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Old 11-27-2020, 08:13 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Logistics when someone else picks up your bus?

Someone offered to pick up a bus I am buying in New Mexico and drive it to Florida for me (~ 27 hr drive on google maps). They quoted $600-800 (and I imagine this is in addition to fuel and airfare to NM and from FL). It seems pretty reasonable to me, especially given the pandemic, so I would like to take them up on this offer.


However, I'm concerned about the logistics. The bus is being sold by a private seller. How can I minimize the risk to myself, in terms of the title? I won't be there to sign it. It doesn't seem smart to, say, wire the seller the money and have him give the bus and a seller-signed title to my driver. Couldn't the driver just take off? Do I have to put that trust in the driver, or is there a safer way to do this?


Also for insurance - is it possible for me to get one of those temp 30 day policies for a different driver?

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Old 11-27-2020, 11:14 PM   #2
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Can't find one closer?
Are you buying it sight unseen? not going to fly out to see it and do transaction?
You can get title fedex to you. Note they can still disappear with your bus even without a title, see vermont registration thing..so you need full info on the driver to sue if it comes to that, photo to drivers license, etc.
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Old 11-28-2020, 04:30 AM   #3
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The sort of thing you're worried about has been happening a lot lately to people who are moving out of major cities - either they're trying to save money or for whatever reason they're choosing to use unaccredited household movers who then disappear with their entire worldly goods never to be seen again or before delivery demand huge payments to return said goods. This is why it's always better to use an accredited company that is licensed, bonded and insured but you pay for that peace of mind. If you know this proxy driver personally that's one thing but if this is just some random stranger who you found on Craigslist or something I don't even know how you begin to get enough assurance that they won't pull a Houdini with your bus. I would also think the seller may be less comfortable handing over the property to an unfamiliar third party not to mention the complications indicated about handling the title transfer and properly insuring the bus for that long trip. Cheese_wagon has plenty of experience delivering buses to tell you it's also the unforeseen circumstances along the way that require someone who isn't just going to bail and abandon the bus or demand much more compensation if the trip encounters complications such as a breakdown.
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Old 11-28-2020, 07:12 AM   #4
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Seems a situation of inexpensive faith or paid assurance. Economical middle ground? A knowledgeable driver that a whole community knows well, like Cheese Waggon. He would certainly find any unknowns while performing his well used preinspectoin checklist. May even negotiate free fluids or repairs prior to departure. Lowering the risk of tow a or repair on the way home. $$ earned. Assurance, you will find him on this site.
Usually you get what you pay for,
unless you get scammed.
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Old 11-28-2020, 07:34 AM   #5
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therres a couple things you can do.. people can and do buy sight unseen all the time.. all the auction busses are generally bought and paid for before the new owner sees them..



I bought A bus in oregon and even though I myself drove it from there to ohio, the paper work was done before I picked it up.



the money was wired via a nice secure service, the signed title was Fed-Exed to me where i could look it over and have the DMV look at it as well. all checked out so I flew out and got the bus..



if theft of property is a concern then buy / ship a small GPS tracker to the seller to have mounted to the bus before the driver gets there.. you can see where your bus goes.
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Old 11-28-2020, 03:07 PM   #6
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Thank you all for your responses, some really great info here. I agree, it seems like I'm paying cheap for high risk, so I am re-thinking this idea and will likely get the bus myself. Plus, I will get to have the memorable white-knuckle experience of driving the bus home.
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Old 11-28-2020, 04:39 PM   #7
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To be perfectly honest, I will clarify that I have moved one bus previously, set to pick up and move another next week pending insurance, perhaps a third (or fourth, pending sale and arrangements).

However, I do have a tick over four years of over-the-road trucking experience to the tune of about 400,000 miles, in all types of weather and conditions (I do shut down ASAP when it is icy, but it does sneak up on you at times), with a zero DOT accident and body count. And a tractor-trailer requires a bit more driving skill and attention to the task at hand, as they are longer, heavier and taller, with little to no improvement in braking and handling.

