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Old 09-16-2012, 08:49 PM   #301
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Well...if nothing else, the stuff cuts real easy with a 4-1/2 in. grinder and cut-off blade. Now have a big ol' hole in the roof that I have to make a box to fit into to accommodate the AC. Then assemble another box over that to mate up with the roof deck. Ain't we got fun?

Onward!
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Old 09-16-2012, 10:06 PM   #302
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Tango, I didn't have a problem with "oil canning" when I welded the pop out on my bus. I was careful to let each weld cool a bit before the next and to spread the welds around the edges as I went. I used my small mig (125 amp/125 volts) at a setting of "3" heat and "7" wire speed ( to assure enough wire to make the weld before over heating the sheet metal). Thats 3 out of 4 and 7 out of ten whatevers and no problems.

49, if you run across that spark test info for the '30's I'd appreciate it if you'd pass it along. Jack
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Old 09-16-2012, 11:47 PM   #303
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

spark test is just a general test that you can do with your grinder. to learn farmer style, take known steel with high, medium and low carbon and watch the spark length as the amount of carbon will produce different lengths. once you know the general characteristics you can tell the carbon content in a ball park figure.. for welding purposes...
you can get in ballpark for tensile strength and hardness as well.
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:35 AM   #304
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Leave it to a farmer to figger out a nifty short cut that works. I'd most likely listen to one of them before a rocket scientist.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:23 AM   #305
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Dropped a bunch o' plans off at the local sheet metal shop along with my door frame. Hope they can skin it without too much distortion. The danged frame had to be straight down the leading edge and have a couple of inward curves on the back edge...that's how the "hole" is. Having it made with a 3/4" lip over the bottom & rear closing sides, the top will have a rubber weather flap. The other stuff consisted of a pair of covers to block out two windows, a box to cover the fuel fill where it comes through the wall and down through the floor and, a great big oddly shaped box that will house the A/C in the rear of the roof. It will also do double duty as the base for that part of the roof deck. Here's a couple of pix...


Big hole in the roof (picture an A/C here eventually). Note that the spacing between the inner & outer roof is not constant. Will likely make fabbing reinforcement for this area a real PITA.


Not quite as big a hole as Jack's, but kinda scary just the same.


Seems like all I'm doing these days is making big holes where stuff used to be...like an engine & tranny.

And...a note regarding paint choices.

In the process of working on this old girl, I discovered that someone, at some time, had either stripped or sandblasted most of the original paint off and re-painted it with latex house paint directly onto bare metal. Mostly down the sides but part way up the roof as well. While sanding I noticed that anywhere there was only the the badly peeling latex, the metal was rusty and pitted pretty badly in places. Nothing through the metal (as yet) but definitely a huge difference between those areas and the ones that still had some of the original school bus orange (they weren't yellow back then) underneath the latex. Those areas were clean and pit free even after 66 years. I have to conclude that the latex is a pretty horrible choice over metal. I felt obligated to pass this along since I've noticed a fair amount of folks going the latex route with their buses. Over existing paint it seems to be OK if less than perfect, but over bare metal...a really bad choice.

Onward!
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:36 PM   #306
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Tango, Good ob on the paint. When the feds began requiring the auto makers to use water borne primer is when we began to see paint delamination (white, silver and black mostly for some reason). Because the waterborne primmer had to be dried before rust formed it was cooked dry. The problem turned out to be that the color coat wasn't able to effectively melt into the primer (some colors) unless the primer was skuff sanded--not something you'd want to do on an assembly line. The problem persists.

My experience with house paint on autos is that it isn't a problem to paint over--except that you have to kill the rust where it shows up with a phosphate reducer or the rust will cause blisters in the new paint job. Also the house paint needs to be old and dry or you can't sand it effectively.

Back in the day of our busses there wasn't a Federal edict on school bus colors and both orange, yellow and green were common. The history of "National School Bus Glossy Yellow" is an interesting read on the Net.

Jack
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:02 PM   #307
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango, I've been thinking about our gravity feed gennys. I don't plan to keep the original gas tank on the top of my genny when it is mounted in the box. I'll still use gravity feed but from a remote tank. I think I'll modify a float type gas gauge sending unit to close a relay on an electric fuel pump. The sending unit will be in the original tank just not on the genny. That with a fuel cut off relay (also wired through a high temp thermocouple located in the box) should keep the gravity feed system working and not pressureize the system. it should also reduce the fire hazzard. What do you think? Jack
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:46 PM   #308
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Not sure if I'm following, but that's nothing new. If you're going gravity feed, seems all that's needed is a means to avoid over pressurizing at the carb if the new tank is higher than the old. But since I don't have a clue how the factory system works, I still have a lot to figure out to do.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:26 PM   #309
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango, I often fail to make things clear when I write. I guess what I am trying to do is use a primart tank (large) to fill a secondary tank which would be the original tank. The secondary tank would gravity feed the genny. All the rest of it (relays, solenoids, limit switch, modified sending unit etc) make it possible to keep the secondary tank full without adding any pressure to it and the genny carb.

The problem with just using a larger tank is that the extra fuel weight might overcome the float valve in the carb and cause flooding and possible overflow into the box proper (fire hazzard).

