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Old 07-14-2022, 11:21 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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2008 Maxxforce DT

So long story short didn't do enough due diligence and bought a 08 international 77 passenger with this lovely motor in it. I know it's a bit of a problem motor but what i'm really wondering is if any one has deleted the egr, coolers, and dpf? Did you see an improvement? I can do this in my state as i dont have to do emission where i live. Not trying to start on a debate whether i should or not. Just want to know if anyone has and how they did it as well as where the heck to get the block plates from??

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Old 07-14-2022, 03:54 PM   #2
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sorry i have not done it?
and dont know what is needed?
have read that kits are available for it and the harder part is getting the computer reprogrammed.
others on here will be along soon
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Old 07-14-2022, 04:45 PM   #3
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its possible to do a delete... ive Seen the software to do it (or maybe i havent) but the better thing to do is treat the engine right and even bulletproof it if so desired...



the VGT turbo actuator is a problem child on any DT466 2004 and newer.. replacement of it isnt too bad to do..


the DPF clogs mainly on short trips and if proper regens dont complete.. or when the turbo malfunctions (yes it turns on the light) and you keep driving with low boost...


the EGR coolers can be pre-emptively replaced with aftermarket units that do a great job...



as for deleting it.. the EPA (under a tree-hugging administration) is really cracking down on those performing or selling pieces / parts / software for deleting a diesel...



the DPF parameters are not editable in any version of DLB or servicemaxx... actually they are hard coded into the engine calibration portion of the ECM... its possible that engine files exist for export or off-road applications that could possibly be flashed into an ECM.......
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Old 07-14-2022, 05:23 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
its possible to do a delete... ive Seen the software to do it (or maybe i havent) but the better thing to do is treat the engine right and even bulletproof it if so desired...



the VGT turbo actuator is a problem child on any DT466 2004 and newer.. replacement of it isnt too bad to do..


the DPF clogs mainly on short trips and if proper regens dont complete.. or when the turbo malfunctions (yes it turns on the light) and you keep driving with low boost...


the EGR coolers can be pre-emptively replaced with aftermarket units that do a great job...



as for deleting it.. the EPA (under a tree-hugging administration) is really cracking down on those performing or selling pieces / parts / software for deleting a diesel...



the DPF parameters are not editable in any version of DLB or servicemaxx... actually they are hard coded into the engine calibration portion of the ECM... its possible that engine files exist for export or off-road applications that could possibly be flashed into an ECM.......
Ok so that's probably why i can't find any block of plates or info for the egr and coolers. I have found a few tuners that will use Nexiq. But no info on how to do the mechanical stuff i'm pretty mechanically inclined so i could have a shop cnc me some plates but im worried about cooling lines and cooling over pressure. picking it up on the 22nd so i guess we will see how it goes once i get my hands on it. I have some time not converting for a couple months and it will probably sit for 6 months so the research can be done and at least an ecu tune (hopefully) before the eps gets to crazy on people. Cost isn't an issue but dont think i could sell this thing once i get it back to my state without loosing some money after flights and fuel.

The bus was a backup unit and only has 159k on it and the school district had strict start stop times apparently (25 min warm up, 20 min cool down mandatory for the drivers) so hopefully everything checks out. They also do have every service record and it was serviced every 6000 miles so i may get lucky.

The 1900 mile trip back home is the only thing worrying me as i dont want to be stuck somewhere when work comes back around monday. First trip will be a long hard one for it but i guess high hopes.
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Old 07-14-2022, 05:39 PM   #5
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i would think something that electrically advanced i would want my electronic scan tool in play and working for a visual display and knowledge of the display while bringing it home.
(not saying you have to)
that way when you have to call a road side mechanic you can give them an idea of your issue before they get there.
and try before your trip to log every states big rig mobile mechanics for your route.
even mechanical knowledge cant get a part to you on the side of the road without another vehicle and telling the mobile mechanic shop what is broke before the dispatch a truck could save a good bit of money and time.
and the scan tool you are going to need/want anyway.
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Old 07-14-2022, 06:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
i would think something that electrically advanced i would want my electronic scan tool in play and working for a visual display and knowledge of the display while bringing it home.
(not saying you have to)
that way when you have to call a road side mechanic you can give them an idea of your issue before they get there.
and try before your trip to log every states big rig mobile mechanics for your route.
even mechanical knowledge cant get a part to you on the side of the road without another vehicle and telling the mobile mechanic shop what is broke before the dispatch a truck could save a good bit of money and time.
and the scan tool you are going to need/want anyway.
Those scan tools run a hefty price though dont they? I have one from work i may be able to borrow but buying will have to come later
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:01 PM   #7
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With the nexiq and the “god mode” servicemaxx you can read the computer out before you buy the bus.. if the EGR coolers are bad there will be plenty of tattletales recorded.. plus low coolant and regen errors … when the EGR coolers die they usually put water into the intake which steams the exhaust and fails any regen that tries to occur..

