Highway Transportation Safety Administration(NHTSA)."

That reads like the fed HAS jurisdictions to me, but I'm sure you're more intelligent. Do they have to meet the same rules as a commercial vehicle? No. Are they still governed by the federal government? I'd say yes, what about you?

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That is not a sure thing yet. It is still yet to be seen if RV's will be exempted. And anyway, if you drive a diesel vehicle there should be no exceptions to your maintaining the emissions control system anyway. You play, you pay. Not doing so is irresponsible.
In the other 49, your vehicle only has to meet the emissions laws of when it was manufactured. In CA, your vehicle will have to meet the current emissions laws, regardless of when it was manufactured.

Diesel power vehicles have been around for a century. The only vehicles that are equipped with emissions systems that will meet the current standards are at most a little older then a decade. So 90+ years of diesel engines won't meet the standards, and won't be allowed into CA, unless retrofitted with devices for them to meet modern standards.

RV's are such a small share of the pollution in CA, that they'll likely be exempt, much like the racing crowd is. But if the state would decide not to exempt them, there is likely very little that small group could do about it.
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Old 07-23-2021, 08:12 AM   #105
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And anyway, if you drive a diesel vehicle there should be no exceptions to your maintaining the emissions control system anyway.
They're talking about changing the rules in regards to diesels manufactured prior to many of these requirements. These "modern" emissions systems are one of if, not the most common causes for engine failure in diesel power trains. I can't think of a single million-mile engine with these systems onboard...


Eventually EVs will make this a thing of the past, but in the meanwhile its painful for anyone who owns a diesel. Not everyone has deep pockets to tolerate bad emissions design.


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You play, you pay.
No, you pay regardless of whether you get to play. Seems to me there was a phrase for that... "taxation without... ".

Its highly doubtful this is at all legal... The CA legislature will try whatever it thinks it can get away with knowing the local judiciary have been thoroughly vetted to be in-line with them, ready to put their rubber-stamp on whatever case comes up as a result. The 9th circuit is the most overturned in the country, but even getting overturned, rights delayed are rights denied.
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Old 07-23-2021, 10:55 AM   #106
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My understanding is RVs have explicitly not been exempted.

And 2010 is the cutoff to be eligible for testing.

Obviously, non-complying vehicles can simply just avoid visiting CA.
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:22 AM   #107
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This place is full of opinions, mostly uninformed. Waste of time to argue them, especially when people are not reading the law or the comments on the CARB website. The decision on exempting RV's is still under consideration. This is not opinion, it's fact, not subject to debate. The outcome is the only thing subject to debate and at the moment, any prediction of outcome is like talking to the gypsy down the road. It's ALL pointless speculation.

Making the law retroactive for vehicles that were produced before modern emissions systems were introduced will run afoul of several issues, such as the commerce clause of the constitution and the fact that commercial vehicle regulation falls under federal jurisdiction and in any pissing contest between a state and the feds, the feds win. Federal laws supersede state laws. This has long been settled in many court cases. It would also put a huge crimp on commercial goods distribution in the state, which would run afoul of the residents of the state.

Other things would be impacted too, such as revenue at state parks. Owners at RV parks would most likely see their income decimated. As the RVIA states on their web site, "Many out-of-state owners would opt to vacation in other states if this draconian regulation were in place against all diesel motorhomes." This would have a cascading effect all through the part of the economy in California that caters to these temporary visitors.

NONE of this is unknown to the state regulators and I bet they are getting an earful from citizens and companies all over the state. This is why all the sources of info on this issue state the issue of exempting RV's is under consideration. My prediction is that the exemption will be put in place. But if your RV is smoking like a Texas BBQ, you will still likely be pulled over by state troopers.

And there is something RV owners can do if CA decides to act stupid -- we boycott the state. There are 49 other states that we can go to, and most of them have water.
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:49 AM   #108
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The counties in California which do not require smog check are El Dorado, Riverside, Placer, San Diego, San Bernardino, and Sonoma.