On my Yamaha genny there is a mechanical gas shut off right at the fuel outlet on the tank. Yours probably has the same thing? I don't know if that helped make things clearer or------? Jack
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:40 PM   #310
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

OK Jack--- Gotcha' now. Sounds like a pretty straightforward design that should be safe. I was not not clear on using the original tank.
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #311
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango, what's shakin? How's the door skinnin comming along? I can't seem to get out from under my genny- be-silent box. Six pounds of genny in a five pound box--that old problem. I'm sure glad I don't have some old "A H" boss breathing down my neck or I'd be in deep dodo over it. Jack
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:17 AM   #312
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Hey Jack --- Scheduling with the local sheetmetal shop is pretty loosey goosey. I typically just sit and wait for a call from those guys telling me something is done. That said, hope to have something in hand this coming week. Anxious to get started actually building something on instead of just cutting & ripping stuff off.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:06 PM   #313
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Latest --- spent the last couple of days repairing the wheel wells. Rusted through in a number of places like most older rigs. Discovered that welding new metal onto some that is "almost" rusted through is tricky. Seems no matter how low I dial in my mig, it blows the old (thin) sheetmetal away. Oh well, at least now I have more practice at tacking...and grinding...and tacking...and grinding...and...
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:56 AM   #314
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango, The forum shows that you posted this morning but I can't find anything--any ideas? Maybe the moderators decided we are a bad influence on each orther or something. Nah, it couldn't be that
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Old 10-05-2012, 03:54 PM   #315
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Howdy Jack --- I did leave a note for "retro101" regarding his shorty, but that was it.

I did just pick up a boatload of $heet metal from my local $hop (ouch), so now I finally have a few things to add onto the old girl instead of just cutting stuff off. They made the box for the A/C that will fill the hole in the roof, fabbed a couple of window deletes and a bunch of reinforcing strips. Spent last night test fitting the A/C box and it looks like it will work. Got my door skinned too, just waiting to see if the bugger fits. Will go by there Saturday and try it out. Will try and get a few pix while I'm at it.

How's your rig coming along? Haven't seen anything lately. Sure do wish I had access to some of the metal working gear I've seen in the background of your shots. Especially after today's tab. Course I'd still be short the skills necessary to do anything with said gear but maybe I could pull off a few simple right angles.

Ah well...Onward!
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Old 10-08-2012, 10:32 PM   #316
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Well Howdy --- after much ado and many dollars spent fabbing sheet metal, I finally got to start adding a few things rather than just subtracting them. Gotta admire Trunt's sheet metal abilities. Had to reinforce the area around the cut-out for the A/C since it will also carry much of the load for the yet to come roof deck. In the pix below you can see the additions made to the structure. Basically I turned the inner & outer roof skins into a ladder beam by adding spacers then tying them all together. Next, the big box for the A/C will get fitted into the hole. Also made a couple of window deletes and had the front door frame skinned. That was the tricky & expensive part. And it doesn't fit right. I'm guessing that the welding they did torqued it slightly out of shape. Damn. May have to cut a bunch of kerfs to get it back where it needs to be. Not at all happy about that. I guess that's what I get for going with such an old rig. They were made very differently back in '46. Nothing is square...or straight. All oddball angles and curves. I've come to the conclusion that what I need most is not an RV builder to help me on this project...but rather a master ship builder. Someone at home with lots of compound curves and goofy angles.


To avoid the curve calculations, I just tacked a number of different length chunks of 1-1/2" square tube in place...


...then tied them all together. Amazingly solid now. Also added pieces at each end that now complete the full surround.


This is the big a$$ mongo box that will go in the hole and house the A/C. Only about 3 inches of the bottom intrude into the inside.


And here is the new front door. I let the shop talk me into using 14 gauge steel to skin it (to save money?) but now the bugger weighs around a hundred pounds! There will be a big window across the top and another small, vertical "curb viewer" near the bottom. The good news is that the hinges I'm using are made for reefer doors and rated at 500#'s each, so hopefully it won't sag.

Onward!
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:39 PM   #317
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Hey Tango, I thought there for a minute I was looking at the cutout in my bus! I like the way you added the tubing to add strength to the roof. I didn't have to do that much since I was only creating stand up room so I just welded the side walls to the inner and outer roof skins. I know what you mean about needing a shipfitter but you won't have any problem getting the door to fit---other than a loss of time. I'm enjoying a little off time from the project while I wait for an injured knee to start working again--too much fun keeping up with the young cadets while training them. Soo, I dragged the wife to Yosemete, her favorite place, and about the only way I can keep myself from working on the bus. I have done more work on my bus and will post if I can get Photobucket to work from this "remote outpost". Jack
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:56 PM   #318
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Howdy Jack --- Kinda figgerd something was up (or down) since I hadn't seen any progress pix lately. Take care of yourself first, the bus ain't going anywhere. And I can't think of a better place to recoup than Yosemite! Damn I'm jealous. Would almost be worth tweaking my trick knee if I thought it would get me there. Have great trip and get well soon. We all miss living vicariously through your skill set.
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Old 10-11-2012, 10:41 PM   #319
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Fitted the new A/C box into the roof today. Still need to weld it all up, but at least it appears to go into the hole I made for it. Trying to cut a "square" opening in a compound curved roof is tricky I discovered.


From the outside...

...looking in...


...and from the inside looking out...


...and from the side you can see that only a small portion intrudes. The A/C will hang out another couple of inches, but given the space available, it seemed like a reasonable compromise. Might oughta' pad it anyway.

Onward!
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:01 AM   #320
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Re: '46 Chevy Shorty

Looks like you acomplished what you set out to do...... congrats, Looks great!
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