Like I say don’t delete it just fix the broken stuff and drive it. Bulletproof makes EGR coolers for these engines if you are worried about them failing..
I don’t know if any tuners .. like I say EPA is going after anyone big or small that deletes or tunes that don’t pass emissions.. EGR is mainly an emission item however it also can affect the EGT. You would likely need a whole new calibration and different turbo curves as well to run deleted..
Not to mention unless you do all of your own work you may not be able to get services.. some shops are reportedly sending any vehicle down the road that has its emissions compromised or removed …

If you are always doing your own repairs or using little guys for repairs then that’s a non issue..
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Old 07-14-2022, 10:04 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
With the nexiq and the “god mode” servicemaxx you can read the computer out before you buy the bus.. if the EGR coolers are bad there will be plenty of tattletales recorded.. plus low coolant and regen errors … when the EGR coolers die they usually put water into the intake which steams the exhaust and fails any regen that tries to occur..

Like I say don’t delete it just fix the broken stuff and drive it. Bulletproof makes EGR coolers for these engines if you are worried about them failing..
I don’t know if any tuners .. like I say EPA is going after anyone big or small that deletes or tunes that don’t pass emissions.. EGR is mainly an emission item however it also can affect the EGT. You would likely need a whole new calibration and different turbo curves as well to run deleted..
Not to mention unless you do all of your own work you may not be able to get services.. some shops are reportedly sending any vehicle down the road that has its emissions compromised or removed …

If you are always doing your own repairs or using little guys for repairs then that’s a non issue..
That's also a way more cost effective route. Good info to know as well. $2,000 vs something that's $2,000 just for a tune
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:30 AM   #9
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Just found out yesterday too thats it's a 2007 not a 2008... single turbo dt. Don't know if that is any better but the real bad ones im looking at are the compound turbo dt's
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Old 07-15-2022, 08:54 AM   #10
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07 / 08 Maxxforce DT are the same engine.. 07s still could either be DT466 or Maxxforce DT (they will be labelled on the side of the bus as such).. it wasnt until 10s (some busses not till 11) that the compound turbo versions came out.



the 10+ had more issues for sure.. they also got a new injection system.. the 07-09 was still HEUI.. the 10+ was common rail.. the MF7 was common rail from the beginning..



but really any bus I would be looking at wit ha maxxforce I would go there.. so it costs a grand for a flight.. much less than it will cost if you are 50 miles down the road and see that dreaded steamy haze in the rear view mirror then the "low coolant" light comes on.... been there done that and have the artifacts to prove it...
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Old 07-15-2022, 09:08 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
07 / 08 Maxxforce DT are the same engine.. 07s still could either be DT466 or Maxxforce DT (they will be labelled on the side of the bus as such).. it wasnt until 10s (some busses not till 11) that the compound turbo versions came out.



the 10+ had more issues for sure.. they also got a new injection system.. the 07-09 was still HEUI.. the 10+ was common rail.. the MF7 was common rail from the beginning..



but really any bus I would be looking at wit ha maxxforce I would go there.. so it costs a grand for a flight.. much less than it will cost if you are 50 miles down the road and see that dreaded steamy haze in the rear view mirror then the "low coolant" light comes on.... been there done that and have the artifacts to prove it...

