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Old 04-07-2016, 10:45 PM   #1501
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Piddlin' --- yeah...I'm still waiting on machine shop parts. Meanwhile, it's some little stuff and one biggie.


Finished up the top to my house battery box. Coated the inside with several layers of truck bed liner and added some strips of rubber foam to minimize rattle. Added a couple of small lift handles while I was at it.
Whoopie.


Then there are these little guys. A 10 degree pinion angle shim taped to a three degree shim. The easy part. Now I am dropping the rear axle so I can mount these suckers. Not the easiest task when working alone.
Whatcha' think Jack? Do they need a little more tape or will this do?
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:18 AM   #1502
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Still at it --- Haven't heard from Jack so I decided I might need more than masking tape to hold my pinion shims in place so I did the following...


Ground bevels on the ends and a couple of gouges on each side.


Locked'em in place...


...then melted some metal into the gaps.


A few quick hits with a grinder and a file and...WahLah. Almost looks like one big shim. Now I just have to wait for new U-bolts to see if the new angle will work or not. Seems I spend a lot of time waiting on things these days...

ONWARD!
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Old 04-10-2016, 09:42 AM   #1503
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Ok Tango-I'm gonna throw this in to confuse you. I was doing some research on the set up of my race car. I came across a good (very long) discussion from Ron Sutton race cars about rear end design. Take it as gospel or a B.S.-but I'll throw it out for you.
""Now is a good time to pre-set your pinion angle … before you weld on the housing brackets.
d. Make sure the pinion of the rear end truly lines up with your driveshaft & transmission (top view) so the driveshaft is not running at a side angle.
e. Find a flat surface on the rear end that you believe to equal to the pinion … or 90 degrees to the pinion … where you can place a digital angle gauge (inclimeter).
f. Measure the driveshaft angle.
g. Roll the housing to place the pinion at a 2-3 degree downward ANGLE DIFFERENCE from the driveshaft.

* This is NOT a 2-3° angle from the ground, unless the driveshaft runs level with the ground. If the driveshaft runs uphill (uphill going from the rear end to the transmission from a side view) at 4° … the you want the pinion going uphill at 1-2° ... to achieve 2-3° downward angle difference. ""
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:21 AM   #1504
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Thanks sdwarf ---- That is precisely the plan. I am basing all my numbers on careful measurements of the Jackshaft and rear U-joint angles. I won't be welding the new shims to the axle until I have pulled everything into place and taken another measure. There is still the possibility that I may have to either add more to the shims or adjust the angle on the Jackshaft down a degree or so relative to the rear axle to achieve the right relationship between the two. The ideal is to have them aligned at the same angle under a load which requires the rear axle to be between 1-1/2 to 3 degrees below what the front angle is to compensate for applied torque which raises the angle on the rear axle.

There is some great info (for any poor souls who may need it) in the PDF below from Spicer...

http://www2.dana.com/pdf/J3311-1-HVTSS.PDF
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Old 04-10-2016, 12:12 PM   #1505
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Tango, do you have the oldest bus on the site?
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Old 04-10-2016, 04:47 PM   #1506
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Hey Tango. How are the pins set up on your axle and spring? On the original application did the spring center bolt drop into a cavity in the axle or did the axle have a nub to fit into the original shim pack on the bottom while the spring center bolt fit into a hole in the top of the shim pack? How are you going to do yours? Jack
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Old 04-10-2016, 05:17 PM   #1507
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Originally Posted by Docsgsxr View Post
Tango, what kind of Ac system are you using? I want to install something to run off my motor to cool the driver's area when I am driving, but don't know what I should look for. I was thinking something off an SUV would suffice, but didn't know how easy it would be to have lines manufactured to go from the back of my MVP to the driver's area.
for my old bluebid I built custom dash air into my Defrosters.. I dont know on your bus if your defroster vents are slots across the windshield or the round twistable vents.. on my bird they were twistable.. so I fashioned a honda civic evaporator into the intke side of each defroster unit.. and used plastic drain pans under each one with a rubber hose going out through the floor and slanting toward the back of the bus.. so it sucked the water out easily when driving.. I ran a sanden 508 compressor .. since that bus had a chevy 454 it was easy to find a hang-off bracket set for the compressor...

