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Old 02-04-2017, 11:15 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by turf View Post
i think its easy to forget that liability insurance doesn't pay you a cent. it's not based on the type of car you drive. its based on you and your driving history.

liability insurance is a proof of financial responsibility. you purchase a policy that covers financial damage you do to others. each state requires its own minimum amount that you are responsible for.

they sell liability policies to people that need alcohol ignition interlocks. there is no reason for a skoolie to be rejected based on the vehicle.

if you can't get a liability policy you are miscommunicating your needs to the insurance agent. its their business to take your money.

while converting, my liability ins was $40/year (that included rv towing). cheaper than my moped ins which is $80 a year. i've added collision and comprehensive insurance now that i have a running RV.

the only thing i ever needed to buy an insurance policy was a checkbook.
that's all that I can get for insurance , and I'm good with that, keeps me on the road.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:08 PM   #22
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The insurance company is just making those excuses. We all know they are lies. Here is the real reason: Insurance companies want low risk clients. Or a "clean book of business". And they and their actuaries figure people who buy busses instead of RVs, usually are low-income, high risk people. And want to stay away from them but they canít say that publicly.

The other reasons are things like substandard conversions and wood stoves. Insurance companies really don't like wood stoves anywhere.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:13 PM   #23
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true that

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...people who buy busses instead of RVs, usually are low-income, high risk people. And want to stay away from them but they canít say that publicly.
Hey, now. I resemble that remark.
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Old 02-04-2017, 12:37 PM   #24
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Hey, now. I resemble that remark.
I agree... Where do I get my bus. 😂

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Old 02-05-2017, 12:41 AM   #25
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The insurance company is just making those excuses. We all know they are lies. Here is the real reason: Insurance companies want low risk clients. Or a "clean book of business". And they and their actuaries figure people who buy busses instead of RVs, usually are low-income, high risk people. And want to stay away from them but they canít say that publicly.

The other reasons are things like substandard conversions and wood stoves. Insurance companies really don't like wood stoves anywhere.
Thanks! You are saving me a ton of time. I can quit posting, because somebody else will soon post the exact same information anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess
... ...
I suspect this allegation is a blatant pretext -- it is not even a euphemism, nor an error. By citing something that sounds technical -- however much out of the blue -- they avoid saying that school buses are often converted and driven by incompetent hippies on bailing-wire budgets, which is true, and is the real reason for the nasty losses.
... ...
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:26 AM   #26
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What percentage of any insurance company's insured base is skoolies?
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:47 AM   #27
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What percentage of any insurance company's insured base is skoolies?
my guess- .000000000000172%
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:00 AM   #28
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my guess- .000000000000172%
That's pretty close to my estimation.

But I wonder if anyone has any real data to show what the percentage actually might be?

I wager that narrow axles, top heavy, etc. have nothing to do with losses. The insurance companies do not even know skoolies exist, they are such a low percentage of their insured base and even lower on the money paid out.
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:32 PM   #29
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They sure knew that my bus existed, because they cancelled the policy after a few weeks. And I have a STERLING record in every regard -- spotless driving record, mature age, 20+ years with the company, several other policies with them, no claims....

(We got it covered eventually, thanks to that record, but we had to jump thru a lot of hoops.)

Any business that hopes to remain in business operates on the concept that every single dollar is vital.
You've heard the old truism.... "Watch your pennies, and the dollars will watch themselves."

Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

And improvement is certainly needed, since so many of us have struggled to get even minimum required liability coverage.

We are all human, and prone to overlook that which we are accustomed to.
Right now.... I'm sitting here telling myself that I MUST finish painting Millicent soon, and spiff her up best I can.
I bought chrome mirrors long ago, but never got around to installing them.

A full-width mudflap on the rear, with a big Good Sam logo, might help.

Brightly polished aluminum rims would help.

Chrome bumpers -- or at least a good pewter/champagne color paintjob on them.

I already dress myself "up" when I drive Millicent -- a fresh Hawaiian shirt and minimally worn jeans or other neat pants or shorts. No "pillow hair"!

