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Old 09-08-2020, 01:23 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Is this bus beyond salvation?

Hi all, without giving you my sob story, I recently bought a 2000 Chevy Express 3500 short bus largely out of desperation. It's moderately rusted, but I am hardly an expert on how much rust is too much rust. This being said, I've been able to twist off about 75% of the bolts holding the seats in just using a wrench and the force of my arms. In addition to these bolts being severely rusted, the floor is also rotted pretty bad.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I've already sunk $2000 into the bus purchase and $2500 on (possibly unnecessary) steering/brakes repairs. Like, is this thing at risk of just snapping in half once I load it up with all my belongings?

I can also upload some pics of parts of the undercarriage later.

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Old 09-08-2020, 01:28 PM   #2
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not all lost.....

show what this rig looks like from under neath..... and then we will go from there

william
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Old 09-08-2020, 01:37 PM   #3
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What you're showing just looks like typical rusty floor. Rust can look terrible on a floor but clean up fairly easily with some phosphoric acid. Take up all the plywood and scrape up the loose rust and then you'll see where you actually are. The big question is how much of the floor is rusted all or most of the way through, since these parts you'll have to cut out and replace with new steel.

You're not in any danger of your bus falling apart on you. The body of the bus (which includes this floor) is made entirely of thin sheet metal, so corrosion that is just surface rust on the chassis (and that's all your going to really find on any used school bus) can be massively destructive to the body.

With the exception that you might have severe corrosion around the floor where the driver's seat is attached, in which case you may not be as well attached in the case of an accident as you would like. I discovered after a great deal of driving that my seat belt tethers were basically only anchored into rusty sheet metal and rotten plywood.

Check out my build thread for some fairly extreme rust remediation, and remember that your bus is probably not as bad as mine was.
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Old 09-08-2020, 01:40 PM   #4
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Also, rather than trying to annihilate the plywood like that, take a circular saw with a demo blade and depth set to a bit less than the plywood thickness, and cut the floor into one- or two-foot squares. It's a lot easier to pry up smaller pieces.

Don't be afraid of damaging the steel floor doing this. You won't be able to do any damage to healthy floor; any holes you put into the rusty metal will be metal you'll need to replace anyway.
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Old 09-08-2020, 02:08 PM   #5
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most seat bolts wring off, no biggy there. Get the plywood out before making any judgement. And as has been said even if the floor is bad shape that is the easy stuff to repair.



Take pictures of the frame, and where the suspension connects to the frame.
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Old 09-08-2020, 04:17 PM   #6
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i have a 2003 chevy 3500 with a collins body.
what body do you have on yours.
definetly get all the plywood up before asessing the rust.
my plywood was held down with T20 torx screws and besides a few that the grinder ate up with no problem.
dont worry about the plywood catching on fire just have a fire watch when you are ready to dig.
a long flat bar and a BFH took care of most of it especially if the plywoods rotten.
demo is the fun part.
good luck
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Old 09-08-2020, 06:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnakansas View Post
show what this rig looks like from under neath..... and then we will go from there

william
Indeed, here are some attached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
What you're showing just looks like typical rusty floor. Rust can look terrible on a floor but clean up fairly easily with some phosphoric acid. Take up all the plywood and scrape up the loose rust and then you'll see where you actually are. The big question is how much of the floor is rusted all or most of the way through, since these parts you'll have to cut out and replace with new steel.

You're not in any danger of your bus falling apart on you. The body of the bus (which includes this floor) is made entirely of thin sheet metal, so corrosion that is just surface rust on the chassis (and that's all your going to really find on any used school bus) can be massively destructive to the body.
Basically, my concern is that if the bolts are rusted in half, isn't that imply massive destruction to other even more important parts of the bus? I guess I will have to look closer once I rip out the rotten plywood.

I'm really not in a position to replace steel.


Quote:
Originally Posted by musigenesis View Post
Also, rather than trying to annihilate the plywood like that.
I actually didn't try to demo the plywood. It was rotten and came off like that when I started pulling up the vinyl floor. Hmm, I'll have to examine the floor once I get all this plywood out. I was, however, hoping originally to use the plywood to build on top of. I have fairly limited resources and for now am working on the side of the street in Brooklyn while living in the bus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
most seat bolts wring off, no biggy there. Get the plywood out before making any judgement. And as has been said even if the floor is bad shape that is the easy stuff to repair.

Take pictures of the frame, and where the suspension connects to the frame.
That's promising news, though I still can't get it out of my head that, of all things, bolts holding seats down would rust in half in the middle of the bus. Seems a bad indicator.

Attached are some photos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Roger bus 223 View Post
i have a 2003 chevy 3500 with a collins body.
what body do you have on yours.
definetly get all the plywood up before asessing the rust.
my plywood was held down with T20 torx screws and besides a few that the grinder ate up with no problem.
dont worry about the plywood catching on fire just have a fire watch when you are ready to dig.
a long flat bar and a BFH took care of most of it especially if the plywoods rotten.
demo is the fun part.
good luck
The body is "SUBN", whatever that is short for. What is BFH? Yeah, I guess I might as well ploy onward for the time being. I'm just worried about burning through what little money I have left on a terrible investment.
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Old 09-08-2020, 07:04 PM   #8
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Here are some random photos.
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IMG_20200908_152312.jpg   IMG_20200908_152413.jpg   IMG_20200908_152526.jpg   IMG_20200908_152427.jpg   IMG_20200908_152328.jpg  

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Old 09-08-2020, 07:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsquared View Post
Basically, my concern is that if the bolts are rusted in half, isn't that imply massive destruction to other even more important parts of the bus?