in summer I swivelled the round vents on the driver side around to me and it kept me nice N cool.. in winter if I turned on the compressor it acted as a dehumidifier and I never had fogged up windshields...

another route to go is a Limo Base unit which is often ductable with flexible hose.. and angle-bracket style mounts are made for vents so you can run flex-hose up from the evaporator to wherever you want the vents.... (which in most busses theres planty of room for a small unit under the dash.. )

and yet another way is a Jeep Wrangler YJ / CJ under-dash unit.. you can even often find the indoor pieces of those in the bomeyard from wrecked wrangler YJ's.. IHC scouts and jeep wagoneers used a nicer version and can still be found occasionally...

I will caution about using a front radiator mounted condenser on a Diesel Bus though.. most older busses use a mechanical / thermal fan clutch for the radiator fan and has a hard time "sensing" that the A/C needs cooled.. so you can run some pretty high head pressures if your bus engine is "cold" but the bus interior is HOT.. (ie you go out at noon to drive after it sat all night and its blasted hot in the sun.. cold engine hot bus.. High A/C load.. fan clutch likely going to not spin your fan very fast).. so you may want a "pusher fan. electric" on the front of your condenser. if you have an electric / air fan clutch you can fit a pressure switch so the fan is called for whenever the A/C requires it..

another thng is that on many busses the turbo inter-cooler is Beside the radiator up front.. so locating your condenser in front of this may result in the intake air charge for your engine being warmed up quite a bit when the A/C load is high..

my old bus was Gasoline and I had installed a 5000 CFM Lincoln Mark VIII fan to cool it with a vari-speed controller I built so I had a sensor in the A/C to monitor...

I dont know if an electric Mark VIII fan would cool a Bus or not.. im unsure of the CFM of belt-fans on these busses..

just some pointers.. I plan to tie into my skirt-mounted condensor on my newest endeavor to run an evaporator for the front.. so i wont need one in front of the motor..

you can run multiple evaporators in PARALLEL with a single condenser and compressor as long as you use TxV valves to regulate the refrigerant flow through each evaporator.. running closed-loop is even better but much harder to "dial-in"..

-Christopher
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:19 PM   #1508
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Robin --- Not sure, but very likely. If for no other reason than most people have better sense than to try and convert a 70+ year old school bus into their retirement home.

Jack --- the bolt comes down thru the springs and fits into a hole in the shim(s). It originally went into a hole in the pad on the axle. I will be welding the shim arrangement onto the spring pads after I get everything lined up so for all intents and porpoises...they will become the new pad.

Cadillac --- Unfortunately, I don't have defrosters. Or a dash...or a firewall at the moment for that matter. But...the plan is to use an aftermarket dash unit connected to a Sanden (S-10 as I recall?). It will all have to be hand built like everything else on this Frankenbus and I do hope to work out some kind of defrosting system along the way. I just hate fogged windshields.

Of course there is the old farmers trick for keeping a window from fogging up. Rub it down real well with a plug of chewing tobacco. Unchewed, that is.
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:52 PM   #1509
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IMG_4117.JPG

IMG_4119.JPG

IMG_4121.JPG

IMG_4122.JPG

IMG_4124.JPG

Hey Tango, this is an S10 defrost my brother did this afternoon for his P/U....no AC going in. It's an '87 single cab short box with a 383 stroker.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:00 PM   #1510
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Looks great. Are those hard drive/computer fans?
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:12 PM   #1511
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...yes they are.
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Old 04-10-2016, 08:26 PM   #1512
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great build.. but it wont likely push enough hot air without A/C to de-ice a windshield...

anyway the fact the bus has no defrosters or heaters is great because you can build from the ground up.. I wouldve saved the heaters because they are about the best you can get as far as capacity... but new ones can be built.. or you can see if you can get some parts from a bus bone yard.. unless you stashed the original units somewhere..

the best way to DEFOG a window is to integrate an Air-conditioner.. it dehudifies the air...

fortunately companies still make all kinds of school bus defroster vents and such..

the Sanden compressor you are speaking of is a Sanden 508 or Seltec 8390.. you can run 2 evaporators off of that and use a skirt mounted condenser.. its good up to about 50,000 BTU.. if you plan to run it at close to that capacity and want good cooling at Idle you can go to a 13cid compressor like a Sanden 708 or a Thermoking TM-21,,
they will give you more capacity at idle... I dont know how much A/C you want from the engine.. but it wouldnt be hard to get you 18-20k BTU up front...

if you go with a single duct and 2 blowers / heaters.. one on each side of the window (like the factory did).. you can put round vents on top that you can spin around for defrosting or for A/C...

