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Old 07-03-2018, 11:30 AM   #1
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Exclamation Skoolie Help In Washington State

Skoolie Folks:


There is a new member of this forum who has flown out to pick up a new bus (one just like mine - a New Flyer D45HF coach) who is having problems. He's had the bus running for about 45 minutes and as he was going up an on-ramp to the highway he lost power and now the transmission won't shift into gear. The engine idles just fine. Temps all seem to be in the right ranges.


Any ideas? What questions should I ask him for a rough diagnosis?


Thanks!
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:42 AM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,183
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Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
Where is he located?
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:57 AM   #3
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Onramp to I-5 coming from Port of Olympia.
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Old 07-03-2018, 11:58 AM   #4
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
I-5 Northbound.
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:34 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tenino, Wa (20 mi SE of Olympia)
Posts: 65
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Bluebird
Engine: CAT 3208
Rated Cap: 84 pass 36200 gvw
I am about 20 min form that location and could show up with tools and some troubleshooting help. I would need to know which exit (number) and what I am looking for.


Bob
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:46 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
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Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by snonut View Post
I am about 20 min form that location and could show up with tools and some troubleshooting help. I would need to know which exit (number) and what I am looking for.


Bob

Wow, Thank You!!!


Ok, Pat is his name. He is on I5 north between exits 105 and 107 (107 being for Pacific Avenue).
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:53 PM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
And he is in a coach bus that looks like this:


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Old 07-03-2018, 01:00 PM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tenino, Wa (20 mi SE of Olympia)
Posts: 65
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Bluebird
Engine: CAT 3208
Rated Cap: 84 pass 36200 gvw
Ok I'll run up there. I'll be driving an older Jeep Cherokee.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:02 PM   #9
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
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Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by snonut View Post
Ok I'll run up there. I'll be driving an older Jeep Cherokee.

Thank you very, very much!
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:27 PM   #10
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central MN
Posts: 158
Year: 1999
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Chassis: TC RE
Engine: 8.3L
I really love this place! Atta boy Bob. Howdy and thanks from a whole bunch of us.
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Old 07-03-2018, 02:02 PM   #11
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Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Wisconsin N.E.
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Year: 2000
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Engine: 5.9
Rated Cap: 72
This forum is so cool, thanks for helping a random guy on the side of the road!

I'm not the guy btw.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:34 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Tenino, Wa (20 mi SE of Olympia)
Posts: 65
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Bluebird
Engine: CAT 3208
Rated Cap: 84 pass 36200 gvw
Unfortunately I was not much help. Managed to get some panels open that Patrick couldn't with the tools he had but all we could find was a couple of CB's that were popped, resetting did turn on the lights to the shifter but nothing else. He ended up having to call for a tow. He had to call three different places just to find someone that would see if they could fix it. At least he has a name and number now in case something else pops up.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:34 PM   #13
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Location: Houston, Texas
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Year: 1946
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Rated Cap: 15
That coach looks suspiciously like a Houston Metro Transit bus! But...a long way from home.
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Old 07-04-2018, 02:34 AM   #14
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Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winlcok, WA
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New Flyer used several different OEM vendors to supply transmissions. It all sort of depended upon who was spe'c'ing the bus and what the company/organization already had in the fleet.

Most opted for the Allison--common, easy to find parts, lots of shops know them and can work on them.

Some opted for the Voith--very uncommon, very difficult to find parts, service virtually non-existent outside of transit bus shops.

And some opted for the ZF AS Tronic transmission--more common than the Voith but not nearly as common as the Allison. Parts are easier to find than for Voith but not nearly as easy as Allison. More and more shops are getting techs who know how to work on the AS Tronic since it is used in Class 7/8 heavy duty trucks as well as buses.

If the bus has an AS Tronic it has to be driven differently from an Allison or Voith. With the Allison or Voith you can bury your foot in the throttle on Monday and never let up until the end of the shift on Friday. Both transmissions will shift up and down automatically with virtually zero input by the driver.

The AS Tronic is an automated manual transmission. It will NOT drive like the Allison or Voith. In order for the transmission to shift you HAVE to let off the throttle long enough for the transmission to shift. As long as you keep your foot buried in the throttle it won't shift up or down.

As to what is causing problems in your friends bus I would hesitate to guess what might be the problem without first knowing which transmission we are talking about, what the symptoms are, and what has been done so far.