...

I still can't get it out of my head that, of all things, bolts holding seats down would rust in half in the middle of the bus. Seems a bad indicator.
What happens in a bus is that the windows and light holes leak, and this water gets into the plywood and permanently soaks it (also melted salty snow from kids' boots gets into the plywood in the same way); the wet plywood abrades the steel from road vibration and the rusting process starts. Much of this water gets into the plywood around the bolts, so the spots right around the bolt holes are often the worst-damaged areas.

The pics of your underside look normal for a rusty bus, no signs of anything to worry about as far as your bus falling apart on you. The chassis/undercarriage is made of much thicker steel than the body, so corrosion on it has to happen for a much longer time to produce serious loss of material.
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Old 09-08-2020, 07:57 PM   #10
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I'm really not in a position to replace steel.
Depending on the extent of the floor damage (TBD) you may be able to patch any holes pretty easily, without welding. The issue is whether the cross-members of the floor need to be replaced or if it's just the flat parts that are rusted through in places.
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Old 09-08-2020, 08:43 PM   #11
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How long do you plan to use it? a few years or many years?
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Old 09-09-2020, 07:08 PM   #12
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@musigenesis Got it. Thanks for the clarification.

@Ronnie The original plan was to do it real nice and make it my stead, but now we're just hoping to safely get out of NYC and live comfortably for like a year without further hemhoraging what's left of our money on major repairs, and ideally while safeguarding some kind of resale value.

I was originally planning to make a calculated purchase on a sound bus and work on it in my parents' back yard, but as soon as I went back to NYC from NJ to move out of my old apartment, they suddenly barred me from returning because "COVID", so out of desperation I bought this rust bucket from a hood bus company and don't have a stable place to work on it.
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Old 09-09-2020, 09:17 PM   #13
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Looks like new ball joints, that is good. Rusty brake shield no issue. Although there is certainly rust on the frame it is not terrible. It should hold you for some time. Good bus to learn on then when you can build another one of your dreams when the time is right. So do not get too discouraged on it
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Old 09-12-2020, 04:22 PM   #14
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That’s salvageable, you’ll have lots of self doubt but with time and patients you’ll get there.
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Old 09-12-2020, 04:53 PM   #15
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I would be more concerned of the corrosion on the frame rails. Look at the rear spring hangers, from the factory they are riveted on. Those holes rot out and the springs and rear axle can shift. The other thing is the cross members, rust attacks them hard behind the rear axle. The floor is minor if the frame is bad!
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Old 09-12-2020, 06:41 PM   #16
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No not at all. It'll take some work but it looks fixable. I've rebuilt far worse .
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Old 09-12-2020, 11:54 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alsquared View Post
Hi all, without giving you my sob story, I recently bought a 2000 Chevy Express 3500 short bus largely out of desperation. It's moderately rusted, but I am hardly an expert on how much rust is too much rust. This being said, I've been able to twist off about 75% of the bolts holding the seats in just using a wrench and the force of my arms. In addition to these bolts being severely rusted, the floor is also rotted pretty bad.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. I've already sunk $2000 into the bus purchase and $2500 on (possibly unnecessary) steering/brakes repairs. Like, is this thing at risk of just snapping in half once I load it up with all my belongings?

I can also upload some pics of parts of the undercarriage later.

. Every penny you spend on your POS, transforms it into something closer to a tiny house and a safe one at that! Strip out the floor and repair the super structure. Then seal the roof water tight! It stops, it’ll GO, it will carry you and your stuff. What’s the big deal!?!
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Old 09-13-2020, 02:54 AM   #18
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Bear in mind that the demo stage is VERY dirty work. You mentioned that you are living in it while working on it. That is tough to do. LOTS of pastic sheeting to protect your belongings ... or maybe plastic tubs to hold them and make them easy to move. You will have to move your belonging several times just to get to all that needs to be done. Take your time and plan out what has to be done and when ... to include the placement and moving of belongings.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:26 PM   #19
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Yeah, we're still at the stage of waiting for the plate and trying to find odd jobs to defray costs. We got tje seats out ane it's mostly habitable now, though still pissijg in bottles and showering/charging at gym Hopefully we will be able to find an inexpensive campground or, ideally, some kind of house sitting gig to actually work on it. Lots of time to brainstorm, however.
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Old 09-16-2020, 12:31 PM   #20
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Yeah, these are my major concerns. I forget of I mentioned, but the steering was and still sorta is fairly wonky. IDK if it just needs a wheel alignment, but my fear was and still sorta is that it's related to the right frame rail being slightly bent in the back. Ok the right side of the bus there is a slight fissure between the cab and the cab body, and evidence that the rear of the bus impacted by a collision. I hope that's not the cause of the wonky steering as we already sunk $2k on getting the steering/brakes tuned up.

I guess once we have a stable work space we will try to sand and put product on the rust to prevent it from getting worse.
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