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Old 06-16-2019, 10:28 PM   #41
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On the (flat)face of it, it sounds a viable candidate, altho:
Dark roof+desert Sun = mobile kiln.
Heat and noise from the engine are less bothersome if it will spend protracted periods parked.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrysCat View Post
I found a 32” flatnose 7.3 Paired to an Allison trans with air brakes. Waiting for mileage info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrysCat View Post
I also found this bus from the same dealer. i think i may be in love unless someone can dissuade me.
1992 AmTran
189,000
32 foot International bus
5.9 cummins six cylinder turbo Diesel engine with the P 7100 injection pump
MT 643 Allison automatic with lock up torque converter
All gauges and lights work as they should
the asking price is 5500.

The engine is in the front. Would extra insulation be enough for noise and heat? Considering I can pick between the two once I arrive it may come down to the feel of each bus in particular. Thoughts and advice?

A pro to this bus would be that I wouldnt need to paint it any time soon as it is white with a red top.
Hmmm... Choices, choices... I've not seen a 7.3 in a pusher, so both should be front-engine AFAIK. Either way, I think you've found your ideal bus. ;) If all the mechanicals check out, the Cummins/MT643 rig could be a steal for the price, coming from a dealer. Though the 7.3 is not a bad engine, either. Does the Cummins-engine bus have air brakes as well?

Don't just jump in feet first, though. Ask for engine oil and transmission fluid analysis on both so you know what you're getting. You don't want to wind up like the former member I spoke of. I hate to sound like a Negative Nelly, but it's very easy to take a bad step with vehicles like this. Three-and-four-figure repair bills are bad enough with a conventional vehicle. With these, major repairs can run four-and-five-figures, and I hate to see hard-working folks get swindled out of their hard-earned cash, even if it was unintentional on the seller's part. Choose wisely.

Admittedly, I'm no guru on Cummins, I'm pretty sure that should be a 12V engine, for most, it is the more desirable of the two, though I'm told the 24V is not a bad engine either. I've just heard some things about supposed injector pump issues or something with the 24V, but everything you've said about this bus so far seems to be good stuff. The 7.3 with the Allison probably is a good buy as well if mechanicals are sound.

As to front engine and noise / heat, insulation is good, DynaMat is better. ;)

If possible, you might insulate for heat on the underside of the doghouse, DynaMat on the topside for noise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HazMatt View Post
On the (flat)face of it, it sounds a viable candidate, altho:
Dark roof+desert Sun = mobile kiln.
Heat and noise from the engine are less bothersome if it will spend protracted periods parked.
Both valid points, and as to the roof, well, that depends on the shade of red, though anything other than white or silver is going to soak up heat.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:26 PM   #43
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That's what I was thinking- any pigmentation will enhance thermal retention.
I am absolutely incompetent to comment on drivelines, but I do know a little bit 'bout heat absorption, b'golly!
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:57 PM   #44
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Soon... At a dealer far, far away....

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Old 06-17-2019, 01:20 PM   #45
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im so excited to pick my bus! Its going to be really different being able to look at many that I already like. Every other time is one or two buses that give me a bad gut feeling. Probably like the one at the beginning of this post would have done.

The red top must go, and now that youve convinced my boyfriend of it as well we can move to the paint debate. I like all white but he wants a chrome top. Im not sure its appealing. Does anyone have a photos of such a job.

https://redding.craigslist.org/ctd/d...901682014.html
this is what im falling for.
He has so many posts I just can't seem to locate them currantly.
He seems very open and straight forward about the buses.

I did ask about fluid analysis. He said I am welcome to take that into my hands once I arrive. I can test anything before I buy it. But everything has fresh oil so I may not get accurate results.

Since I have no experience with such tests I am not sure. ButI did find a site that I can order a test kit and send it in. Recommended?




Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
Hmmm... Choices, choices... I've not seen a 7.3 in a pusher, so both should be front-engine AFAIK. Either way, I think you've found your ideal bus. ;) If all the mechanicals check out, the Cummins/MT643 rig could be a steal for the price, coming from a dealer. Though the 7.3 is not a bad engine, either. Does the Cummins-engine bus have air brakes as well?

