GVWR and final build

Proudy202 · 06-29-2021, 08:52 AM

Hi guys,

I'm planning my build and one of my concerns is getting close to the GVWR, I'm looking at a 5/6 window Ford E450 7.3 PSD or Chevy/GMC 3500 Duramax

The Ford's GVWR is 14000lbs with (from what I can find) a stripped weight of 9300lbs (ish)

The Chevy has a GVWR of 12300lbs, I'm yet to find a stripped down weight.

My build plan includes 800w solar, 500ah Lithium batteries, 70 Gal water tank, 40 gal grey water tank, queen bed, 5000BTU window AC, wood burner, 3 burner stove with oven, nature's head toilet, shower, refrigerator....I'm planning a kitchen with butcher block counter top, dinette/sofa combo and a small pantry for the build, with a garage for tools, kettlebells and hopefully my 100lb Muay Thai Heavy bag.

I've calculated the weight of all the above (appliances, solar, batteries, me, my girlfriend, the cat, plumbing, wiring, sound deadening, butcher block and then things like clothes, kettlebells, Muay Thai bag, tools etc) and am coming in around the 2700lb point

So on the Ford that's leaving me 2000lbs for the wood, insulation, and build.

Is this enough? I have no idea how much plywood and framing weighs...not to mention the little things I've forgotten!

Has anybody weighed their full build to see what they're at?

I've attached a 3D model of the build as it stands

Cheers
Ash

Danjo · 06-29-2021, 09:05 AM

You’re smart. My recommendation is to trim weight everywhere you can. It goes fast.

Proudy202 · 06-29-2021, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danjo

You’re smart. My recommendation is to trim weight everywhere you can. It goes fast.

Haha thanks! Last thing I want to do is build it all and find out I'm over and have to tear it apart again!

We're going to be living and driving in it full time too so safety is of concern!!

Danjo · 06-29-2021, 09:41 AM

I’m not over, but I did find out that I’m definitely getting up there. Early on in the build when it was empty and only had a little done to it, I ran to the dump and got weighed there. I thought there was no way the stuff I was installing could add up like it did. Then one day I decided to go to a scale. I was shocked. It was full of junk and a full load of tool boxes, the fresh and waste tanks all 3/4 full, so at least I was simulating a full load. Still, that made me reassess my build a bit. So kind of late in the game I’m looking to see where I can save weight without undoing too much. Fortunately I can trim weight in some
Places that are just kind of done.

Proudy202 · 06-29-2021, 10:24 AM

Yeah I imagine it was a shock!!! I hope tto out enough planning in so I'm not in that boat!

Just need to work out how much and what lumber I'm going to need and start getting a solid weight idea together.

BeNimble · 06-29-2021, 10:48 AM

Recently weighed my 22ft vintage class C dry weight is 7500lbs, with fridge, inverter, heater, a/c, stove, oven, awning, shower, 35 gallon fresh, black and grey tanks, propane tank, dinette, couch, bunk. GVWR is 10k.

pic of similiar one:

magnakansas · 06-29-2021, 12:27 PM

2010 f450 that is a truck cab and chassis... rear axle from ford is rated at 11,000 lbs..... rear axle from spicer is rated at 14,000 lbs. so there is a "paper" difference. front axle is rated at 6,000 lbs. so around 20,000 maximum for my 24 foot long bus..... I expect to be at 12,000 all up or under. definitely over 11,000 lbs

if that gives you any ideas... mine is an all steel body, 11 seats, toilet, sink, 60 quart fridge, people and gear...

william

rg1220 · 06-29-2021, 12:43 PM

Thanks for posting this! I'm in a similar boat! I'm looking to tow a roughly 6,000lbs trailer. Unfortunately, the Ford E450 7.3L PSD in Bus form (wife wants a bus) is very hard to come by. However, the shuttle version I've heard is lighter as it has a fiberglass shell. I have an excel sheet with expected weights and I'm thinking the Chevy 3500 is just a bit too close for comfort.

Per this post, empty weight of Chevy 3500 was 8820. I don't know how much of a fuel load they were at. But maybe that'll be helpful for you to decide.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/m...tml#post279726

Proudy202 · 06-29-2021, 01:09 PM

Thanks for the info, I'm definitely swinging towards the Ford now that extra capacity is needed I think!

