E450 race hauler

[leadsled01]

Are you a certified welder?

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

Hope your welder's running hot enough to penetrate the heat treated steel.
If your using wire the welds might look pretty especially if you didn't clean the paint but that doesn't meen the weld actually penetrated the tempered metal? In my mind some grade 6-8 bolts are in order or a stick welder with a 60 rod as a penetrator and a 70 rod as a high strength cover with a spray bottle with oil sprayed while hot to keep the temper in the metal.
I know a lot of us don't care about manufacturers specs because we are not held to them but your and the others insurance company will eat your !!! If there is ever a problem? They are going to anyway but a custom hitch hauling a trailer comes loose from a SKOOLIE?
Not saying your not doing it right? And not trying step on toes?
A wire welder won't stick to heat treated steel properly without some extra steps.

[Tango]

Pre-heating is your friend on many metals.

[Truckinduc]

Finished the hitch. This shorty tows well. Next up ill start building the folding bed and fresh water tank.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by Truckinduc

Finished the hitch. This shorty tows well. Next up ill start building the folding bed and fresh water tank.

Looks very nice. Hitch looks very slick.

[Truckinduc]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

Hope your welder's running hot enough to penetrate the heat treated steel.
If your using wire the welds might look pretty especially if you didn't clean the paint but that doesn't meen the weld actually penetrated the tempered metal? In my mind some grade 6-8 bolts are in order or a stick welder with a 60 rod as a penetrator and a 70 rod as a high strength cover with a spray bottle with oil sprayed while hot to keep the temper in the metal.
I know a lot of us don't care about manufacturers specs because we are not held to them but your and the others insurance company will eat your !!! If there is ever a problem? They are going to anyway but a custom hitch hauling a trailer comes loose from a SKOOLIE?
Not saying your not doing it right? And not trying step on toes?
A wire welder won't stick to heat treated steel properly without some extra steps.

Are you suggesting people try to weld on critical components without removing the paint off the frame? This frame has welded on components and ford says you can weld on it so I dont see the problem. 240 amps is what I used, the frame and the tubing are both 3/17" wall. The bumper is going back on with a hole in it for the hitch. Even in the extremely unlikely event the hitch does fail it is captured by the bus bumper and cannot physically come loose from the bus.

[Truckinduc]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Looks very nice. Hitch looks very slick.

Thank you. I build race car parts so I have to get out of the superlight mindset when I build something for the bus.

[toyotechwv]

Where can I find more info on your friend'friend's International? May consider a full size bus and no trailer.

[produster]

Nice welding and good looking set up.

I managed to get my toys inside and sleep 4 comfortably or 6 intimately..lol

Class 1 Baja is shown in it. Drag car fits also as it should.

The "garage" in the bus was built to accept 118 inch wheel base car, 45 inch nose over hang and 80 inch wheelie bars. Folding ramps in the belly boxes and the ramp door has legs to hold it on the same angle as the inside.

I will be putting in vintage Asphalt and Dirt Modifieds this spring.

[toyotechwv]

Originally Posted by produster

Nice welding and good looking set up.

I managed to get my toys inside and sleep 4 comfortably or 6 intimately..lol

Class 1 Baja is shown in it. Drag car fits also as it should.

The "garage" in the bus was built to accept 118 inch wheel base car, 45 inch nose over hang and 80 inch wheelie bars. Folding ramps in the belly boxes and the ramp door has legs to hold it on the same angle as the inside.

I will be putting in vintage Asphalt and Dirt Modifieds this spring.

Any more interior pics? Rear door? Ramp attachment and vehicle tie down points? I'm seriously considering this type of build in place of a smaller bus and trailer.

[produster]

Originally Posted by toyotechwv

Any more interior pics? Rear door? Ramp attachment and vehicle tie down points? I'm seriously considering this type of build in place of a smaller bus and trailer.

I have some around. It isnt pretty. money has been spent on the drag car...lol

I will get some for you this weekend if I cannot find any on my computer at home. It is stored at the race shop and I will not make it there until the weekend.

[Truckinduc]

Originally Posted by toyotechwv

Where can I find more info on your friend'friend's International? May consider a full size bus and no trailer.

What info would you like? It's a dt466 with a lock up 4 speed trans. He cut the frame at the rear axle and dropped it down a good amount. The back door folds down and he has a valve to air out the rear suspension. The top has been chopped for aero and a taller rear gear was installed. It gets 11mpg at 65 mph.

[Truckinduc]

Also the rear wheel bumps have been removed. It still has 4" of up travel without them and has never been a problem.

[toyotechwv]

Originally Posted by produster

I have some around. It isnt pretty. money has been spent on the drag car...lol

I will get some for you this weekend if I cannot find any on my computer at home. It is stored at the race shop and I will not make it there until the weekend.

That would be great. Very much appreciated.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Originally Posted by leadsled01

Are you a certified welder?

Yep for many a year now. And many different aspects.
Will only give advice/my opinion on welding to a vehicle frame.
To each there own
Good luck!

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Originally Posted by Truckinduc

Are you suggesting people try to weld on critical components without removing the paint off the frame? This frame has welded on components and ford says you can weld on it so I dont see the problem. 240 amps is what I used, the frame and the tubing are both 3/17" wall. The bumper is going back on with a hole in it for the hitch. Even in the extremely unlikely event the hitch does fail it is captured by the bus bumper and cannot physically come loose from the bus.

