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Old 01-30-2018, 06:23 PM   #101
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Sounding good.

Next time you're bored with nothing to do I might be able to help you out.
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Old 01-30-2018, 07:54 PM   #102
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how do you disassemble the oil cooler and put it back together? I was thinking of pulling pine and checking it on my 444E, motor has a lot of hours and miles and that thing sits low so i figured id pull and check it.. I only had oil temp concerns at high RPM (10-15 degrees above coolant).. but still might be a nice spring project to check it all out.. '

-Christopher
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Old 01-30-2018, 11:10 PM   #103
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how do you disassemble the oil cooler and put it back together? I was thinking of pulling pine and checking it on my 444E, motor has a lot of hours and miles and that thing sits low so i figured id pull and check it.. I only had oil temp concerns at high RPM (10-15 degrees above coolant).. but still might be a nice spring project to check it all out.. '

-Christopher
If it is the same design (which based on pictures I'm looking at, it is...), the cast end pieces are only held in place by the o-rings. Once you unbolt it from the block, you can tap the pieces off the main tube using a rubber mallet. Clean everything up... new o-rings.. lots of assembly grease.. and push it back together. I've done 2 by hand... 1 I had to use a press to reassemble. None of them have leaked so far. The new o-rings will make for a VERY tight fit going back together.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:00 AM   #104
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Super cool! Are there any guideline rules used for where oil T should be in reference to coolant?
I notice in my brand new hemi truck that it’s oil T is always above coolant temp , it’s a gasser.

From what I’ve read the 7.3 and 444echavexthe same and adequate oil coolers stock, I don’t see aftermarket upgrade parts like I do the 6.0
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Old 01-31-2018, 09:03 AM   #105
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I'd say you are fine. Most say, that I can find anyways, is under heavy loads, 240 oil temp is about the safe limit.

As far as the 6.0 and all of its available upgrades to the oil cooler system... that is because the 6.0's factory design is garbage and the OEM coolant (when not properly maintained) allows for silicate drop-out which ends up plugging the tiny orifices in the cooler. Just behind the oil cooler in the same cooling loop is the EGR coolers.. so when the oil cooler plugs, the EGR coolers can't get sufficient flow (no other route for coolant to go other then through the oil cooler first) When that happens, the EGR coolers can (and typically do) flash the coolant to steam and rupture the cooler. The main reason people closely watch oil/coolant temp correlation on the 6.0 is because the cooler itself performs really well and will keep oil temp within a few degrees of coolant temp. As it starts to plug up, the oil temp will gradually start running higher then the coolant temps.

In other words, I wouldn't be overly worried about it.
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:46 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Mr4btTahoe View Post
I'd say you are fine. Most say, that I can find anyways, is under heavy loads, 240 oil temp is about the safe limit.

As far as the 6.0 and all of its available upgrades to the oil cooler system... that is because the 6.0's factory design is garbage and the OEM coolant (when not properly maintained) allows for silicate drop-out which ends up plugging the tiny orifices in the cooler. Just behind the oil cooler in the same cooling loop is the EGR coolers.. so when the oil cooler plugs, the EGR coolers can't get sufficient flow (no other route for coolant to go other then through the oil cooler first) When that happens, the EGR coolers can (and typically do) flash the coolant to steam and rupture the cooler. The main reason people closely watch oil/coolant temp correlation on the 6.0 is because the cooler itself performs really well and will keep oil temp within a few degrees of coolant temp. As it starts to plug up, the oil temp will gradually start running higher then the coolant temps.

In other words, I wouldn't be overly worried about it.
good deal. the most I ever saw was 10 degrees above coolant temp and thats with my foot to the floor on a several mile grade running it as fast as the engine would go with my old AT545.. with my new 1000 trans even down to 4th gear i only ever see about 5 degrees above coolant temp on a long grade.. back to 5th gear and it comes right down.. i can watch it drop.. 6th gear it will run a degree or two below coolant temp.. (makes sense since it appears the oil cooler gets the freshly cooled coolant from the radiator.. and the coolant temp sensor is in an area after the coolant is heated by the engine.)...

sounds like im just fine and dont even need to take my oil cooler apart..
im of the mind if it works good and doesnt leak then not to touch it.