Proudy202 · 06-29-2021, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rg1220

Thanks for posting this! I'm in a similar boat! I'm looking to tow a roughly 6,000lbs trailer. Unfortunately, the Ford E450 7.3L PSD in Bus form (wife wants a bus) is very hard to come by. However, the shuttle version I've heard is lighter as it has a fiberglass shell. I have an excel sheet with expected weights and I'm thinking the Chevy 3500 is just a bit too close for comfort.

Per this post, empty weight of Chevy 3500 was 8820. I don't know how much of a fuel load they were at. But maybe that'll be helpful for you to decide.
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f27/m...tml#post279726

This did help thanks, I'm 30lbs under the 12300 for a Chevy!! That's just too close for me!

Tell me about it with the 7.3 Bus, I'm really struggling to find them for sale! Although I'm a while if buyung just yet anyway

TheArgobus · 06-29-2021, 06:39 PM

Check out my thread here (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/m...ght-32181.html), I'm uncomfortably close the front axle limit, although gross is just fine.

Wood is pretty damn heavy. If you can, I'd just leave the stock walls/ceilings (yes that means leaving stock insulation, if you can tolerate that. In my opinion, insulating a shorty like mine is pointless when I have single pane glass covering half the surfaces). For framing, you'll definitely want to weld angle iron/square tubing instead of 2x4s, if weight is an issue. Welding isn't that hard, I learned how just for my bus, even though I didn't listen to that advice and used wood for everything. Stupid me!

Once I move the airconditioner to the back instead of the front, and possibly remove a solar panel, I'll be much more comfortable about the weight.

TheArgobus · 06-29-2021, 06:42 PM

for those who don't want to read the thread, I have a 4 window Ford E350 with the following:

GVWR: 9600
GVWR FRONT: 4050
GVWR FRONT: 6084

And when I had it weighed (it's 95% complete):

With a full fuel tank, full baseline supplies, and NO water, and no driver, the weights came out to be:

Front 3680
Both 7880
Rear 4040

With a full water tank:

Front 3800
Both 8180
Rear 4260

Add my fat ass to the drivers seat, and I have about 100 pounds of slop remaining in the front axle. That is NOT ideal, considering that load doesn’t include any clothing or food, but the passengers sit behind the rear axle so that will help shift the CG back.

Iceni John · 06-29-2021, 06:47 PM

Another way to save weight is to use hollow-core doors for the interior partition walls, and they're thinner than walls framed with 2x4s so you'll save some interior space. Use aluminum wherever possible for the interior instead of steel. You'll need to ruthlessly trim weight everywhere, otherwise you'll be over GVWR when fully loaded. Pretend you're making the interior of a business jet - everything is made to be light and stiff. Honeycomb panels?

John

Proudy202 · 06-30-2021, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheArgobus

Check out my thread here (https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f13/m...ght-32181.html), I'm uncomfortably close the front axle limit, although gross is just fine.

Wood is pretty damn heavy. If you can, I'd just leave the stock walls/ceilings (yes that means leaving stock insulation, if you can tolerate that. In my opinion, insulating a shorty like mine is pointless when I have single pane glass covering half the surfaces). For framing, you'll definitely want to weld angle iron/square tubing instead of 2x4s, if weight is an issue. Welding isn't that hard, I learned how just for my bus, even though I didn't listen to that advice and used wood for everything. Stupid me!

Once I move the airconditioner to the back instead of the front, and possibly remove a solar panel, I'll be much more comfortable about the weight.

If it was just me I'd keep the original walls and ceiling but the girlfriend does not like that idea, I was the one that wanted to live bus life so she is making sure it's as homey as possible for her!! 😂

I know how to weld and never thought about using metal in places, especially aluminium, I imagine an aluminium bed frame is going to be much lighter than the wood monster I'd be building!!!