No, I was saying that I hoped you were not trying to wire weld on the frame without removing the paint and you were using good amperage.
If you are using stick welding and a penetrating rod like a 6010-6013 series you can burn through the paint and use a high strength cover rod in the 7018 series.
As long as your comfortable with what you are doing then go for it
I never say anyone is doing anything wrong and I only speak from the experiences that I have had in my life.
So if your thoughts and experiences are telling you different then go for it.

[leadsled01]

Good to know that you are a certified welder. I love to hear different/better ways to do things from people who know what they are talking about. I ask people their qualifications to weed out the riff raff.

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

Yep for many a year now. And many different aspects.
Will only give advice/my opinion on welding to a vehicle frame.
To each there own
Good luck!

[Truckinduc]

Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223

No, I was saying that I hoped you were not trying to wire weld on the frame without removing the paint and you were using good amperage.
If you are using stick welding and a penetrating rod like a 6010-6013 series you can burn through the paint and use a high strength cover rod in the 7018 series.
As long as your comfortable with what you are doing then go for it
I never say anyone is doing anything wrong and I only speak from the experiences that I have had in my life.
So if your thoughts and experiences are telling you different then go for it.

I work with certified welders and a few CWI''s every day, I'm in machining quality control for aerospace. A certified welder is great but only as good as the procedures written up for them. I fail and reject their parts on a daily basis. I'm not talking down on anyone. The e-450 chassis is made from 36,000 min yield A36 steel, aka cheap everyday stuff. No special procedures necessary for welding. It's not high tensle, heat treated or anything of that nature. Welding to the frame by all processes is allowed.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Originally Posted by leadsled01

Good to know that you are a certified welder. I love to hear different/better ways to do things from people who know what they are talking about. I ask people their qualifications to weed out the riff raff.

To me? Sometimes a certification is just a piece of paper?
I have worked with over certified people that still don't know and or can't do the job they are certified for but they are hired to be over you because there stack of CERTS say they are the best around.
To me hands on knowledge and years of experience are better than a certification but for some of the things we do require that piece of paper. And some of my younger men I encourage to hang out and give them stuff to do in the field to gain more experience before they go for a certification.
Kind of like?
I have never dealt with an engineer straight out of school that could answer a design problem in the field over the phone,e-mail with pics or even a sight visit. And some with many years of experience that can't? But you can always tell when your talking to one that has had actual hands on field knowledge.
And back to the welding?
Shop,bench top,solid flooring is a completely different world when your on top of a 10-12' ladder with nothing to hang on to or laying down in a mud hole with the bottom of your weld inches from your hood and all the Sparks and slag are going down your collar are even walking steel 60' up with nothing but your own legs to hold you steady after you pull your hood down and that's where the actual hands on experience comes in.

[Jolly Roger bus 223]

Originally Posted by Truckinduc

I work with certified welders and a few CWI''s every day, I'm in machining quality control for aerospace. A certified welder is great but only as good as the procedures written up for them. I fail and reject their parts on a daily basis. I'm not talking down on anyone. The e-450 chassis is made from 36,000 min yield A36 steel, aka cheap everyday stuff. No special procedures necessary for welding. It's not high tensle, heat treated or anything of that nature. Welding to the frame by all processes is allowed.

Didn't say it couldn't be done,or hasn't been done.
I just recently added a 1" thick plate and custom hitch to a2005 F550 dump truck with no problems?
But when I did do some welding on my bus frame I noticed from the beginning while tacking it up that my tack wasn't penetrating the bus frame like I thought it should so I pre heated it and the weld penetrated like I wanted to see.
It took more time and I even burnt off the sticker that said do not weld.
Certified? Sometimes there is no procedure written that covers what has to be done and for my work most of the time it's a phone call to get an engineering judgement to approve what you are getting ready to do or have already done.
Certification is like a college degree? It's just a piece of paper?
Hands on experience and years of doing a specific trade is everything certified or not.

[Twigg]

With respect to engineers, versus field knowledge.

Both are important. FInding a balanced team is crucial too, but things have changed since the "old days".

Back in the day, field experience often won out over engineering calculations. Mostly we got away with it and mainly because everything was over-engineered to the point where it couldn't fall down whatever the work performed. There have been some spectacular fails, both here and in the UK (my home country). Bridges have fallen down, apartment buildings too. Sometimes the wrong materials were specified by the engineers, often the site workers simply didn't do what the drawings told them to do, and they buried their mistakes in concrete only for the evidence to emerge 30 years later.

What has changed is that many more exotic materials and designs are used, and even in traditional construction, materials have been pared as far as the engineering will allow. Skimping at the build stage will have faster and more dangerous consequences.

Recently we have authorized part two of the Keystone XL pipeline. It's safe, they say, with no danger of environmental disaster ... Yet Keystone 1 just sprang a leak dumping 200 000 barrels of oil on the ground. Safe.my.ass.

So yeah, we need the Coded and Certified Welders, but we also need to be training and certifying them correctly, and we need trained engineers to give them a spec, and for it to be accurate.

Back on topic ....

School bus chassis are massive, and massively strong. Car unibodies, not so much.

Welding on a chassis should present few real problems to a decent welder. It won't hurt the chassis and will take the weight ... if it's done right.

In the end, doing it right is really what matters. It will be vastly stronger than it needs to be and shaking certificates at each other won't help