-Christopher
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Old 01-31-2018, 10:59 AM   #107
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While the new synthetics handle heat much better than the
"old style" fluids, anything from 200* up is definitely degrading the fluid. And the higher it goes, the faster it degrades...rapidly. And the trans life expectancy goes down in direct proportion to the heat going up.

About 180-190 is ideal according to many studies including those done by Allison.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:58 AM   #108
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While the new synthetics handle heat much better than the
"old style" fluids, anything from 200* up is definitely degrading the fluid. And the higher it goes, the faster it degrades...rapidly. And the trans life expectancy goes down in direct proportion to the heat going up.

About 180-190 is ideal according to many studies including those done by Allison.
Engine oil temp... not transmission temp. For transmissions, I'd say 150-180 is the butter zone.. warm enough to evaporate moisture yes cool enough that the fluid lasts a LONG time. The fluid will rapidly break down above 220... I completely toasted a trans when the converter clutch failed to hold lock-up.. fluid hit 240-260 for an hour. Fluid was black as coal when I drained it. The cooler.. the better as long as moisture is handled.


Now ss far as the reasoning for pulling it apart and cleaning it/resealing it is more to replace the old/cracked o-rings because they will fail... just a matter of when. I've rebuilt 2 before they started leaking.. 1 that was leaking. All of the seals looked to be in the same condition so it was just a matter of when.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:50 PM   #109
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"Ideal" temp for tranny fluid is indeed 175* for conventional fluid. Some of the new synthetics are happy at 190. Anything over those numbers for each type fluid will also shorten the life of the trans. And it doesn't take much for very long.

The chart below (courtesy of The Transmission Guy) is almost identical to the Allison info (I couldn't find it this time). Note that running at 220* will reduce tranny fluid life by half compared to keeping it at 175*.



Be cool Honey Bunny...be cool.
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Old 01-31-2018, 07:56 PM   #110
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I agree 100%.... But we were talking about engine oil temperature... Not transmission temperature. Chris had asked about pulling apart his oil cooler and the temperature of the engine oil... Which is what I was replying to earlier.

His engine oil temp was a little over coolant temp which is completely normal with our style of oil cooler and oil temp upwards of 240 isn't unheard of when pushing the engine. He was well within the safe limits of engine oil temp... Obviously the cooler the better however.
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Old 01-31-2018, 08:26 PM   #111
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allison told me 190-200 in summer with Transynd was perfectly within normal range..
im running all transynd in my allison 1000 ..
my trans even driving through hot july florida last year and then into the mountains of the carolinas never got above 192.. so i figure my stock radiator loop cooler is adequete.


and yeah thanks 4bt! looks like I really dont need to touch my oil cooler.. im sure with 167k miles and 9100 hours ive probably got a little more blowby when i load it down too which would cause higher oil temps.. since i can literally watch it go down after im off the load, its cooling..
I figure at somepoint ill just need to rebuild the engine.. at that point ill rebuiuld the cooler too.

-Christopher
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:27 PM   #112
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Yeah...as noted...Transynd (along with some other synthetics) will handle higher temps for longer periods (that's what is in my Allie). But the temps on that chart are for standard issue transmission fluid...not engine oil. And they are in line with Allison guidelines.
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Old 01-31-2018, 11:51 PM   #113
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More progress!

Got the big trans cooler mounted. It takes up a good portion of the grill area and is twice the size of the Jasper cooler upgrade that was there. I didn't take the time to build a custom mounting bracket.. just bent up the universal strap mounts that came with the cooler and its pretty rigid.
IMG_20180131_174421723 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

New all aluminum 4 row radiator in... So shiny...
IMG_20180131_224228573 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180131_224309912 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

Shroud and fan back in place...
IMG_20180131_224239043 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

New heater hoses..
IMG_20180131_224521724 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

All that is left for this portion is the upper radiator hose.. filling with fluids... installing the batteries and making new cables. Then I've got a list of parts to order for the brake overhaul.