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
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Old 02-05-2017, 12:59 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Elliot Naess View Post
They sure knew that my bus existed, because they cancelled the policy after a few weeks. And I have a STERLING record in every regard -- spotless driving record, mature age, 20+ years with the company, several other policies with them, no claims....

(We got it covered eventually, thanks to that record, but we had to jump thru a lot of hoops.)

Any business that hopes to remain in business operates on the concept that every single dollar is vital.
You've heard the old truism.... "Watch your pennies, and the dollars will watch themselves."

Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

And improvement is certainly needed, since so many of us have struggled to get even minimum required liability coverage.

We are all human, and prone to overlook that which we are accustomed to.
Right now.... I'm sitting here telling myself that I MUST finish painting Millicent soon, and spiff her up best I can.
I bought chrome mirrors long ago, but never got around to installing them.

A full-width mudflap on the rear, with a big Good Sam logo, might help.

Brightly polished aluminum rims would help.

Chrome bumpers -- or at least a good pewter/champagne color paintjob on them.

I already dress myself "up" when I drive Millicent -- a fresh Hawaiian shirt and minimally worn jeans or other neat pants or shorts. No "pillow hair"!

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
the Big question I got asked by progressive when I signed up for commercial insurance for personal use was 'is it going to stay a bus?' I answered 'yes'.. for 1. because its obviously a loaded question, and 2. because yes both are still busses.. perhaps DEV is a little less of a bus than RedByrd but it still has seats, and I have cabinets with 'technology art supplies' in it... Redbyrd is still all stock .. you could paint it yello and put the stop sign back on.. and bam its a school bus again... progressive hasnt given me any trouble... renewal time comes up in May, we will see at that time if anytrouble is given.,
-Christopher
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Old 02-05-2017, 01:12 PM   #31
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Hey, now. I resemble that remark.
LOL... me too! However, my keepable income is much higher now that my monthly outlay for living is a mere $200/month! Sure beat my $1500 condo (w/utilities) and my $700 office! I've got $2K a month more... except it all goes into the bus... at some point I'll have more money in the bank!!!

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Old 02-05-2017, 01:21 PM   #32
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Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
I agree with what you have said and appreciate your input.

I think forums like this help us build the best and safest bus we can!

p.s. love your bus!

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Old 02-05-2017, 04:44 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess View Post
They sure knew that my bus existed, because they cancelled the policy after a few weeks. And I have a STERLING record in every regard -- spotless driving record, mature age, 20+ years with the company, several other policies with them, no claims....

(We got it covered eventually, thanks to that record, but we had to jump thru a lot of hoops.)

Any business that hopes to remain in business operates on the concept that every single dollar is vital.
You've heard the old truism.... "Watch your pennies, and the dollars will watch themselves."

Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

And improvement is certainly needed, since so many of us have struggled to get even minimum required liability coverage.

We are all human, and prone to overlook that which we are accustomed to.
Right now.... I'm sitting here telling myself that I MUST finish painting Millicent soon, and spiff her up best I can.
I bought chrome mirrors long ago, but never got around to installing them.

A full-width mudflap on the rear, with a big Good Sam logo, might help.

Brightly polished aluminum rims would help.

Chrome bumpers -- or at least a good pewter/champagne color paintjob on them.

I already dress myself "up" when I drive Millicent -- a fresh Hawaiian shirt and minimally worn jeans or other neat pants or shorts. No "pillow hair"!

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
I plan on a solid conversion. I plan on staying inside my comfort zone with the work I do, and when I don't know how I will turn to friends and the people here for help. I plan on a tight budget that will be spread out. I have read enough of everyone's experiences to be able to plan phases so I don't get in over my head financially or mechanically. The few skoolies I have seen in person ran the gamut from bailing wire and bubblegum to a prevost in a skoolie shell. Mine will fall in between.
I don't think you're a jerk or being a meanie... The bailing wire and bubblegum crowd are hurting the rest of us. It's up to us to change the perception of skoolies.

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Old 02-05-2017, 05:06 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess View Post
They sure knew that my bus existed, because they cancelled the policy after a few weeks. And I have a STERLING record in every regard -- spotless driving record, mature age, 20+ years with the company, several other policies with them, no claims....

(We got it covered eventually, thanks to that record, but we had to jump thru a lot of hoops.)