Untitled Document

http://www.midwestbusparts.com/index...oducts_id=1124

did you keep the driver console wit hthe heater in the bottom?

-Christopher
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Old 04-10-2016, 10:25 PM   #1513
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All this thing came with was the tiny, original 1946 box heater under the dash (both now gone) with no ducting at all and fixed vents. And having spent most of it's life up in Utah, I can only imagine how ineffective it was at heating, let alone clearing the windshield. I hope to do a little better starting from scratch. And yes, tying in the A/C to the vents is what I'm shooting for. Unfortunately, I just found out the guy who built my last two custom systems has retired. He built nearly all the on-board HVAC for Schlumberger's oilfield seismic trucks and was a genius. Kept the early computer gear at a happy 65 degrees in the middle-east deserts where it was routinely 130 outside. All done with little Sanden units. He even made mini-reefers nearly the size of my bus using the same gear that could freeze meat! Now THAT'S cool.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:50 PM   #1514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
All this thing came with was the tiny, original 1946 box heater under the dash (both now gone) with no ducting at all and fixed vents. And having spent most of it's life up in Utah, I can only imagine how ineffective it was at heating, let alone clearing the windshield. I hope to do a little better starting from scratch. And yes, tying in the A/C to the vents is what I'm shooting for. Unfortunately, I just found out the guy who built my last two custom systems has retired. He built nearly all the on-board HVAC for Schlumberger's oilfield seismic trucks and was a genius. Kept the early computer gear at a happy 65 degrees in the middle-east deserts where it was routinely 130 outside. All done with little Sanden units. He even made mini-reefers nearly the size of my bus using the same gear that could freeze meat! Now THAT'S cool.
For some reason I got you mixed up with a guy who ripped all his modern Defrosters out of a newer bus.. Yes I would start from scratch on yours too.. Mobile HVAC has always been my thing like your friend ... I've built a lot of old cars and vans.. My trademark is I a/c everything lol.. For me the fun is in designing , building and even writing the software for a system ...

Too bad we aren't closer I could have some fun A/C your sweet old bus!! With the limited space I think I'd try to combine aircon and defrost into one ducting .. And then add a floor heater only to keep your feat warm.. Is this going to be mainly a driving rig or a camper that is on shore power for the rear a/c?
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Old 04-11-2016, 11:51 AM   #1515
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Howdy Cadillac --- Ya...I wish you were closer too. My rig will log lots of miles then spend a few weeks either boondocking or at camp sites. I have so very little space up front I am looking at a remote exchanger (like some of the trunk mounted systems) and just piping it where needed. I have built in an 8000 BTU window unit that should handle things when parked (this bus is tiny) but I'm now looking at what it would take to also run it over-the-road. I have a 250 amp alternator that may be able to drive it if I can figure out the electrical side of things. But, even if I do, I still want some air & heat up front along with defrost. Should be an interesting build.

Here is the 14 gauge steel box I constructed to hold the window unit...

/p/dqKkfx]
It was built over the rear door around an 8K high efficiency window unit that just blows straight forward.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:06 PM   #1516
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cool build on the window unit box! a 250 amp alternator will run a window unit as long as you can overcome the startup current...

this unit here

Climax Air | DC Inverter Portable Air Conditioner w/ Dual Hose | Worlds Most Efficient Portable AC

is a low-startup current unit that pulls a lot less power than a window unit.. though they are designed to sit on the floor or be hung on a wall.. then theres just 2 pipes that need to go outside..

I have the "cousins" of this unit in my house.. and even maxxed out I only ever see about 1300 watts and thats pushing 14,000 BTU of cooling..

your biggest issue with the window unit will be Water.. if the slant of a window unit isnt perfect the water will drain all over inside.. (ie if your bus is parked tilted a little or parked slightly downhill, etc..)..

