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Old 07-23-2017, 08:49 PM   #2481
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im all asboiut lookin at A/C stuff!!.

as for coolers, im not sure anyone really knows how much fluid flows through one.. esp since it varies by transmission, and by line pressure (which varies throughout the cycle of shifts)..

you can always go oversize and install a temperature valve so you will reach normal operating temp even in cold weather..

stock school busses with ally 2000s are often just using the radiator loops and they seem to have longevity even in harsh conditions with stop n go..

im using the stock loops from my AT545 and even in the mid-90s heat we have been having my trans hasnt gotten warm.. (my A/C did but thats another story)..

a fan forced cooler gives you much more precise control over your trans temp.. the fan can dissipate heat even if your bus is slow-n-pull up a mountain pass.. a Deep transmission pan adds an extra gallon of fluid to the mix so its a ballasting effect as well.. and then said fan can cool down the fluid in the trans and the pan when you are back at light loads..

I dont know if you opted deep pan or not but I have always used them in every performance application..

the stock allison's biggest fault is that you can spin the C5(I think) clutches in 5th gear with too much torque... I mean a LOT of beyond-stock or mild tune torque.. you'll never see that happen to yours... and hopefully whoever programmed it, set it up so you have lockup in more gears than just 5 and 6.. Lockup is your friend in keeping the trans temps down.. a lot of applications like to unlock the converter at heavy throttle positions... im more a fan of downshifting and leaving the converter locked in heavy load situations... unlocking ther converter is often done as a way for the engine to reach its power-band if the converter stall is mated correctly to the engine.. however that makes tons of heat.. locked-converter and lower gear does the same with power band and runs it cooler..

id be interested ot know what kind of tune they have on your TCM.. the folks at CAC say they tune and gear all of their 4BT's so they are at highway cruise (65-70) in that 1700-1900 RPM range... and their tune locks the converter halfway through 2nd and keeps it locked all the way through 6th..
-Christopher
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Old 07-24-2017, 09:43 AM   #2482
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The Quest for Conditioned Air

Hey Cadillac...so far here is what I am working with to try and get over the road A/C:

1. I have the compressor installed. It is a brand new'02 Ford Expedition FS10 with an 8 groove belt (to match the Cummins).

2. The evaporator I am considering (mainly from a space available point) is this Danhard 18K btu wall mount unit.
Danhard Inc. 00826BE-95 Evaporator

The condenser is still up in the air but might possibly go in front of the CAC if it will fit and not interfere with the air flow too much...or maybe under the bus somewhere. There is NO under dash on this rig so everything has to hang out on walls, ceiling, underbelly and such.

Then there are all the other goodies to consider, like the accumulator, expansion valve, etc., etc.

I know that balancing all this stuff is critical to decent efficiency but have not a clue how to go about it. Any suggestions?
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:14 PM   #2483
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I Got Hosed Today! --- And it was a good thing. Spent much of the day digging around the back room at my local NAPA store (love those guys). Needed to find just the right combination of diameter, length and kinks & bends to hook up my new rad to the engine. It took a couple of trips but they were very patient with me and I finally found an upper and a lower hose that work.


The upper was an almost perfect fit and required no adjustment (chopping). The lower was a bit trickier and took some knife work to get from here to there properly.

I am now on the hunt for intercooler tubes and silicone connectors.



ONWARD!
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:34 PM   #2484
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Wow !

That looks beautiful. Radiator is piece of art.

Write down those hose numbers when you need replacements in 15 years.
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:44 PM   #2485
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nicde on the hoses!!!! placing 18k condensor in front of the charge cooler might be tough.. that will add 18k of heat to the mix.. plus wit hthe small footprint it may be toiugh to find.. under the bus with its own fan will ensure that you have good cooling on your front end..

im a fan of Danhard iunits, they have been used in Limos forever.. i didnt see though that this unit has a heater in it also? i like the look of it.. it has an expansion valve built in. (block type) - which is what most modern cars use nowadays.


this is a condensor I had thought of.. it can go underneath or on the roof...

Condenser 108 - 50 000 879

an evaporator like this one has the heater in it also.. you would have to box it in and duct it where you want it..

Evaporator 921 - 50 001 287

that one is close with the condensor.. (might have ot upsize the fan slightly on the condensor)..

your FS10 is likely going to work fine with whatever we throw at it as far as capacity.. they are designed for mild dual air systems like in excursions.

here is a little ceiling mounter that might go over top the windshield.. it is cool only.. but would blow down in the front of top of you where youd most likely want the A/C..
being sloped like it is im thinking it might not be a head banger..

Evaporator - 50 001 575

-Christopher
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:47 PM   #2486
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how come the engine is set so far back?.. is that to allow room for front suspension bits? just thinking how you couldve had more footwell if the engine was 6 inches forward.. or is my perception of distance off in the front..

love the hoses... also love going to NAPA to find them and see all the shapes and sizes made..

remember to snap pics of the labels so you know which ones you got!.. I do that with my custom A/C belts and fittings in case i have to get them again..
-Christopher
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:18 AM   #2487
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Hey Christopher, thanks for getting back --- ...and for all the great ideas. Those are some really interesting units and I will be trying out some measurements and fitting possibilities on all of them. The ambulance evaporator sounds like it would produce killer output while the little overhead unit would solve some space issues. I have pretty much concluded the condenser will have to go down under rather than in the nose.