Any business that hopes to remain in business operates on the concept that every single dollar is vital.
You've heard the old truism.... "Watch your pennies, and the dollars will watch themselves."

Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

And improvement is certainly needed, since so many of us have struggled to get even minimum required liability coverage.

We are all human, and prone to overlook that which we are accustomed to.
Right now.... I'm sitting here telling myself that I MUST finish painting Millicent soon, and spiff her up best I can.
I bought chrome mirrors long ago, but never got around to installing them.

A full-width mudflap on the rear, with a big Good Sam logo, might help.

Brightly polished aluminum rims would help.

Chrome bumpers -- or at least a good pewter/champagne color paintjob on them.

I already dress myself "up" when I drive Millicent -- a fresh Hawaiian shirt and minimally worn jeans or other neat pants or shorts. No "pillow hair"!

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
You might be surprised how many of us agree with you on the shoddy conversion quality.

However, the new business models the newer generations use is a bit different and quite a bit concerning. They no longer look at tomorrow and beyond. They look at today.

As to bus conversion quality, have you seen the pro built rv manufacturing today? It is total crap. Just look at the videos of even the smallest impact to a manufacturer built motor home or travel trailer. Total explosion. Crap everywhere. And I dont mean old stuff, I mean brand new products. Complete junk. Yes i had one, a 2011 Jayco tt. I towed it once and sold it. I tried to follow the plumbing and improve it so it would actually drain to the low spots. Once I opened the space up and saw what I actually paid money for.........I was embarrassed. I could not believe something like this was built in the USA.

So at least a bus, maybe not one with the roof raised, I dunno, but a bus will likely stay together in an impact. I almost wonder if it is more so the lack of driving skills with a long wheel base that causes the insurance cost, not the quality of the conversion. Too many not understanding the tail swing and the off track of such a long vehicle. Lots of parking lot accidents. Maybe a lot of taking a bus on roads that say no trucks, but owners consider a bus a car? I dunno. But insurance companies are not in the business to make life good for the people. They are only in it for the pork.
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Old 02-05-2017, 05:20 PM   #35
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As to bus conversion quality, have you seen the pro built rv manufacturing today? It is total crap. Just look at the videos of even the smallest impact to a manufacturer built motor home or travel trailer. Total explosion. Crap everywhere. And I dont mean old stuff, I mean brand new products. Complete junk. Yes i had one, a 2011 Jayco tt.
Thanks for reaffirming what I believed, but never experienced personally. My princess bride and daughter are like" Why can't we just buy a 'normal' RV, like regular people. I tell them that after a sticks & staples RV is in a crash, they don't send a wrecker to tow it away, they get a dustpan and brooms to clean up the mess. School buses are built with 2 purposes- Safely move children, in that order.

RV's are built like modern homes, to please the bottom line.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:23 PM   #36
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is that hosw florida works? I know Ohio even a personal vehicle thats titled as anything other than a Motorhome and is over 26k GVWR or more than 15 passengers requires CDL.. even church busses require CDL in ohio

the insurance company could argue that a driver is improperly licensed and refuse to pay..

what you say is what would make the most COMMON SENSE.. but governments dont operate on common sense...

-Christopher
I cannot vouch for how current this info is, but I have checked several of the states info and if the vehicle is not transporting more than X number of people and is for personal use, it does not matter how it is titled, a CDL is not required. What is required in most all states - are special endorsements. A CDL is a very specific license for COMMERCIAL DRIVERS. If you are not commercially driving the vehicle, and it is for personal use, and you have the appropriate endorsements (Air Brakes is the most common, followed by oversized vehicle) then you are fine.

I argued for two days with a family member over this and did a lot of calling and researching. We need to make sure there is a clear understanding of CDL vs endorsements on a Class A license. In some states, you take the CDL portion of the exam that is related to the endorsement you are looking to obtain, but you are not required to take the other portions.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:39 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliot Naess View Post
They sure knew that my bus existed, because they cancelled the policy after a few weeks. And I have a STERLING record in every regard -- spotless driving record, mature age, 20+ years with the company, several other policies with them, no claims....

(We got it covered eventually, thanks to that record, but we had to jump thru a lot of hoops.)