Don't just jump in feet first, though. Ask for engine oil and transmission fluid analysis on both so you know what you're getting. You don't want to wind up like the former member I spoke of. I hate to sound like a Negative Nelly, but it's very easy to take a bad step with vehicles like this. Three-and-four-figure repair bills are bad enough with a conventional vehicle. With these, major repairs can run four-and-five-figures, and I hate to see hard-working folks get swindled out of their hard-earned cash, even if it was unintentional on the seller's part. Choose wisely.

Admittedly, I'm no guru on Cummins, I'm pretty sure that should be a 12V engine, for most, it is the more desirable of the two, though I'm told the 24V is not a bad engine either. I've just heard some things about supposed injector pump issues or something with the 24V, but everything you've said about this bus so far seems to be good stuff. The 7.3 with the Allison probably is a good buy as well if mechanicals are sound.

As to front engine and noise / heat, insulation is good, DynaMat is better. ;)

If possible, you might insulate for heat on the underside of the doghouse, DynaMat on the topside for noise.


Both valid points, and as to the roof, well, that depends on the shade of red, though anything other than white or silver is going to soak up heat.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:26 PM   #46
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Fresh oil won't get you the test results you need. They need to get an oil sample from the old drained oil.


I'd go with *WHITE* for the roof. Any other color won't reflect all incoming light, which is what you want it to do. (And yes, I realize even white won't reflect *ALL* light but I'm trying to make a point here). Feel free to use other colors on the sides, which is what I'm planning to do.


There's a reason some buses get white roofs from the factory, for the same reason you are doing it.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:28 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
Hmmm... Choices, choices... I've not seen a 7.3 in a pusher, so both should be front-engine AFAIK. Either way, I think you've found your ideal bus. ;) If all the mechanicals check out, the Cummins/MT643 rig could be a steal for the price, coming from a dealer. Though the 7.3 is not a bad engine, either. Does the Cummins-engine bus have air brakes as well?

Don't just jump in feet first, though. Ask for engine oil and transmission fluid analysis on both so you know what you're getting. You don't want to wind up like the former member I spoke of. I hate to sound like a Negative Nelly, but it's very easy to take a bad step with vehicles like this. Three-and-four-figure repair bills are bad enough with a conventional vehicle. With these, major repairs can run four-and-five-figures, and I hate to see hard-working folks get swindled out of their hard-earned cash, even if it was unintentional on the seller's part. Choose wisely.

Admittedly, I'm no guru on Cummins, I'm pretty sure that should be a 12V engine, for most, it is the more desirable of the two, though I'm told the 24V is not a bad engine either. I've just heard some things about supposed injector pump issues or something with the 24V, but everything you've said about this bus so far seems to be good stuff. The 7.3 with the Allison probably is a good buy as well if mechanicals are sound.

As to front engine and noise / heat, insulation is good, DynaMat is better. ;)

If possible, you might insulate for heat on the underside of the doghouse, DynaMat on the topside for noise.


Both valid points, and as to the roof, well, that depends on the shade of red, though anything other than white or silver is going to soak up heat.
I've seen PLENTY of rear engine buses with 444E's man.
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Old 06-17-2019, 01:44 PM   #48
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That’s a good looking bus!

Chroming is a plating process that requires parts to be submerged in an electrolyte using electrical current to deposit metal (nickel and chrome) onto a metal surface. It would be very involved and cost-prohibitive to do this to a bus roof (but flashy!)

I’ve seen that the companies that do wraps can do a chrome-like wrap.

Your most cost-effective way of doing this would probably be a can of white Krylon and a foam roller.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:01 PM   #49
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im so excited to pick my bus! Its going to be really different being able to look at many that I already like. Every other time is one or two buses that give me a bad gut feeling. Probably like the one at the beginning of this post would have done.