And the only reason the engine is so far back is that the frame narrows so much in the front of these Art Deco chassis...it simply would not fit any farther forward. It is still so tight that I have some concerns about the motor slamming the frame. 4BT's are also known as 'Paint Shakers". They can thrash around quite a bit on start-up and shutdown.

And Roger keeping up with all the numbers...on everything. As an old school rod builder, you no doubt know that there can be so many oddball, "make it work" parts involved that no one could keep them all in their head. And trying to remember where some widget came from a few years down the road when it breaks or wears out just ain't gonna' happen.

My "Build Sheet" is four solid pages of small type and growing. I try to add part numbers, sources and even websites and phone numbers for anything I add at the end of each day. I have probably missed a couple of things along the way but hopefully nothing important or that I can't find an alternate "make it work" replacement for.

Thanks again. I'm off to do some measuring!
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:07 PM   #2488
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Still grinding away --- Spent the better part of the last three days measuring, checking parts online, re-measuring and trying to source all the tubing and silicone hose stuff to hook up my CAC. Never could find a decent or affordable single source for all of it. You'd think SOMEONE would specialize in turbo and intercooler stuff, but nooooooo. All had only bits and pieces. Wound up ordering the aluminum tubing from three different Chinese outfits on Epay so god only know what, if or when anything will show up.

Had an easier time with the silicone and t-bolt clamps. Got all that stuff from one USA source (no doubt THEY just buy it from China and mark it up).

Back to some interior work for a while I guess.

Having no luck at all finding an A/C evaporator that will fit in this dinky rig. None of the good stuff Chris sent is small enough. No idea where to look next. Back to the drawing board.



ONWARD!
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Old 07-28-2017, 10:21 AM   #2489
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A question about wipers --- I have looked all over and talked to a number of hot rodders but there does not seem to be such a thing as decent aftermarket electric windshield wipers. All the automotive units I have seen are crappy Chinese with only one or two speeds and a reputation for lasting a week or so while barely providing reasonable effectiveness.

Any of you builders out there had any luck with a particular brand/model?

Also looked at "marine" wipers but they are surprisingly limited too. Really well made but also really pricey.

Just hoping someone has had better luck than I tracking down something that works reasonably well and can be adapted to a screwball rig like mine. I can go at the top or the bottom of the windshield.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:19 AM   #2490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
A question about wipers --- I have looked all over and talked to a number of hot rodders but there does not seem to be such a thing as decent aftermarket electric windshield wipers. All the automotive units I have seen are crappy Chinese with only one or two speeds and a reputation for lasting a week or so while barely providing reasonable effectiveness.

Any of you builders out there had any luck with a particular brand/model?

Also looked at "marine" wipers but they are surprisingly limited too. Really well made but also really pricey.

Just hoping someone has had better luck than I tracking down something that works reasonably well and can be adapted to a screwball rig like mine. I can go at the top or the bottom of the windshield.
You may want to have a chat with the nice folk at AM Equipment in Jefferson, OR. They make retrofit electric wiper systems for trucks and buses that originally had air wipers.

Since they design and built replacements for all sorts of equipment I would think they might be able to help you with your build.

AM Equipment Windshield Wiper Systems & Durable DC Motors

Good luck!
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:12 PM   #2491
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Hey Tango, I pulled the wiper mechanism out of an old Dodge chassis Winebago from the '80's. The motor was wired for two speeds and seems to work just fine in combo with my Isuzu intermittent set up. Though I had to add a third crank to the wiper armature because of my very wide windshield, the winnie set up would fit your bus nicely. There is plenty of room between the outer body and the inner body panels to allow for the mechanism and the wiper motor can mount up and out of the way in front of the passenger seat. As for bell cranks, I went with parts from various year model Dodge Caravans which allowed for the selection of various shaft lengths and a direct fit with the Winnie parts. The motor itself is hidden behind a velcro held cover thereby making it easily accessible. I've yet to bang mt head on it. Jack

I did a mock up of the armature on a piece of plywood and then transferred the info to the bus.
[IMG][/IMG]

Pic of the cover.

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Old 07-28-2017, 01:56 PM   #2492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
A question about wipers --- I have looked all over and talked to a number of hot rodders but there does not seem to be such a thing as decent aftermarket electric windshield wipers. All the automotive units I have seen are crappy Chinese with only one or two speeds and a reputation for lasting a week or so while barely providing reasonable effectiveness.

Any of you builders out there had any luck with a particular brand/model?

Also looked at "marine" wipers but they are surprisingly limited too. Really well made but also really pricey.

