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Old 07-11-2017, 04:26 PM   #21
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I grabbed the diesel pump during my trip to pick up the transmission for my Redbyrd.. fortunately modern gas cars, the diesel pump wouldnt fit the hole in my silverado.. it was force of habit.. trip to florida, summer, thinking about the bus.. driving a pickup.. naturally i had diesel on the brain..
-Christopher

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Old 07-11-2017, 05:21 PM   #22
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i had diesel on the brain..
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It is a disease and is very contagious.....
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Old 07-11-2017, 06:43 PM   #23
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Years ago "Off road" fuel had less stringent sulfur requirements than the "on road" fuel ... and it was untaxed, which accounted for the majority of the cost difference. These days it's all ULSD (Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel) since the advent of emission-equipped farm and construction equipment, so the only difference is the highway tax and appropriate dye.

***FAIR WARNING*** No One wants to get caught using the red stuff unless you *KNOW* the laws in your area and are absolutely sure of what you are doing. It's not just a violation of various laws, it's also tax evasion and the IRS can get involved.

It is legal for various off road uses such as road-trailer refrigeration, farm and construction, and even "idle reduction" units (as long as they have a separate fuel system). Since reefer units are an off road use of fuel, but many trucks fill up at truck stops where road taxes are paid, the trucking companies keep track of which fuel is put in the trailers (it is split up and kept track of separately specifically for this purpose) and they can get the tax refunded when they file. Same holds true for construction and farm use.
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Old 07-13-2017, 07:17 AM   #24
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DO NOT USE "OFF ROAD" DIESEL

It is not "technically illegal", it is FULLY ILLEGAL.

Off Road, or RED, Diesel is indeed ultra-low Sulphur fuel just like regular on-road.
It has a red dye added to it so it can be identified by "revenuers".
The red dye remains in tank a LONG time, as well as filters. Subsequent fill-ups will be diluted but still detectable unless you drain and steam clean the tanks.

The red dye CAN harm your fuel system because it will stain sensors and cause false readings. (yes, I had it happen)

Red Fuel voids ALL warranties on an "on-road" injection system. (and the shop may have to report the findings as well by law)

Red Fuel is for OFF ROAD only.
It has no road tax in the price.
Using it is TAX EVASION, and they WILL tag you. (just like Capone)
It leaves a residue, is detectable in small amounts, and they have detectors to "see" the dye.
I have SEEN fines up to $1000 per gallon in the tank.

FLORIDA, Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, Kansas, Nebraska, & California are states I know FOR SURE that will "stick your tanks" to check fuel.

Florida does it at the "Ag Check Station".

Trying to save .15 cents a gallon can cost you WAYYY more than you ever save.
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dixie Bushcraft View Post
DO NOT USE "OFF ROAD" DIESEL

It is not "technically illegal", it is FULLY ILLEGAL.

Off Road, or RED, Diesel is indeed ultra-low Sulphur fuel just like regular on-road.
It has a red dye added to it so it can be identified by "revenuers".
The red dye remains in tank a LONG time, as well as filters. Subsequent fill-ups will be diluted but still detectable unless you drain and steam clean the tanks.

The red dye CAN harm your fuel system because it will stain sensors and cause false readings. (yes, I had it happen)

Red Fuel voids ALL warranties on an "on-road" injection system. (and the shop may have to report the findings as well by law)

Red Fuel is for OFF ROAD only.
It has no road tax in the price.
Using it is TAX EVASION, and they WILL tag you. (just like Capone)
It leaves a residue, is detectable in small amounts, and they have detectors to "see" the dye.
I have SEEN fines up to $1000 per gallon in the tank.

FLORIDA, Alabama, Tennessee, Texas, Kansas, Nebraska, & California are states I know FOR SURE that will "stick your tanks" to check fuel.

Florida does it at the "Ag Check Station".