The planets that are not effected by emissions are Mars, Venus, and Uranus.

California has plenty of people living here, financially, we don't need you to visit.
Instead you need to keep visiting Facebook and Google and Amazon websites instead.
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Old 07-23-2021, 11:57 AM   #109
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The counties in California which do not require smog check are El Dorado, Riverside, Placer, San Diego, San Bernardino, and Sonoma.

The planets that are not effected by emissions are Mars, Venus, and Uranus.

California has plenty of people living here, financially, we don't need you to visit.
Instead you need to keep visiting Facebook and Google and Amazon websites instead.
The rest of the country would probably not miss you much if the big one hit and vaporized the state, but you already know that, don't you? Yes, of course you do. As to finances, I'm sure you're doing well with about 20% of your population living below the poverty line.

Oh, and by the way, for the neuron-challenged non-scientist in you, Venus is the way it is specifically because of the emissions trapped in its atmosphere. Put that in Uranus.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:05 PM   #110
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and another possibly constructive thread locked in 3.2.1.......
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:09 PM   #111
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and another possibly constructive thread locked in 3.2.1.......
+1


(Not you Booyah): There's really no reason for the ad-hominem, taunting, or characterizations of what others have said here. Doesn't matter if you disagree, doesn't matter if you think the "facts" are on your side.
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Old 07-23-2021, 12:53 PM   #112
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...doesn't matter if you think the "facts" are on your side.
Actually, it does matter. We learned that by what we had to endure from 2017 to 2020. Disagreements based on facts can be resolved and people can agree to disagree, but people are not entitled to take their opinions and speculations and try to dress them up as facts.

The bottom line is that things related to our projects and dreams are very much in flux. This is an area where regulation is still nebulous and inconsistent, and the useless, busybody bureaucrats don't like that. That is why we need to cut them off at the knees and not let them stick their grimy paws into our business. We do that by getting involved in the process and letting them know in no uncertain terms that there will be political and other consequences if they stick their noses where they shouldn't be.
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Old 07-23-2021, 08:02 PM   #113
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Bottom line


I don't care what some Executive branch agency writes the Constitution requires such draconian BS to be Legislated by the Legislative Branch, Signed and enforced by teh Executive branch, and survive Judicial branch review.


CARB can write whatever they want and think whatever they want. If they piss off the wrong people they'll be in court defending their BS and hopefully get tehir behinds handed to them.



Besides, who wants to go to that cesspool anyway? I escaped in 2004 and aside from my mother and sister have no have no ties there and avoid it like the plague. Mom won't leave but she's 82. Sis will as soon as mom's gone. My brother.....WHO?


May California rot until such time that the rats turn on each other and become extinct.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:26 PM   #114
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Dude, you need to chill. You show up out of nowhere and get all Trumpy. Go back to where you came from.
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Old 07-23-2021, 09:37 PM   #115
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"Trumpy"


WOW
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Old 07-24-2021, 12:44 AM   #116
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well since we’re running this one in to the dirt, today I feel real Trumpy
Bus on!
PS today I wore red.
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Old 07-24-2021, 03:43 AM   #117
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Lol funny.. california has long cost peeps a bunch of money.. ever since the 70s they forced auto makers to build them special cars…

Only thing that state has going for it is the men are hot in SoCal but they really don’t like my red bus there so I’ll spend my $$ elsewhere
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Old 07-24-2021, 04:40 AM   #118
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Lol. A friend of mine just bought a place in Palm Desert and says he’s got a 50’ rv pad on the side of the driveway for my bus anytime we’re coming to visit, not sure he’s cleared that with the HOA crew yet. And ya that place seemed to have its fair share of the “hot guys”
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Old 07-24-2021, 08:00 AM   #119
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SoCal doesn't have a monopoly on hot guys, that's all just Hollywood-style camera tricks and special effects. In the meantime, can we jet back across the country and return to the Vermont matter? Every time California comes up in a topic it generates too much 'passion' on both sides.