Thanks for the tips

Proudy202 · 06-30-2021, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceni John

Another way to save weight is to use hollow-core doors for the interior partition walls, and they're thinner than walls framed with 2x4s so you'll save some interior space. Use aluminum wherever possible for the interior instead of steel. You'll need to ruthlessly trim weight everywhere, otherwise you'll be over GVWR when fully loaded. Pretend you're making the interior of a business jet - everything is made to be light and stiff. Honeycomb panels?

John

I've actually been thinking on this, the only interior wall is going to be around the shower, i don't see why it needs to be 2x4s? I was thinking of 2x2s maybe even 1x2s? And then using 1/4" ply for the sheet, it'll be much thinner and lighter, just not sure what it's structural integrity would be like compared to a proper 2x4 built frame...

musigenesis · 06-30-2021, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheArgobus

Wood is pretty damn heavy.

Wood is stronger by weight than steel; steel is stronger than wood by volume because of its much greater density (steel is also more homogenous and consistent in its structural properties than wood). If the primary concern is to save weight, wood makes more sense than steel.

musigenesis · 06-30-2021, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proudy202

I've actually been thinking on this, the only interior wall is going to be around the shower, i don't see why it needs to be 2x4s? I was thinking of 2x2s maybe even 1x2s? And then using 1/4" ply for the sheet, it'll be much thinner and lighter, just not sure what it's structural integrity would be like compared to a proper 2x4 built frame...

There is no reason to build the interior framing of a skoolie with 2x4s, it's just a waste of interior volume. 1x2 framing with 1/4" paneling (or 5mm underlayment, which is 3/16") is perfectly adequate, so long as you can accurately guide screws into the center of something 3/4" wide instead of 1.5" wide. You can also build interior partitions with just 3/4" plywood and save even more interior volume, although this can potentially suffer from warping problems.

magnakansas · 06-30-2021, 10:13 AM

There is this stuff that is a layer of fiberglass.. like 0.020 inch thick... a structural foam core 0.75 inch and then another layer of 0.020 inch fiberglass.

can be glued, can be screwed.. strong and light.

1 inch square tube 0.035 wall is .45 lbs per foot

2x4 kiln dried fir/pine is around 1.13 lbs per foot

race cars airplanes fast boats.......everything has more than one job to do it at all possible.......

instead of water tanks and then a frame around the tanks to support the bed... Why not water tanks and the bed sits on the water tanks? just have to find the right water tank.

instead of mounting a countertop on a cabinet.... the top is the cabinet that holds the side and front together.......take off the top and sides fall over....

the cabinet does not need a back.... the wall of the bus is the back of the cabinet.

I am not framing on the floor... steel floor, double sided foam sticky tape, 2 inch thick foam, double sided sticky foam tape, then 3/4" marine plywood... the ply wood is very very durable. I will cover with carpet and replace carpet when needed. no screws no nails....

you can make a wall from 1/8" wood paneling and 3/8" foam.... one layer of wood construction adhesive then foam, construction adhesive, then wood... light, stiff, and only about 5/8" thick .... could make a pocket door like this..... use a couple of inline skate wheels on the bottom and you have a rolling pocket door, or hang it outside and have guides top and bottom... you have a sliding barn door. use a router and cut slots into the flooring to locate the bottom of a wall and I think it is possible to glue the top into place... or use a corner block and glue.....

wonder how cheap you can get used galley parts from old airliners?

thoughts on light weight building

wiliam

Proudy202 · 06-30-2021, 10:33 AM

Thanks guys keep this all coming, I'm starting to really knock some weight out of the build...looks like most panelling I'm looking at 1/4" ply and 1x2s for support, still planning to build the kitchen cabinets out of 1/2” maybe 3/8", but with no back and the butcher block straight on top as suggested.

With all that being said and reducing a few items I planned (flexible solar instead of rigid, dropped to 5 batteries not 6 as I don't think it's needed) I've got my total weight including building materials to 11830lbs....well under the 14000lbs for the Ford and possibly opens the doors up for a Chevy now too (seems there's a lot more around!)

TheArgobus · 06-30-2021, 10:46 AM

I forgot to add—the BEST way to build out your interior isn’t wood or metal framing, it’s no framing at all with a Kreg pocket hole jig to attach 3/4” plywood walls/bulkheads directly to each other. That would be the ideal solution!

You may also like: