heating?

[mmoore6856]

has anybody had one of those diesel heaters keep up a zero degrees f ?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by mmoore6856

has anybody had one of those diesel heaters keep up a zero degrees f ?

thats a loaded question.. a heating system has to be sizeds properly for the heat loss of the space it is asked to heat.. theres no way a 5kw heater gonna keep up in a stock bus when its 0 out..





i always get frosted when someone says an A/C sucks because it cant keep up.. no that means said designer did a crap job of spec'ing it..



you have to build in the proper amount of heat production for what you are doing with your bus.. people in orlando will need a different heat / insulation plan than those living in minnesota..





the IMPORTANT question is will a diesel heater operate in 0f conditions.


last year i had issues with my VVKB heater lighting off when it got down below 20 outside...



on the other hand my real webasto lit off perfectly in my other bus even when it was -10f outside..



my 16kw D&E hasnt been tested in anything lower than 20f yet and its worked.. (other than the failed computer board which i have spares of now.. no idea yet on whether thats an anomaly or a defect that will show itself again.)..

[Tejon7]

Originally Posted by mmoore6856

has anybody had one of those diesel heaters keep up a zero degrees f ?

Maybe in a well-insulated shortie or van. Probably not in a larger bus unless you have no windows and extreme insulation. Not to a comfortable temperature anyway. My gut says it would be best to go with redundant heaters if you're seeing those kinds of temps because 0° F is no fun if your sole heater craps out on you.

Edit: I replied a few minutes too late

[s2mikon]

I have 2 of them in a 40 foot and at 8 degrees they have to work full tilt. I think that at 0 F it would not be good. As others have noted you need redundancy also. At the time I was plugged in and could have switched to electric grid. It was a test to see how it would work. My thought now is if I had 1 or 2 more it would be nice at 0 F. I haven't had any problems with them starting at 8 F. I don't know about 0 F.

[jackdebear]

I'm working on a diy pellet stove. Lots of plans on Youtube.

[MontyPK]

Nothing wrong with a little mini-stove. Burn wood and coal to keep things toasty!

[jackdebear]

Look into diy pellet stoves. They have some big advantages. Clean burning. Fuel comes in bags. A good design could burn for a very long time. Fun to build if you can do a bit of metal work. This is not paint by numbers. You have to figure everything out yourself. Good mental exercise.

[cadillackid]

I always liked pellet stoves in a house.. the ones ive been around even have a thermostat and they will autofeed and auto damper themselves just like a furnace.. even better would be if there was a way you could make your own fuel out of wood gathered from the land.. im sure the pellets are sawdust mixed with something and compressed.. prob not easy to make a machine to produce them on the road..

[BFlinn181]

The OP asked about propane heaters and the thread quickly tilted to diesel heaters. While I like the small diesel heaters that just sip fuel, propane can work effectively IF you vent the combustion gases outside of the bus. Condensation is the major issue with a closed vehicle and needs to be addressed. I

would NOT suggest a portable, unvented propane heater of any type, they all create a lot of moisture in their combustion by-products.

[jackdebear]

You can build a little stove from a propane tank. Gravity feed. No electricity. I haven't gotten mine done yet but I don't think condensation will be an issue. Certainly isn't with a wood stove. I wouldn't worry much about some glue in the chips. It's a really small deal. Just get your venting right. Dozen or more videos on Youtube.

[Dirtdoctor]

My next build will have a small wood stove but I’ve used the wee propane mrHeater and a 5 gal propane bottle. It heats well. Best is to insulate, I used foil-bubble-foil against the windows, glued magnets onto the insulation. They hang quite well and roll up when not needed. I will use the spray on foam for the underside of the bus.

[BMWNJ]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

That is how I used the Volvo fuel pump mounts. I was double isolated.

Got a pic of your set up?

[s2mikon]

No I don't. But I will take one Monday and post it in my album.

[s2mikon]

I just loaded the picture to my album.

[katix]

I hereby declare that this winter, my 24th winter in #TheBarbieDreambus , I Will NOT Be Cold!!