Trying to save .15 cents a gallon can cost you WAYYY more than you ever save.
Add Washington to your list. I was pulled over by WSP and checked a while back.
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:58 AM   #26
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DOT pulled over a musician friend of mine for not stopping at an ag inspection. He was in a white ford van! They don't play here in FL.
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:14 PM   #27
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Texas, for sure, doesn't play nice. Those troopers can even read log books! I got in the habit of stopping at Texarkana to update my logs. Kinda like going through Kalyfornyastan's custom stops at the borders.
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:30 PM   #28
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While we're on the subject of diesel, does anyone have older engines, like 1970-80s and use sulfur additives? I've heard the ULSD <15ppm does not have the lubrication properties as the traditional 500+ ppm.
I agree with the illegalness of off road red diesel but the modern off road engines would have the same sensors and electronics as on road engines i would think, so I wonder how that happens that they would get ruined.
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:45 PM   #29
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Add GA and NC to the list of states that check fuel. NC advertises it in some of their weigh stations, and GA ... let's just say that's from personal experience.

For older engines that weren't designed for ULSD, there's additives that increase lubricity of fuel but are supposed to keep the sulfur PPM at the same levels.
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:19 PM   #30
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Someone mentioned bio diesel. There was a man that made it from old french fry oil from some fast food places. He put it in his old Mercedes 300D. He got fined $10,000. this was in the newspapers many years ago. I don't know if there has been any legislation about this since, along with highway taxes on electric cars .

I also know a guy that put off road diesel in his pick-up truck. I think he said he was fined $10,000 + a LOT of hassle.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:54 AM   #31
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First, always fuel up at the same places that the OTR trucks use... just get in line (not the line where they are eating while waiting to fuel, however). I have never in 55 yrs had any problems, (n my parents owened several otr trucks. Second, always carry at least one set of fuel filters, not to mention a boat refulling bulb or elect pump for when necessary. Third, you are risking your own injection pump, tank, etc when you run bio... Just try cleaning out a tank that has 8 inches of coagulated mess, n the lines, n the pump... I have been there on used equipment i have purchased, but that is OK, as the truck or excavator, cat, etc is cheap..Last time it only took one day for truck that i bought for scrap value...
Fourth, one is not supposed to use the farm diesel, and it is easily checked, with electronic reader now days... Use the green diesel. If you insist on using the red, at least install a separate tank, as when going down the freeway n u get checked, you can switch back to the normal bus tank n they can check that. R U guessing that some gippo OTR guys have done this? Nuff Said.\
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:18 AM   #32
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I just learned this yesterday but it might have something to do with what happened to your in-law. I've been watching diesel prices since I got my bus and yesterday I drove past a rural farm country type station that had #2 diesel and an "off-road" diesel that was 10 cents cheaper. I don't know what "off-road" diesel is but they use it in rural areas ... places that might have automated, unsupervised pump stations. I can't say I wouldn't jump on 10 cents a gallon - thats $6.50 savings for a tankful.
Off -Road diesel is generally for Tractors and other Farm Equipment.

I hope this helps someone.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:22 AM   #33
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Its technically illegal to use on the highway. Its for offroad/agricultural use and its pink. If for some reason a LEO dips into your tank to check its real bad.
Chances are that will never happen. But if it does it can get EXPENSIVE depending on the state you're in.
Most of your big fuel stops have either Yellow, Blue, or Red diesel. It is this color because in the Winter time they already have the fuel conditioner in it to keep it from gelling up. It is very unusual if you see diesel with those colors in the Summer or Fall.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:49 AM   #34
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are there certain colors to look for to make sure you get winterized fuel? I know when I drove the DEV from florida to ohio when it was below zero.. I kept stopping every 50 miles to put fuel in it as I headed north to make sure I had winterized fuel in the tank... plus I never shut the bus off for more than 15 minutes that whole trip...

ive noticed sometimes when I pump fuel it has a greenish tint at some stations..
-Christopher
That greenish tint is Winterized fuel.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:40 AM   #35
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"Winterized" fuel is not an additive.
They blend #2 diesel with #1 diesel which is more refined and has a lower gel point.
The higher price in winter is because of the expensive jet fuel blended in.
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Old 07-14-2017, 11:44 AM   #36
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Isn't jet fuel pretty much just Kerosene?
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:29 PM   #37
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yes and can be far cheaper even tho it is refined more...best to use the no two diesel, second the no one stove oil... for like very cold op... we have sold many millions of fuel oil...
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