Anyways.. not sure if I'll be making much progress this weekend as the weather is not going to cooperate from the sounds of it... we'll see though.
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:00 PM   #114
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Well.. made some progress then back-tracked a bit. First up.. we'll play learn from my mistake. Lol

So I filled the cooling system today.. pressure tested... and found that my oil cooler is leaking. One of the new gaskets between the block and cooler didn't seal properly. Now the learning... when you refill a cooling system that you've had apart and replaced a bunch of parts in.. even if you've flushed the components.. go on and fill it with distilled water for testing. This way, you don't end up with $15-$20 per gallon fresh coolant all over the ground. Plus, an extra flush won't hurt a thing.

Thankfully, it was a minor drip so I was able to drain and capture the majority of the new coolant in clean pans.. only lost ~1/2 gallon or so.

Anyways..

Full belly of Delo 5w40
IMG_20180203_155608991 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

Full (well was anyways) cooling system... Peak Fleetcharge
IMG_20180203_155620134 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

Pressure testing... oddly, it held fine for a few minutes, then it started to drop when the gasket let go.
IMG_20180203_155555768_HDR by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

While draining the cooling system back down (takes a while when you are trying to keep things clean).. I put the new batteries in the tray. Pair of Deka G31s. I could have made the tray a touch bigger.. they won't be fun to remove.
IMG_20180203_170548058 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

I've got the new gaskets on the way for the oil cooler so I'm planning on pulling that back off tomorrow and sealing it up again. May skim coat the gasket with red rtv or copper coat the gaskets this time.

Other then fixing that, all that is left is to button up some minor stuff and make new battery cables. Waiting on 2/0 cable at the moment.

Anyways, more to come soon I hope.
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Old 02-04-2018, 10:52 PM   #115
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Just got done buttoning up re-resealing the oil cooler. Didnt mess with the o-rings.. just pulled the cooler back down, cleaned the block (spotless).. cleaned the cooler surfaces again.. new set of gaskets coated in Permatex high tack.

Gonna let everything set up overnight... I'll re-fill the cooling system and check it for leaks after work tomorrow.

All this while laying in ice and snow. Thanks weather for having my back.. lol.
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:19 PM   #116
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Coolant system is full... no leaks! YAY!!

With ice and snow coming down again... I decided to make up the battery cables. 2/0 goodness with cast heavy duty ends... soldered up and heat shrunk.

IMG_20180206_173324278 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180206_173331582 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180206_174942318 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180206_184242167 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180206_190328715 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180206_190343151_HDR by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

IMG_20180206_193054721 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

Also decided how to wire my gauges. Since all the lights are LED... they wont draw much. There is no radio in dash... (I'll be installing one overhead and wiring into the overhead power distribution)... so I'm going to use a radio install harness I had laying around. It has the wiring built in for dash lights, grounds, ignition hot, battery hot, and ground. Perfect.

IMG_20180206_193448191 by acidburn02zts, on Flickr

More to come when the weather clears up a bit.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:01 AM   #117
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Now THAT'S what cables are supposed to look like! Great job...now come do mine.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:36 AM   #118
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Now THAT'S what cables are supposed to look like! Great job...now come do mine.
Now that's an idea... start offering a cable service. Lol. Now I'm just trying to sort out the OEM power distribution and all the coach tie-ins. I think I've got it figured out... just need to make 1 more cable. Hopefully I've got enough left.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:02 PM   #119
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Just ordered all the power distribution fittings and such I need to button up the electrical rebuild.

I'll be deleting the oem fender mount solenoid (which only works as a distribution stud and sends power to the trigger wire for the starter solenoid). I'm running a single 2/0 feed that will be fused at 250a up to the driver's side of the engine bay. A single 3/8 insulated distribution stud will be used in place of the big solenoid. I'll also use a standard relay to send power to the starter signal line instead of the big solenoid. I ordered 25' of 5/8 split loom for main cable protection under the bus. Also ordered 2 pieces of thermal insulation for cables to protect them where they will run over the exhaust (mounted to the floor of the bus from the underside). A single ANL fuse holder and some 250a fuses (I'll keep a couple extra on board just in case).

That leaves me with 2 main battery connections.. 1 - 2/0 starter feed and 1 - 2/0 battery hot feed that runs to the engine bay that is fused. 2 - 2/0 grounds (one off each battery) directly to the frame.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:43 PM   #120
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I have done a boatload of soldering in my life but never on anything remotely close to that large.

Can you give us a nickle tour of your assembly process? Tools & materials?

Thanks.

S.
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