Good luck!
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:32 AM   #15
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
That coach looks suspiciously like a Houston Metro Transit bus! But...a long way from home.

Yup, it was. Actually the pic I posted was of my bus as I couldn't find the old posting to lift the pics from. Kinson72 found one just like it out in Washington, bought it, flew out and picked it up, then had transmission issues 45min down the road.


The fact that someone from this community was willing to spend a few hours helping is an incredible testament.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
New Flyer used several different OEM vendors to supply transmissions. It all sort of depended upon who was spe'c'ing the bus and what the company/organization already had in the fleet.
Most opted for the Allison--common, easy to find parts, lots of shops know them and can work on them.

Some opted for the Voith--very uncommon, very difficult to find parts, service virtually non-existent outside of transit bus shops.

And some opted for the ZF AS Tronic transmission--more common than the Voith but not nearly as common as the Allison. Parts are easier to find than for Voith but not nearly as easy as Allison. More and more shops are getting techs who know how to work on the AS Tronic since it is used in Class 7/8 heavy duty trucks as well as buses.

If the bus has an AS Tronic it has to be driven differently from an Allison or Voith. With the Allison or Voith you can bury your foot in the throttle on Monday and never let up until the end of the shift on Friday. Both transmissions will shift up and down automatically with virtually zero input by the driver.

The AS Tronic is an automated manual transmission. It will NOT drive like the Allison or Voith. In order for the transmission to shift you HAVE to let off the throttle long enough for the transmission to shift. As long as you keep your foot buried in the throttle it won't shift up or down.

As to what is causing problems in your friends bus I would hesitate to guess what might be the problem without first knowing which transmission we are talking about, what the symptoms are, and what has been done so far.

Good luck!



As for the tranny, it is a ZF Meritor Ecomat or Ecomat 2. In my bus it shifts just like my car - I don't have to lift my foot for it to shift. It does shift pretty hard from 1st to 2nd, but after that its pretty smooth for such a large vehicle.


We troubleshot for a good while yesterday. The PLC and engine all sounded good, but the transmission simply refused to engage. However, snonut and kinson72 were onsite, not me (I was playing backup with the PLC logic and schematics).


kinson72 eventually got a tow. He's in a bit of a pickle now as he's got a bus in the shop a long way from home, some issues he needs to deal with at home, and now he's going to have to take some flights again. At least the guy who sold me my bus has spare tranny parts, so that part is covered.


I'd ask to keep him in your thoughts and prayers.


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Old 07-04-2018, 10:46 AM   #16
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central MN
Posts: 158
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC RE
Engine: 8.3L
Keep us updated as others here may be able to help in various ways. Where is the final destination?
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:49 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Greenwood, Indiana
Posts: 669
Year: 1999
Coachwork: New Flyer
Chassis: D45HF "Viking"
Engine: 11.1L Detroit Diesel S60
Rated Cap: 51,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post
Keep us updated as others here may be able to help in various ways. Where is the final destination?

Thanks, Gustav!


Kinson72 is headed for ... Pennsylvania....
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:05 PM   #18
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central MN
Posts: 158
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC RE
Engine: 8.3L
As we say in MN, UFF DA!
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Old 07-04-2018, 03:57 PM   #19
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 142
Hello all! This is Pat the owner.

The bus was driven four hours to the location we picked it up at. It sat for around two months before we got there. The batteries were dead and it was somehow shut down in drive. We called for a jump and after 3-4 attempts, discovered it was in drive. It then started right up. The drive up until what Markydee described seemed fine. No lights or warning sounds were active when this happened. Hopefully it can get checked over and easily fixed. They cannot look at it until Friday and we are limited on time. We also received unfortunate news that my grandfather was in the hospital. We are going to fly home and hope for good news from the mechanic.

I just want to say that Markydee and Snonut have been a tremendous help. They helped keep me slightly sane during all this. Any and all questions, no matter how annoying, Markydee did his best to answer. Snonut arrived and did not want to give up on us. He even offered to help in any way when/if I come back. This just reinforced my decision to be a part of this community and hopefully I can pay it forward some day.
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Old 07-04-2018, 07:23 PM   #20
Skoolie
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Central MN
Posts: 158
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC RE
Engine: 8.3L
You get home and take care of your family. They are the most important. Take a breath, and everything will work out just fine. Keep us posted and our great community will always try to make the sun shine and help any way we can. Safe travels!
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