Will Disappearing Insurers Kill The Skoolie?

[Hergules]

I've been planning a 40' skoolie conversion for several months, but lately I'm having second thoughts. The frequency of complaints from the community about their inability to get basic insurance (even after retitling it as an RV) is making me nervous. I don't want to pour $50k+ into a build only to discover after-the-fact that no insurance companies will write a policy for me.

Are there any insurance companies that are committed to the skoolie market? Or is it only a matter of time until they all bail?

[s2mikon]

All the fish are swimming in the same lake. If the water isn't good for 1 then it isn't good for the others. Insurers of cars and rv's don't just cover vehicles. They also cover houses and businesses that have been hit hard by forest fires, hurricanes and other natural disasters. I think that they are looking to shield themselves from exposure. They don't mind covering a bus with 50 kids on board because the manufacture of the bus is also on the hook (deep pockets). But when you or I modify a bus we don't have deep pockets and they loose interest. And I can't blame them, they have to keep their shareholders happy. Knowing what I know now I would have started with a truck and kept it titled as a truck.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

All the fish are swimming in the same lake. If the water isn't good for 1 then it isn't good for the others. Insurers of cars and rv's don't just cover vehicles. They also cover houses and businesses that have been hit hard by forest fires, hurricanes and other natural disasters. I think that they are looking to shield themselves from exposure. They don't mind covering a bus with 50 kids on board because the manufacture of the bus is also on the hook (deep pockets). But when you or I modify a bus we don't have deep pockets and they loose interest. And I can't blame them, they have to keep their shareholders happy. Knowing what I know now I would have started with a truck and kept it titled as a truck.

paert of it is the sheer dumbness that some people take in building a skoolie.. sorry if i offend skoolie-nation but roof raises, wood stoves and roof decks or even cut-off toy haulers are what likely discourages insurance.. I dont have any issues insuring my factory original busses for personal use... and I dont know anyone who does have big issues doing it..



many of the builds here are built pretty darn safe but the "mundane" builds arent the ones that end up on youtube as viral or the ones that end up on magazine covers.. insurers are about risk.. pure and simple.. really doesnt even have anything to do with suing someone.. its actually pretty hard unless theres an actual defect in a product to win against a manufacturer.. but insurers dont send an inspector out to every skoolie to see if its built in a safe inruable manner.. (yeah i saw one just last week with a wood stove half-ass bolted to the bus floor.. in a crash that things goin flying....).. anyway its easier and cheaper for the insurance company jiust to exclude the whole sector.. overall its not a huge part of their business..

[TaliaDPerkins]

Contra cadillackid, nothing about a woodstove in a skoolie, a roof raise, or a deck on introduces any particular risks -- everything always is a matter of how you do it.


While I have yet to do some of these things (or likely never will, RE a deck).



Woostove -- use metal sheeting shielding standoffs, or ceramic board (never let the heat of the nearest combustible surface get high enough to be a problem), when you place your flue, use the same sort of rules as you would in a house (fireproof as well as rainproof passthrough and boot, have a nice long rise for draft, have a way to brace it against wind, put in an interlock so you can't drive the bus until the flue is down and the stove is cold, have a smoke/fire & CO alarm)


Roof raise -- add much skin and delete many windows, use rivet and steel of the same gauge as the factory skins and rib, rivet to the same factory spacing, have extension ribbing that overlaps the original for 4~6" above and below the extension, stagger those extensions vertically so there is no one long line that is a seam. Seal all rivets and seams.


Deck -- Have a railing of regulation height and gaps. Have that bolt or otherwise lock to where it will support the weight of people leaning on it. Have cage ladder to get to it that people can't easily fall from. Mount it solely to the ribs of the bus.


The way to do it right reduces risk to a reasonable minimum.


None of which most insurance carriers care about.


Which is probably why we should start our own insurer and approving agencies.