I've tried different sizes of propane heaters over the years, and for about a decade I used a ProCom unvented propane furnace. It heated my bus well, but did create a Lot of condensation. I just put up with all that moisture until moving to 8000' elevation a few years ago, where unvented propane just doesn't work. (Side note: My big project this year has been tearing out old moldy carpet to install wood floor. It's coming along...)



I've had a wide array of electric space heaters over the years, some good ones and some junk. An electric space heater can keep my super-insulated bedroom warm and comfy, but not my whole bus.



A couple winters ago I installed a tiny wood stove, the Dwarf 3KW, which I love! It takes a couple hours to warm up the whole bus, but then it's toasty. Plus I live in the woods surrounded by free fuel.


And just now I installed a 5KW Chinese diesel heater, and yesterday adjusted the fuel air ratio for high altitude. So far I'm impressed with it. Thanks much to all y'all that posted instructions and videos to make up for the lack of info from the manufacturer!



And of course every single bit of insulation helps!!

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by s2mikon

I have 2 of them in a 40 foot and at 8 degrees they have to work full tilt. I think that at 0 F it would not be good. As others have noted you need redundancy also. At the time I was plugged in and could have switched to electric grid. It was a test to see how it would work. My thought now is if I had 1 or 2 more it would be nice at 0 F. I haven't had any problems with them starting at 8 F. I don't know about 0 F.

I installed one (of 2) on Thanksgiving day and can back that up. My 40' bus is fairly well insulated and it couldn't warm it up to shirtsleeve temp the following Saturday morning. I should mention it was only in the low 40s. It was especially chilly up front with the windshield, glass door and side windows. I'm seriously considering a 2kW unit for the bedroom in addition to the two 5kW units. They're certainly inexpensive.

[Tejon7]

Originally Posted by Rwnielsen

I installed one (of 2) on Thanksgiving day and can back that up. My 40' bus is fairly well insulated and it couldn't warm it up to shirtsleeve temp the following Saturday morning. I should mention it was only in the low 40s. It was especially chilly up front with the windshield, glass door and side windows. I'm seriously considering a 2kW unit for the bedroom in addition to the two 5kW units. They're certainly inexpensive.

I'm surprised by that, but it is good to have another data point for people trying to decide their heating needs. It probably goes to show that there are just too many variables involved to give a good answer to the question "what heater do I need for my XX ft bus".

For comparison, my bus is 40' with no roof raise, has 1.5" spray foam in the ceiling, 1.5" XPS along the lower walls, and 1/2 of the windows blanked out and insulated with 1" EPS. The remaining windows are stock single pane, the floor is stock 1.5" plywood, and the dash/driver's area is all glass and aluminum skin with zero insulation. It's decently well insulated for 3 season use, but certainly doesn't have the "arctic package". Last week it was hovering around 30° F and the single 5 kW CDH raised the temp to 75° F. That was with no wind, which makes a huge difference. It took 45 minutes or so at full blast, but it got there.

If memory serves, at 20° F ambient temp and a light breeze, the heater can't raise the temp inside above 60° F. That's a 9 month old memory... maybe it can't be trusted.

[cadillackid]

thats the thing every bus is different.. when I was in HVAC design for residential and commercial systems there was always so much pressure to "cookie-cutter" HVAC systems for developers and with homes it was somewhat easy, oversize the system to make people happy.. bigger is better except when its not... or except when the developer cried about $300 out of the cost of a 150k base for a development of 1000 homes.. so theyd all end up with under-sized air conditioners and over-sized furnaces..



I dont miss those days!!