Any business that hopes to remain in business operates on the concept that every single dollar is vital.
You've heard the old truism.... "Watch your pennies, and the dollars will watch themselves."

Friends.... I know perfectly well that I am making myself unpopular on this board by admitting openly that skoolies on average are shoddily converted on shoe-string budgets by people of modest competence.

But if we deny this fact, we only shoot ourselves in the foot.
The first step to improving anything, is to recognize that improvement is called for.

And improvement is certainly needed, since so many of us have struggled to get even minimum required liability coverage.

We are all human, and prone to overlook that which we are accustomed to.
Right now.... I'm sitting here telling myself that I MUST finish painting Millicent soon, and spiff her up best I can.
I bought chrome mirrors long ago, but never got around to installing them.

A full-width mudflap on the rear, with a big Good Sam logo, might help.

Brightly polished aluminum rims would help.

Chrome bumpers -- or at least a good pewter/champagne color paintjob on them.

I already dress myself "up" when I drive Millicent -- a fresh Hawaiian shirt and minimally worn jeans or other neat pants or shorts. No "pillow hair"!

Yes, you laugh -- what a jerk that Elliot has become.

Maybe I have.

But... will you grant me a moment's thoughtful consideration of this issue?
I agree with you 100%, I have some sprucing up to on my bus as well, but then again its been used a lot over the past 6 years, didn't think about a good sam sticker,
keep up the good work
gbstewart
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:26 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by ourmefa View Post
I cannot vouch for how current this info is, but I have checked several of the states info and if the vehicle is not transporting more than X number of people and is for personal use, it does not matter how it is titled, a CDL is not required. What is required in most all states - are special endorsements. A CDL is a very specific license for COMMERCIAL DRIVERS. If you are not commercially driving the vehicle, and it is for personal use, and you have the appropriate endorsements (Air Brakes is the most common, followed by oversized vehicle) then you are fine.

I argued for two days with a family member over this and did a lot of calling and researching. We need to make sure there is a clear understanding of CDL vs endorsements on a Class A license. In some states, you take the CDL portion of the exam that is related to the endorsement you are looking to obtain, but you are not required to take the other portions.
There is on the State of Ohio BMV web site a list of CDL Exemptions. One of the exemptions is "Commercial motor vehicle not used in commerce and not regulated by the Public Utilities Commission." That and one or two others listed suggest that weight isn't a consideration so long as the use is non-commercial. I couldn't determine what endorsements are available for Ohio's regular Class D license.. it might be argued that vehicle capacity for 16 or more occupants overrides the noncommercial exemption.

In any case: it's this sort of confusion and disagreement, even and especially among police who do the enforcing as well as those who issue the licenses, that led me to decide "meh, it's easy enough to get (or upgrade) the CDL and make these questions all go away. Might as well do it."
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:36 PM   #39
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Thanks for reaffirming what I believed, but never experienced personally. My princess bride and daughter are like" Why can't we just buy a 'normal' RV, like regular people. I tell them that after a sticks & staples RV is in a crash, they don't send a wrecker to tow it away, they get a dustpan and brooms to clean up the mess. School buses are built with 2 purposes- Safely move children, in that order.

RV's are built like modern homes, to please the bottom line.

I'm not kidding, pro built rvs for anything less than 100k are absolute crap. And, they now push the "four seasons" (and other terminology) packages. All that means is, they do such a cheap and crappy job of putting wires and piping under the chassis, that they have to spray foam and cover it up with a sheet of plastic. They even just cable tie the sheet of plastic up and if it tears during assembly, they duct tape it. No kidding. Mice and rodent habitat of the best kind.

A bus on the other hand, even if done without skills, is an all metal body on a heavy built and safe chassis. You can put apartment appliances in it instead of rv crap. You can put a real couch and a real bed in it. A real sink and a real shower. I dont care if one just sets these things in and does'nt know how to anchor them, it is still safer and better put together than a manufactured rv.
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:40 PM   #40
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I just toured a 17' Jayco that was being delivered to the dealer. Window sticker price in the 120's. Seems like flimsy junk. I mean, its nice, but doesn't seem like its gonna hold up like any bus.
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