[s2mikon]

What Chris is saying is so true. I have seen some real bone headed videos and facebook posts and a few here too. To add to what was mentioned already, taking out the defrosters, installing non safety glass doors and windows, inside water tanks not strapped down. I saw one with a claw foot bathtub unsecured. Then I saw one that didn't have any grey water tanks and was just dumping on the ground. Another had his bar b q lpg bottles inside the coach bungee tied to the wall. Another had a propane water heater vented to the inside. If you don't get permits and build your house to code it may be hard to get insurance for it too. That is why we have a building permit process. Add to that the lack of knowledge of operating large vehicles and air brakes and it isn't hard to see why it is getting harder to get insurance.

[La Camioneta]

Roof raise, wood-stove and roof deck are the three no's for insurability.

When I called my agent, I told her none of them would be a part of the bus.
She also insisted the conversion be 'professionally done.' I'd be prepared to prove with receipts professional involvement in your build.

Its not a matter of can the three be done safely, its a matter of can you get coverage with them. And what are you willing to risk if you've misrepresented your vehicle to the insurance company.

[shorthair]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

paert of it is the sheer dumbness that some people take in building a skoolie.. sorry if i offend skoolie-nation but roof raises, wood stoves and roof decks or even cut-off toy haulers are what likely discourages insurance.. I dont have any issues insuring my factory original busses for personal use... and I dont know anyone who does have big issues doing it..



many of the builds here are built pretty darn safe but the "mundane" builds arent the ones that end up on youtube as viral or the ones that end up on magazine covers.. insurers are about risk.. pure and simple.. really doesnt even have anything to do with suing someone.. its actually pretty hard unless theres an actual defect in a product to win against a manufacturer.. but insurers dont send an inspector out to every skoolie to see if its built in a safe inruable manner.. (yeah i saw one just last week with a wood stove half-ass bolted to the bus floor.. in a crash that things goin flying....).. anyway its easier and cheaper for the insurance company jiust to exclude the whole sector.. overall its not a huge part of their business..

Both of you hit the nail on the head, we are our on worst enemy.

[Danjo]

I was told by NGIC no decks, racks, wood stoves or structural modifications

[Hergules]

No structural modifications is pretty vague. My agent said "must not remove windows". I said you mean the single pane, drafty, and leaking OEM windows? Just replacing the bus windows with quality RV windows may make the build uninsurable depending on the mood of the underwriter. Again, seems you need to invest in the build and THEN gamble that you can get insurance.

[Danjo]

Originally Posted by Hergules

No structural modifications is pretty vague. My agent said "must not remove windows". I said you mean the single pane, drafty, and leaking OEM windows? Just replacing the bus windows with quality RV windows may make the build uninsurable depending on the mood of the underwriter. Again, seems you need to invest in the build and THEN gamble that you can get insurance.

IDK. Along the way I’ve heard of people that had done a forbidden modification get shot down for insurance and then cant get it even when they reverse the modification. In that case I believe it was a wood stove.

When I started down the skoolie road I contacted NGIC maybe a half a dozen times. Eventually I got to talk to an agent that took the time to answer my questions. I told them what I wanted to do. I also told them that I considered their input important since they were insuring it.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Hergules

No structural modifications is pretty vague. My agent said "must not remove windows". I said you mean the single pane, drafty, and leaking OEM windows? Just replacing the bus windows with quality RV windows may make the build uninsurable depending on the mood of the underwriter. Again, seems you need to invest in the build and THEN gamble that you can get insurance.

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You have an agent?

Yay! I missed the post about your bus.

Congrats! Post pics when you can.

[Hergules]

Originally Posted by DeMac

------------------

You have an agent?

Yay! I missed the post about your bus.

Congrats! Post pics when you can.

I have an agent that handles home & auto that also handles skoolies. I wanted to get the rules/requirements from him in advance of my build to avoid ending up with an uninsurable skoolie. Basically, no one can guarantee that you'll be able to get insurance.... Frankly, I think I'm going to renovate an Airstream instead.

[DeMac]

Originally Posted by Hergules

I have an agent that handles home & auto that also handles skoolies. I wanted to get the rules/requirements from him in advance of my build to avoid ending up with an uninsurable skoolie. Basically, no one can guarantee that you'll be able to get insurance.... Frankly, I think I'm going to renovate an Airstream instead.

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