The red top must go, and now that youve convinced my boyfriend of it as well we can move to the paint debate. I like all white but he wants a chrome top. Im not sure its appealing. Does anyone have a photos of such a job.

https://redding.craigslist.org/ctd/d...901682014.html
this is what im falling for.
He has so many posts I just can't seem to locate them currantly.
He seems very open and straight forward about the buses.

I did ask about fluid analysis. He said I am welcome to take that into my hands once I arrive. I can test anything before I buy it. But everything has fresh oil so I may not get accurate results.

Since I have no experience with such tests I am not sure. ButI did find a site that I can order a test kit and send it in. Recommended?



chrome paint looks like it should be a good product

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Old 06-17-2019, 02:05 PM   #50
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Dynamat

Dynamat works great for sound deadening the areas sound comes through. It’s crazy expensive for what it is however. I wrapped my bus’s doghouse with a similar product that was vastly cheaper. If I can remember Dynamat is the proprietary company name for a product that has a foil backing on top of a butyl vinyl layer, he same stuff that roof flashing repair rolls are.

When I was a little younger I dynamatted the trunk of a 1994 Buick Century (I wanted bank vault-like quiet) and it cost me almost $400. A roll of similar material at Home Depot (the purpose is roofing) was $16 for like 30 feet. I was able to layer the doghouse 2x, the drivers area floor and the firewall for extra sound proofing and the difference is wonderful. No more echo or having to scream while putting around town!
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:14 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
im so excited to pick my bus! Its going to be really different being able to look at many that I already like. Every other time is one or two buses that give me a bad gut feeling. Probably like the one at the beginning of this post would have done.

The red top must go, and now that youve convinced my boyfriend of it as well we can move to the paint debate. I like all white but he wants a chrome top. Im not sure its appealing. Does anyone have a photos of such a job.

https://redding.craigslist.org/ctd/d...901682014.html
this is what im falling for.
He has so many posts I just can't seem to locate them currantly.
He seems very open and straight forward about the buses.

I did ask about fluid analysis. He said I am welcome to take that into my hands once I arrive. I can test anything before I buy it. But everything has fresh oil so I may not get accurate results.

Since I have no experience with such tests I am not sure. ButI did find a site that I can order a test kit and send it in. Recommended?



chrome paint looks like it should be a good product

Wow. That looks really good.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:18 PM   #52
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I've found "chrome" paint to not be very durable for something like a bus roof. You'll want something low maintenance and very durable, can withstand an occasional tree branch or something and resistant to fading, peeling, flaking, etc.
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:32 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenrysCat View Post
im so excited to pick my bus! Its going to be really different being able to look at many that I already like. Every other time is one or two buses that give me a bad gut feeling. Probably like the one at the beginning of this post would have done.

The red top must go, and now that youve convinced my boyfriend of it as well we can move to the paint debate. I like all white but he wants a chrome top. Im not sure its appealing. Does anyone have a photos of such a job.

I did ask about fluid analysis. He said I am welcome to take that into my hands once I arrive. I can test anything before I buy it. But everything has fresh oil so I may not get accurate results.

Since I have no experience with such tests I am not sure. ButI did find a site that I can order a test kit and send it in. Recommended?
I'm glad you were able to find better candidates -- I had a bad gut feeling about that first one when I realized what it was, though I didn't want to sound like I was poo-poo'ing it for nothing. I do think you will be much happier in the long run with the one you are about to get.

For some reason the link in your post appears to have gone dead, I am re-posting it here for others to see your new baby...


https://redding.craigslist.org/ctd/d...901682014.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
I've found "chrome" paint to not be very durable for something like a bus roof. You'll want something low maintenance and very durable, can withstand an occasional tree branch or something and resistant to fading, peeling, flaking, etc.
I agree with BSF. However, chrome can be done as a wrap, though it would be far more susceptible to damage from tree branches and such -- Check out Gas Monkey Garage's drift car build. However, while this would definitely reflect all heat, two considerations here... Your chrome roof idea, while cool, could cause problems with overhead aircraft (reflecting light that could blind them), and it will be a real PITA if you ever have to get up there to do anything, because then it will be blinding you. Could blind you from the ground if it goes all the way down to the windows. Besides, the roofs of these tend to get dirty fairly quick when opportunity extends itself. I would keep it simple and go white, perhaps a dull silver / aluminum paint. Maybe even some Kool-Seal to keep water out -- it comes in white.