Also, in regard to the bus previously mentioned, that previous experience saved that bus' new owners a lot of money, as the bus developed a mechanical problem (1200 miles into a 1700-mile trip), that was beforehand unknown as a common issue, and knowing when to stop and seek repairs was the difference between a $7,000 camshaft replacement / tow and a $20,000 engine replacement / tow.

The new owners elected to pick the bus up and chance driving it the remaining 500 miles themselves, mostly in the interests of saving money after the unexpected repair. And I'm sure they will tell you that said repair was not a result of my operation -- it is a by-now well-known common issue with Cummins 8.3s with over 9,000 hrs of run time -- the reason I tell many people to verify engine hours -- miles don't tell the whole story.

I have been toying with the idea of setting up a tracking app (Life360 or something similar) on my phone so that potential 'clients', as it were, could actually track their bus, see where it is, whether it is moving, perhaps even how fast it is moving (I have noticed GPS speed readings are never dead-on accurate, though they are close), but I never drive over the speed limit, though on long hills the vehicle's weight will take over somewhat.

I might add that while I certainly don't want to ooga-booga anyone into hiring me or anyone else, there is a lot to know about the operation of these vehicles in the interest of your safety and everyone else's. Also, the simple fact remains that if the vehicle has a rated seating capacity of 16 or more (requires Class C minimum with P endorsement) or has a GVWR exceeding 26,000 lbs (requires Class B), the vehicle therein technically requires a CDL. DOT rule does not distinguish its current or intended use. Any pass given by an officer on this is just that -- a PASS.

School buses (still in service as such) are exempt from weigh / inspection stations, however, that exemption ends when the markings are sprayed over and the stop arm / red-amber lights are deactivated. It is, in fact, a passenger bus at that point, and is subject to any DOT rule / regulation that applies up until the moment the seats have been removed AND the bus has been recertified as no longer usable for that purpose (pending inspection by state police or DMV). And until retitled as MOTORHOME or RV, a vehicle with a GVWR over 26,000 lbs will still require a Class B, even retitled as a VAN or TRUCK.

As has been discussed elsewhere here, some have shared their stories of not being stopped, or not being cited if they were. But the reality is that licensing requirements are what they are for a reason, and the law says that law enforcement CAN issue citations and even impound the vehicle and/or detain the driver if they are not commercially licensed. Whether they DO or not is solely at the discretion of the officer. Operating a qualifying commercial vehicle without a commercial license is a $2500 ticket. And if that ticket is the result of an accident, God help you.

I can tell you that if asked to do so, I will to the best of my ability ensure that your bus will arrive, it will arrive in one piece, and will not be the worse for wear, as I take care to stay well within the limits of the equipment. Which is to say I will not necessarily push your bus to a 75 mph speed limit just because I think it can. If it is comfortable and safe at 70, so be it, but that is my max, and I'll only do that if the bus can safely do so and is in a 75-80 mph zone (rare, but they do exist). Not so much to be driving 70 mph, but driving 63 in a 75 or 80 mph zone is inviting a serious accident.

Generally, in a 55 zone, I might do 50. 60, I might do 58. 65, I might do 60-62. 70, I might do 63 max. Even that depends on whether the mechanicals can safely do so without overspeeding the engine. I absolutely will not push a diesel past 2200 rpm, regardless of what it may be rated, and if I don't think 2200 is safe, I cruise at what I feel is safe for the bus' setup.
I also know things to look for to prevent expensive breakdowns and tow bills, such as planning routes around areas hit by hurricanes to avoid contaminated fuel, for example.

Example: The 2004 IC I am staging to transport has the T444E with Allison 2000 and a 5.29 rear gear with 37-inch tires (all verified as much as possible through dealer). My sources indicate that while this bus can do 65, possibly even 70-75, it will be in the upper limits of the dealer-spec 2600 governed rpm, above what I feel is best for the engine. 2200 gives 62-63 with the current info available, and that is what I plan to do.