Just hoping someone has had better luck than I tracking down something that works reasonably well and can be adapted to a screwball rig like mine. I can go at the top or the bottom of the windshield.
Tango, I presume you check Chalk's Bus Parts here in Houston. Their catalog (why not a DOGalog huh?) is online and they have a bunch of wiper motors that might work.......
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Old 07-28-2017, 03:56 PM   #2493
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Many thanks to all for the feedback. I'm off to hunt the Internet. Oh, wait...I'm already on that thing.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:57 PM   #2494
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Like the old song says...It's too darn Hot! --- The 99% humidity made for a heat index of 107. And with no air circulation, my shop was like a microwave oven. And not much to show for all the sweating I did. Paint prep work on the bus ceiling. Almost as many spare holes in it as there used to be in the floor. And given that it had been (long ago) painted with cheap-o latex house paint, it took quite a bit of work to get it ready for a proper oil based finish. Scruff pads, sandpaper, some Liquid Sandpaper, a little JB Weld to fill some holes, more sanding then a couple of coats of Zinsser 1-2-3 primer.

All overhead, naturally. Made for a wearing day...and a much appreciated Happy Hour.



ONWARD!
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Old 07-30-2017, 10:16 PM   #2495
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Another Killer Heat Day --- I can only work until about 3pm...after that it is simply unbearable. But...to keep Jack happy ("without pix, it didn't happen".)...here are a couple of images.


Still some prep work to wrap up, then, on to a finish coat of Sherwin Williams , oil based satin paint. Actually...very close to the color that was there.

And...speaking of colors...


These are what I am working with, inside and out. May or may not use the carpet. Still contemplating the pros & cons.

The satin black will go on the fenders and rub rails (courtesy of John Deere). The yellow/Tan will be the body color. The red rubber tile is for the floors with the dark red will be an accent on the dash and a couple of spots. The pale yellow will cover the rest of the interior (walls, etc.).



ONWARD!

PS... my frikkin' home A/C is out again!!!!!! I'm dyin' here!
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Old 07-31-2017, 08:03 AM   #2496
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wow! .. i was offline for a few days.. TRAVELLING.. just finished running the bus 1700 miles..

alas wow trying to think of what to do for an A/C unit.. the issue is that there needs to be a certain amount of space as the coil is designed for the freon to expand.. plus the need for a water pan to catch the condensate.. more compact might be modifying an underdash unit to be used behind the front seat and ducted.. my friend that runs a limo has a clamshell evaporator behind the driver seat and in front of the divider.. tis a DanHard.. there has to be something out there we can find.

wipers.. everything I built still had the factory wiper geometry in place.. and using an actual school bus wiper motor might be the way to go. wipers typically only have 2 speeds.. but you can use a switch that incorporates a delay circuit. that works with the standard 5 wire school bus motor.. cole hersey makes a bunch of them.

-Christopher
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Old 07-31-2017, 09:55 AM   #2497
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Hey Christopher --- sounds like the road trip was the kind I like...mechanically uneventful.

Yes...finding room for anything in this rig is challenging. And the configuration of the cockpit makes it even more so. It not only narrows down from 7-1/2 feet to about 4-1/2 at the dash...the roof also drops down in a severe curve making most of that area hard to utilize.

I did look at a Danhard "cabinet" model that was close but still a little too big to go overhead on a shelf without hanging out too far. Hate the "look" of a rooftop unit, but may not have many other choices. Maybe I could disguise it behind/under a roof-rack. Don't like the idea of all the lines and electrical penetrating the roof either.

I will be chatting the folks who make custom wiper systems this week to see if they can adapt to my space limitations. Yeah...it is an issue there too.

Ah...the joys of trying to bring an antique vehicle into the 21st Century.
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:05 PM   #2498
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G'day Tango, on happy Hour yet? I honestly don't know how you live in such heat. Bad enough up here.

I was looking at your bus pics and really like the wiper layout as is. Is there no motor left to drive them? I think I would have a switch on each one and probably only use the driver's side when driving. If it quits at any time, then you have the right side to help you get off the road safely.
Another thought is to have the wipers point down similar to what some small aircraft have. I kind of think the originals must have been vacuum operated so you might do that as a last resort.

John
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Old 07-31-2017, 03:44 PM   #2499
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Howdy John --- Happy Hour is on hold until the A/C guy gets here. The air in my house is dead and I almost am too.

The wipers that came on the bus were not original. The vacuum units had been long ago replaced with what looked like something off an MG. Probably a Lucas as it was one of those single motor set ups that drive two wipers via a wire cable arrangement. All they did was flop around and were just about useless. And in the process, they moved them from the factory location above the windshield to below. I found the original holes filled with Bondo or some such. I will probably have to go back on top as there is no longer space below. Hoping that the folks at AM can build something to fit. Would love to have pantograph/parallelogram wipers. We'll see what they say.
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Old 08-01-2017, 09:24 PM   #2500
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Finished painting the ceiling today --- So glad. Will get pix manana.

Meanwhile...should anyone ever have the need to replace an ancient GE67 bulb (like courtesy lamps. license plate lights and a few turn signals)...

I confirmed today that trusty old 1156 bulbs will fit that socket. And...there are tons of LED's that will mount in the 1156. Ordered four today.

After spending yet more hours online and at the local International Truck Center, I have given up on finding a factory bracket for the driveline brake cable. Will set about (once again) fabbing/cobbling something. More fun with grinders and welding and drilling...oh my!



ONWARD!
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