As another member here said, fresh oil will not give the analysis results you need. You can look at this one of two ways. This guy is trying to put his best foot forward by offering good buses that are freshly serviced, but that can work another way, too -- if they were trying to hide a known problem, for instance. I'm not getting that vibe from this one though. Looks to be a former reserve bus that was repurposed for fire safety education, or perhaps was used for transporting wildfire crews in emergencies -- looks well-kept and should be in pretty good shape.

There is a possibility a test kit could show trace amounts if the engine has been run for any amount of time since servicing, but it would have to have serious (and possibly obvious) problems to be that obvious that quick. I'm not sure it would be worth the effort in this case. You might ask if he has the drained oil available if you really want to test it. I would still try a test kit on the trans fluid, providing that hasn't been changed too.

Should that be the case, you might try doing so at a later date when the mechanicals have a little bit of run time on them. Could save you a lot of grief if the trans cooler in the radiator begins leaking into the cooling system (not an every day, every time kind of thing, but it does happen).

I don't think you mentioned, does this one have air brakes?
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:35 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
I've found "chrome" paint to not be very durable for something like a bus roof. You'll want something low maintenance and very durable, can withstand an occasional tree branch or something and resistant to fading, peeling, flaking, etc.


as a painter I agree with you - painting the roof white would be my first choice, much less expensive and much less labor, - - - but i you put 3 - 4 coats of clear coat on top of the chrome it would likely last quite a while - especially if the bus was garaged at home
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Old 06-17-2019, 03:45 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
I've not seen a 7.3 in a pusher, so both should be front-engine AFAIK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I've seen PLENTY of rear engine buses with 444E's man.
Thanks for the info, ECCB. Good to know. I understand that the 444E and 7.3 are at least closely related, but are they exactly the same engine? I seem to remember reading here somewhere that they were not exactly the same, but one based on the other? My understanding is pusher versions need a reverse rotation pattern for the pusher setup, though, or am I misinformed?
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:18 PM   #56
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Sure 'nuff! That is a looker!
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
I'm glad you were able to find better candidates -- I had a bad gut feeling about that first one when I realized what it was, though I didn't want to sound like I was poo-poo'ing it for nothing. I do think you will be much happier in the long run with the one you are about to get.

For some reason the link in your post appears to have gone dead, I am re-posting it here for others to see your new baby...


https://redding.craigslist.org/ctd/d...901682014.html
Hey kids! What begins with "F,"
And ends with, "U, C, K?"
Firetruck!
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Old 06-17-2019, 04:27 PM   #57
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Your bus just sold. Hopefully to you!
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:35 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON View Post
Thanks for the info, ECCB. Good to know. I understand that the 444E and 7.3 are at least closely related, but are they exactly the same engine? I seem to remember reading here somewhere that they were not exactly the same, but one based on the other? My understanding is pusher versions need a reverse rotation pattern for the pusher setup, though, or am I misinformed?

The T444(E) and 7.3 are virtually the same engine. Same block, same heads, pistons, and guts. Injectors interchange. There are about 4 small differences between them. The Ford version has thicker head gaskets to allow for rod stretch at the higher RPM's it runs ... I forget what else. Almost everything else interchanges between them. Wiring may be different, computers definitely are different.


Most pushers use the same engine rotation as the pullers do - the axles are geared for reverse rotation in these cases. As such, using a pusher axle for a puller bus won't work very well.
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:37 PM   #59
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Not unless you crave more options when backing up...
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Old 06-17-2019, 05:44 PM   #60
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Quote:
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Not unless you crave more options when backing up...
Hence why I didn't say it wouldn't work at all ... just that it wouldn't work very well. Unless you planned on doing one of those drive-a-long-distance-in-reverse publicity stunts.
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