I also am willing to help new owners along in learning what they need to know for safe operation, some driving lessons, etc., if you are willing to get a CDL Class B permit (would be required to do so on public roads until the bus is stripped and retitled as a motorhome or RV). A standard CDL course would cost about $3000 or more, I am willing to do this for a daily rate that would be far less. Such instruction will greatly reduce your chances of making a mistake that will get you stopped, or perish the thought, having an accident. Not to toot my own horn, but if I can parallel park a 70-foot tractor-trailer, I can certainly teach someone to drive a bus.

These buses are quite top-heavy, even compared to a tractor-trailer, and a moment's inattention can seriously injure or even kill. For anyone who's never driven such vehicles, the braking, turning and handling can be quite overwhelming. As I said, there is a lot to know, especially in situations that can sneak up on you and require split-second decisions that only experience and quick thinking / action can assist in. Even one low bridge or tight turn can be a major problem. These are just a few of the situations that experience in driving such vehicles can help avoid.

While I think OP would be well served to explore their options, and I certainly think I cut a good deal to folks who need my services (most of what I estimate is expenses), it ultimately is their decision, though I would not recommend anyone who has never driven a commercial vehicle do so without a minimum of basic training, so as to know what to do in various situations, as has been discussed. I feel I would be doing anyone a disservice in not making others aware of this.
I can only ask the question, why take chances?
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Old 11-28-2020, 05:41 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Thank you for the thoughtful response. If I'm being honest (hopefully I don't get tar & feathered on this forum for saying so) I personally think it's insane that people, such as myself, are legally allowed to drive some of these 40ft air-brake-equipped buses with no prior training or certifications, just so long as they unbolt a few seats first. So, I totally hear you. I wonder if you'd be up for some on-site CDL-style lessons in NM next week, prior to my drive home. PM me if so.
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:09 PM   #9
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I respectfully disagree with Cheese-Wagon's assertion that driving a retired bus home requires a Commercial Driver's License. While I'll agree with many other of his valid points, especially those regarding safety, knowledge and skills, I'd like to reference the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations, section 382.107
"Commercial Motor Vehicle means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the vehicle
(1)(Paraphrasing) is over 26000 GVWR and tows a trailer over 10000 GVWR
(2)(Paraphrasing) is over 26000 GVWR
(3) Is designed to transport 16 or more passengers, including the driver, or

(4) (Paraphrasing) is transporting enough Hazardous Materials to require placarding.

Now, I won't deny many buses meet criteria 2 and/or 3, but the biggest key factor here is that *NONE OF US ARE USING THEM FOR COMMERCE* (this does not apply to anyone who is in fact using their bus for commerce, and will need appropriate licensing). Now, states will vary on whether you'll need a Class B for a vehicle over 26K GVWR (and keep in mind, many states do offer/require non-CDL's for various criteria, RV's, farms, and other private uses). So the assertion of needing a Class B may be correct in many states. The Passenger endorsement *IS NOT* required when transporting an empty bus, as per section 383.3 Q&A, Question 3:
https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/title49/part/383

Honestly, the vast majority of enforcement officers, upon learning your bus is a recent purchase and is destined for RV conversion, will not bother you any further, as long as there's no obvious reason for them to (unsafe conditions such as dangerous tires, no lights, broken windshield, you get the idea.)
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:21 PM   #10
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BSF is correct in quoting the FMCSA code, however, it must be considered that current or intended use is irrelevant, especially with an officer that is strictly by the book and gives no leniency.

A Class B driver CAN be ticketed for driving a road tractor even without a trailer due to the tractor's capability of towing a trailer over 10k. And BSF, no offense, but as a professional driver, you know as well as I do that the vehicle's capabilities as currently equipped can and will come into play as determining factor as to whether a citation is issued. Because there's nothing stopping the vehicle from being used to its abilities regardless of the driver's qualifications. Just as there's nothing stopping someone from using a decommissioned school bus that still has its seats as a shuttle bus without proper permits and insurance, at least until they're stopped. 'Vast majority' means 'discretion', and not every officer will be understanding.