Speaking to the matter of what state you reside versus what state a vehicle is registered, I know this issue comes up frequently for military service members and their families. Many times you can be moved frequently to the point that you would end up paying for annual registrations repeatedly for the same time period because many states don't prorate or reciprocate other states' registration fees. Therefore there's usually a carveout for active military to retain their official state of residence plates longer than the stated transfer period although that's not to say that its flawless. If you do still end up transferring your registration there's often still a late penalty for not doing so within the time period prescribed but at least that let's you 'use up' the time frame of the other state's active and valid registration first. It also doesn't shield you from LEO harassment. Local law enforcement around military bases don't usually behave in this manner but once you venture away to explore the rest of the state many other jurisdictions as well as state police/highway patrols seek out and target out of state plates because its easy money. Only after pulling you over and learning you're military do they usually change their tune and probably actually sympathetic as many LEOs are former military themselves. Based on my sister's experiences living in 9 states over my brother-in-law's 20+ years of service she feels like she was often pulled over more frequently than justified but usually treated much better as soon as she explained they'd moved for the military. Only once did the officer still give her guff about not transferring within the time frame but even then it was just a verbal admonishment so he probably never served in the military and grasped the scope if the issue.

Another similar situation seems like it would be related to snowbirds and where they spend half the year in their RV in another state but that's not necessarily their official state of residence. Florida registers roughly half of all the motorhomes in the entire United States but that's not to say all those owners call Florida home. Vice versa I've not heard of anyone being harassed in Florida for out of state plates because anyone who's ever driven in Florida knows at least half the vehicles on Florida roads have non-Florida plates.

It seems to me the only people making a big deal out of this are states which actively target and extort as much money as possible out of their residents (CA and NY are the main two I know of) and law enforcement agencies whose primary goal is fundraising instead of public safety. As a truck driver there are states I have always been loathe to travel because they like targeting certain carriers, mostly with an eye towards finding any excuse to conduct in-depth inspections which can yield more fines for their legalized extortion scheme. I sat in one truck inspection states for over an hour while he poured over my truck, my logs, my BoLs, until he finally threw them all back at me in disgust and told me to get outte there because he couldn't find a single thing to cite me for doing/having wrong. Wasted my time and his but at least he got none of my money for his efforts.

And this is the situation I think skoolies will find themselves in, if not already then soon based on the way things are going. Its an unconventional vehicle right off the bat so it attracts attention. Then the out-of-state plate is going to be bait for these unscrupulous agencies which pad their bloated budgets off the backs of out-of-towners. Once they have you pulled over, the discrepancy between the vehicle registration and your driver's license prompted more in-depth inquiry and they like to use entrapment schemes in their questions to justify unconstitutional searches. At this point you're the mouse dangling by its tail in the paws of the lion because he's just looking for something to cite as a violation either for profit or for further justification to impound the vehicle, just depends on his personal views and hangups. If you drive away with a handful of tickets you're probably lucky. The Patriot Act level bullsh*t even local cops use to justify these unconstitutional acts is sanctioned by the lack of patriotism and frankly lack of backbone in most of America today that thinks steamrolling citizens' rights is a justifiable price for national security. It doesn't matter if Vermont or any other state provides a 'loophole' or whether its discontinued, the bigger issue as I see it is the almost gulag-like conditions we're living in and that's been especially apparent in the last ~2 years as we've seen how willingly people will board themselves up in their own homes for fear of catching a flu all because some unelected bureaucrat tells them to be afraid. I'm sorry but America died shortly after 9/11 and we're still just waiting for the post-mortem. Welcome to the Occupied States of America.

Sorry but not sorry for the rant.
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Old 07-24-2021, 11:38 AM   #120
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Sehnsucht
Thank you, very well said.
Frustration level warranted, no rant taken.
Cheers

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