Luckily heat is easy esp these days.. you oversize the system but with modulating components.. many of the chinese diesel heaters modulate or can be made to do such with 3rd party controls like the After-burner, you can install a few units for zoning and let them do their thing with thermostats.



one of the complaints in the HVAC world and something ive noticed in even my fully stock bus is the " im freezing and it is taking forever to warm up".. in a bs that is lived-in fully or on a campong trip you likely wont encounter the "core temp" vs "air temp" differential but its something to think about if you sut your heat off or way-down when you leave the bus for long periods of time..



the core temp is the walls, furniture, ceilings, floors, posessions.. the air temp is just that the air temp.



when you kick the heat on in a cold space the first thing you'll feel is the warm air at the vent.. then you'll feel warm air in the room.. however as you move around or the air moves around it is quickly cooled by the cold core thus putting more load on the heating system.. making it "take longer" to warm up..



in buildings esp homes with way-oversized furnaces this results in an instantly air-hot space that turns frigid as soon as the furnace kicks off.. often being uncomfortably so before the Minimum-Off-Time of the thermostat expires and restarts the heat.



with modulating equipment this is much less of an issue...



once the core temp is warmed you need a lot less heat to idle and keep the space warm..



even in my fully stock bus my 16kw diesel water heater will struggle to warm up the bus on a 25 degree day.. it runs solid and ill have 3 heat exchangers on high fan.. however same weather same conditions same bus 45 minutes later and im down to 1 or 2 fans on low and the heater is at less than 50% duty cycle., keeping it close to 80 inside...


Luckily for me i usually drive the bus before parking it to work out of oss I have way more heat than it ever needs from the diesel engine to warm the core... once its warm it takes awhile for the inside to cool down.



when sizing your heating systems think of how you'll use your bus.. if you are a park and chill then want heat now or if it will be parked long periods with some heat running all the time keeping the core warm..



hopefully you dont delete your OEM bus heaters so you can ,ake use of wasted engine heat when dirving or as an emergency heat source should you need a boost to warm the core of the bus..



when all else fails its a Bus so you get on the Freeway and head SOUTH!

[Rwnielsen]

Originally Posted by Tejon7

I'm surprised by that, but it is good to have another data point for people trying to decide their heating needs. It probably goes to show that there are just too many variables involved to give a good answer to the question "what heater do I need for my XX ft bus".

For comparison, my bus is 40' with no roof raise, has 1.5" spray foam in the ceiling, 1.5" XPS along the lower walls, and 1/2 of the windows blanked out and insulated with 1" EPS. The remaining windows are stock single pane, the floor is stock 1.5" plywood, and the dash/driver's area is all glass and aluminum skin with zero insulation. It's decently well insulated for 3 season use, but certainly doesn't have the "arctic package". Last week it was hovering around 30° F and the single 5 kW CDH raised the temp to 75° F. That was with no wind, which makes a huge difference. It took 45 minutes or so at full blast, but it got there.

If memory serves, at 20° F ambient temp and a light breeze, the heater can't raise the temp inside above 60° F. That's a 9 month old memory... maybe it can't be trusted.

I should clarify "fairly well insulated". I have 1-1/2 spray foam in the walls and ceiling. There are gaps, big ones, where I took down 14, 12v fluorescent lights. The back of the bus is a fiberglass cap and it's not insulated at all. The floor has about an 1-1/4 of spray foam underneath. I have a lot of work to do to actually make it "well insulated". There's no framework or cabinetry so it's one long virtually empty space. I'll get the second heater in this weekend and see how it goes, I have jackets.

[Rucker]

Originally Posted by Rwnielsen

I should clarify "fairly well insulated". I have 1-1/2 spray foam in the walls and ceiling. There are gaps, big ones, where I took down 14, 12v fluorescent lights. The back of the bus is a fiberglass cap and it's not insulated at all. The floor has about an 1-1/4 of spray foam underneath. I have a lot of work to do to actually make it "well insulated". There's no framework or cabinetry so it's one long virtually empty space. I'll get the second heater in this weekend and see how it goes, I have jackets.

I just bought a diesel heater for my garage. It's well insulated but a fully equipped workspace. It took quite a while running the diesel heater at full blast to bring all the metal and other thermal mass up a few degrees, but now I have the heat sink!

I did the garage to get a feel for the installation effort, and now I can put my first diesel heater in the shuttle bus. Looking forward to push-button heat!