Quite frankly, what you are saying is tantamount to saying it's perfectly fine for 17-year-old Brittany to get behind the wheel of a 45-foot Prevost just because it's been titled as an RV, and let her have at it. And I think that's just a tad reckless. You and I have both had to have training to operate vehicles over 26,000-lbs, and I'm honestly surprised that you would okay someone who's never driven anything bigger than a Honda Civic to just hop in their new-to-them Blue Bird and drive it home with no experience or training at all. What happens when they kill someone because of an 'oopsie' that crushes a minivan into a telephone pole?

As for being cited, I have never said it WILL happen. I have said it CAN happen. And it CAN. Regardless of current usage, if an accident occurs, and the driver is found to be improperly or inadequately licensed or even trained, God help them. I would never encourage anyone previously untrained to simply hop into a 32,000-lb GVWR Blue Bird and drive it home with no knowledge or understanding of how to handle and drive the vehicle.

I'm not saying that every cop on the highway is stopping every bus they see. What I am saying is that they have got you by the short and curlies if they do and find that you are neither trained nor licensed to operate the vehicle. Regardless of whether it would hold up in court, any such driver could still be cited, possibly detained / jailed and the vehicle towed / impounded until the judge throws it out of court (how likely would THAT be?). I am simply saying that this is not something people want to play with.

It would be like getting a ticket for rolling a stop sign in your car. You still get the ticket, you still have to go to court. If you were stopped and written for an expired or suspended license in your car, you could be jailed in addition to the vehicle being towed / impounded. Similar rules apply here. Regardless of whether it gets thrown out of court, it doesn't mean an officer won't do it. And some with a Napoleon complex and something to prove will do it just because they think they can. Like I said, why take the chance?
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
.....Quite frankly, what you are saying is tantamount to saying it's perfectly fine for 17-year-old Brittany to get behind the wheel of a 45-foot Prevost just because it's been titled as an RV, and let her have at it. And I think that's just a tad reckless. You and I have both had to have training to operate vehicles over 26,000-lbs, and I'm honestly surprised that you would okay someone who's never driven anything bigger than a Honda Civic to just hop in their new-to-them Blue Bird and drive it home with no experience or training at all. What happens when they kill someone because of an 'oopsie' that crushes a minivan into a telephone pole?.....

In some (many?) states, that may actually be legal assuming the Prevost is an RV. Being "legal" and safe, sane, and advisable are different matters, and to your point I entirely agree. And some states have responded to that by requiring Class B licenses (CDL, or non-CDL, depending on the state) for such large RV's. Oh, and transport one of these for a company, from factory to dealer, or dealer to customer? That actually does put said driver in Class B CDL territory, since (s)he *IS* getting paid for driving said vehicle, and a business presumably is making money one way or another.
Personally, I feel that anyone driving such a large vehicle should have some training and pass an appropriate test for a Class B, but I don't make the rules.
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:44 PM   #12
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Driving a bus on the freeway is not complicated.
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
Personally, I feel that anyone driving such a large vehicle should have some training and pass an appropriate test for a Class B, but I don't make the rules.
Regardless of the 'rules', I respectfully state that going with the flow just because we don't make the rules is reckless. I look at it this way, it could just as easily be you or me that gets crushed into a telephone pole or the side of a building by an inexperienced driver in such a vehicle. It's dangerous, you admit as such. Just because you COULD, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

I'm simply trying to help people avoid such trouble, because if they screw up and hit a vehicle or a building, etc., that little bit of leeway disappears, and it's a $5,000 fine to be inadequately licensed in cases of an accident. At that point, the officer really has no choice in discretion, they have to issue a citation, and when the case gets to court and the judge finds out the driver was not licensed or even trained, they're going to turn them every which way but loose.

Case in point, just a couple years ago, a Swift trainer was crushed between trailers by their trainee -- and that was someone with some basic training, otherwise they never would have been assigned to a trainer. And you know as well as I do, learner's permit or not, some people just aren't going to get the hang of it without a lot of practice.
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