I dont think upfront will be too hard.. there are some pretty compact systems out there.. vintage-air isnt cheap but they know how to stuff A/C and heat into quite tight spots. (dash air solution).. get creative with the vents.. so only need one set of ducts for cooling and defrosting.. and then a couple floor-vents for heating only.. (or maybe cooling depending on how hot the dog-house gets)..

on my old gasoline blue-bird I wished I had put cooling vents down near the floor as that 454 V-8 and floor around my feet got hot.. and all my dash-cooling as up high..

-Christopher
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:30 PM   #1517
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Thanks Caddy --- Very interesting...I've not seen a portable before that A/C guys didn't laugh at. DC Inverter eh? Is the inverter built in and using 110 input? Could it not be wired to bypass the inverter and just run directly on 12 volt? Either way, I can see how it might be a great fit for a lot of RV 'ers if it works as well as you say.

And Roger getting the water outside. The box I built for my A/C includes a large pan with a drain line that will (hopefully) handle the condensate. Heck, here in Houston (Humidity Central) my five ton units must pump out 25+ gallons a day each. Given that water has become a commodity, I have wondered why (or if) someone hasn't built a system to capture all that output. I would imagine some of the big buildings here create thousands of gallons.
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Old 04-11-2016, 12:42 PM   #1518
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Probably a dc inverter design like that would run high voltage DC. The 120 ac mains yields about 170 volts dc when rectified. I'd guess their "dc inverter" power supply takes that level of dc and produces variable-voltage maybe variable-frequency 3-phase ac output to drive the compressor. The air fans might still use boring 120 v ac motors. It'd sure be interesting to take the vehicle 12 v and do direct dc-dc conversion to the 170 volt inverter input; that would be more efficient than 12 dc to 120 ac to 170 dc.
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:10 PM   #1519
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Probably a dc inverter design like that would run high voltage DC. The 120 ac mains yields about 170 volts dc when rectified. I'd guess their "dc inverter" power supply takes that level of dc and produces variable-voltage maybe variable-frequency 3-phase ac output to drive the compressor. The air fans might still use boring 120 v ac motors. It'd sure be interesting to take the vehicle 12 v and do direct dc-dc conversion to the 170 volt inverter input; that would be more efficient than 12 dc to 120 ac to 170 dc.

the "inverter" is not a 12 volt inverter.. as mentioned Above.. the AC mains are rectified to DC and then a driver board produces 3 phase Variable Frequency to drive the compressor.. I have a mini-split torn apart in my basement that i use for writing my HVAC software if you guys want any pics..

im not sure that you are any better off trying to up-convert the 12 volt to a useable source for the internal inverter board.. everything is communicating on these units.. the main computer board talks to the various parts.. so simply building an inverter board wouldnt work unless you crack the protocol.. the expansion valves are even electronic .. ive cracked most all of the protocols for my home units so i can control them how I like.. but its a royal Pain and every brand is different.. I had thought about using them in my bus. I have 3 spare units from when I built my custom HVAC.. trouble is the condenser coils wont fit under a bus correctly.. and the copper tubing is so flimsy on them there's no way I'll ever braze on it to split the coils they run on R-410A which is such high pressure that I cannot find a High pressure rated coil for a Bus..(all mobile units are rated R-134a pressures) so down my basement thise spare units will stay..

the A/C water.. if you buy a good window unit it will have a slinger-wheel which slings the condensate water up onto the condenser coil to help with more efficient cooling.... some of the large commercial rooftop units I worked on have a little pump that takes the condensate and does the same thing.. slings it on the coils.. but the misting nozzles clog up all the time and in general for the amount of cooling gain you get arent worth the effort..

one of the hotels I recently installed a VoIP system in.. routed all that water from the room units down the outside of the building and it waters the flowers around the building.. they said they havent irrigated at all since those little pipes were installed wit htheir new A/C units...

the water is evenly distributed as each column of rooms has a single downward channel..



-Christopher
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:21 PM   #1520
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This whole A/C conversation has been fascinating. I don't need A/C in my bus right now because I just go to the mountains for A/C, but if I build another bus for travel in hot climates I at least now know what is possible. This site never ceases to amaze me in the amount of knowledge and experience that people share. Thanks Tango and everyone else that contributes.
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