Ok yeah its a maxxforce just from what im seeing its a black valve cover instead of the blue. Apparently very well maintained so at least we will see what happens when i get there. I'll post pictures now
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Old 07-15-2022, 09:10 AM   #12
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Here is the pics more will come when i pick it up
Attached Thumbnails
11253_29_1.jpg   11253_29_2.jpg   11253_29_7.jpg   11253_29_8.jpg   11253_29_9.jpg  

11253_29_10.jpg  
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Old 07-15-2022, 04:58 PM   #13
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After market delete kits are hard to come by...you can still find them prety frequently for pickup size engines, but nothing mid or heavy duty. The government figured it was easier to go after the suppliers of emissions bypass equipment than all the consumers and have been somewhat successful at it.

We used to make our own block-off plates for our 2004-2007 DT466e's with EGR. Just took some thick sheet metal and a drill press. With that design coolant is still flowing through the EGR cooler which is a point of failure.

Lately we have had a local fabricating shop just close up the cooler (both gas and coolant ports) which is simpler and appears to look more like stock. In a "don't ask don't tell" exchange we give him the cooler, pretend its for some HVAC equipment, and he welds it closed. Our fleet is commerical so we're subject to random DOT inspections. Around here they're more concerned with passenger safety than EPA bull$hit, but no need to arouse suspicion.

The benefit to our engine though is the ECM and other computers are pretty unaware of what's going on in the EGR, so once we have everything blocked off we don't have to do any tuning or deal with check engine lamps. The EGR valve still opens and closes but has no idea there's no airflow...

As cadillackid said, the maxxforce line changed all that... the ECM controls every aspect of the emissions control so it gets much more complicated to try to delete any of it. On the one maxxforce dt (2008 ) we owned we looked into trying to delete it and wound up just setting aside some money to pay for the inevitable repairs until we could unload it on the next guy.

One gotchya I'll throw out there is any deleted engine can't/won't be serviced by anything bigger than a mom & pop shop. Once you go down that road, you're committing to doing all your service work or relying on side-work mechanics. We keep a stock original EGR cooler on the shelf to toss in a bus on the off chance we need to go to a Navistar dealer for something my mechanic friend can't fix in-house for us...
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Old 07-15-2022, 05:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Dbacks2k4 View Post
After market delete kits are hard to come by...you can still find them prety frequently for pickup size engines, but nothing mid or heavy duty. The government figured it was easier to go after the suppliers of emissions bypass equipment than all the consumers and have been somewhat successful at it.

We used to make our own block-off plates for our 2004-2007 DT466e's with EGR. Just took some thick sheet metal and a drill press. With that design coolant is still flowing through the EGR cooler which is a point of failure.

Lately we have had a local fabricating shop just close up the cooler (both gas and coolant ports) which is simpler and appears to look more like stock. In a "don't ask don't tell" exchange we give him the cooler, pretend its for some HVAC equipment, and he welds it closed. Our fleet is commerical so we're subject to random DOT inspections. Around here they're more concerned with passenger safety than EPA bull$hit, but no need to arouse suspicion.

The benefit to our engine though is the ECM and other computers are pretty unaware of what's going on in the EGR, so once we have everything blocked off we don't have to do any tuning or deal with check engine lamps. The EGR valve still opens and closes but has no idea there's no airflow...

As cadillackid said, the maxxforce line changed all that... the ECM controls every aspect of the emissions control so it gets much more complicated to try to delete any of it. On the one maxxforce dt (2008 ) we owned we looked into trying to delete it and wound up just setting aside some money to pay for the inevitable repairs until we could unload it on the next guy.

One gotchya I'll throw out there is any deleted engine can't/won't be serviced by anything bigger than a mom & pop shop. Once you go down that road, you're committing to doing all your service work or relying on side-work mechanics. We keep a stock original EGR cooler on the shelf to toss in a bus on the off chance we need to go to a Navistar dealer for something my mechanic friend can't fix in-house for us...

It's looking more and more like ill just get it into town and sell it for a bit of proffit lots of these buses going for 10-12k and then go for a 2007 with a pre maxxforce dt466 in it. I could also just do the bulletproff coolers from what ive been reading as well or figure out whats the best motor for a bus again.
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Old 07-06-2023, 07:19 AM   #15
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Just curious, did you drive the 1900 mile trip with it? Seen some videos of guys driving their 6.0’s, and having some issues. Haven’t seen a maxxforce dt version. Good luck!
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