Looks big but is still short?

Thomas1985 · 10-07-2016, 06:00 PM

I'm wanting to purchase a short bus but one with higher clearance and a handicap lift on the front pretty much like this: Public Surplus: Auction #1696664
I'm wondering though are these short big boys still only 17 feet? Also, does anyone know if there is any chance that some were made with gas engines? I really want one that's gas because in my travels it's inevitable that somewhere sometime we're breaking down and I've had better luck finding help in random towns when it comes to that kind of engine. I would rather have the engine out front like this instead of inside right next to you like the traditional little ones. A couple of friends of mine just finished their short bus and drove across the country and got in a double head on collision. The driver was crushed by the engine being so close to him. He lived but it's pretty bad. Maybe these are things people don't normally think about..
I assume they have a little more headroom like 6 foot 4 inches in comparison with a regular short bus. Honestly, if I could find one just like my E450 shuttle bus but short and not fiberglass that would be the best of both worlds. The headroom on that one that I currently have has to be about 8 feet but not being able to build and drill into metal presents its own problems.
Someone tell me that a 17 foot long metal shuttle bus with eight feet of headroom exists!

MattHatlee · 11-21-2016, 03:33 PM

I believe this is what they call a Type-B school bus. I could be wrong.

AlleyCat67 · 11-21-2016, 04:01 PM

It's a type C shorty. Type B buses are built on medium truck chassis (think bread truck), while A's are the pickup/van chassis with bus bodies on them. And to round out the list, the transit-style buses are type D.

Tango · 11-21-2016, 04:06 PM

Never heard of 8' of headroom in a skoolie...but I could be wrong. (?)

AlleyCat67 · 11-21-2016, 04:10 PM

Only if you raise the roof. 6.5 feet is about the most you're gonna get on a factory build.

Bluespoet · 11-21-2016, 04:13 PM

Well for me, fiberglass body is what I have and what I seek. I live in the pacific NW and not having to worry about rust on the body is a huge advantage, I see people sometimes critical of fiberglass bodies, but for many reasons from structural integrity to lack of rust it is all superior to me, but to each his own.

AlleyCat67 · 11-21-2016, 05:04 PM

Fiberglass body isn't my thing, but the fact it doesn't rust is a major advantage of having one, and the lighter weight is another.... but it isn't gonna have the strength of a steel body.

If fiberglass is what you want, then all power to you, not gonna say you're wrong or right since if it's what you want it's right for you. After all you're doing it to please yourself, not other people.

jazty · 11-21-2016, 05:37 PM

The problem with fiberglass bodies that I've seen is that they have lots of wood or cardboard cores that can rot and lots of them have plywood floors with nothing underneath.. They seem to be quite a bit more under built than the normal school buses.

It you find a bus with a T444e you'll have help anywhere there's anyone, especially in rural areas. It's 90% similar to the 7.3l Powerstroke found in late 90s to late 00s Ford F250s and up.

Bluespoet · 11-21-2016, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazty

The problem with fiberglass bodies that I've seen is that they have lots of wood or cardboard cores that can rot and lots of them have plywood floors with nothing underneath.. They seem to be quite a bit more under built than the normal school buses.

It you find a bus with a T444e you'll have help anywhere there's anyone, especially in rural areas. It's 90% similar to the 7.3l Powerstroke found in late 90s to late 00s Ford F250s and up.

I have owned a short fiberglass bus since the 80s in the rainy seattle area and never had the problems you describe.

prof.fate · 11-21-2016, 08:06 PM

depends on the fiberglas..corvettes are 'real' figberglass, many boats are not - there is a wood core. And where you have a hole (bolt for mounting anything) water can get in and rot the core.
Very common on transoms of power boats and decks of sail boats- the wood core is there for strength.

I've not examined a bus body but would think they'd be like corvettes - all fiberglass.

As for strength, school buses are way stronger than just about anything else on the road. More like they're overbilt that to say other things are underbuilt.

jazty · 11-21-2016, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluespoet

I have owned a short fiberglass bus since the 80s in the rainy seattle area and never had the problems you describe.

And I'm sure many buses never do have the problem. But when the ones with cores between the fiberglass go south, oh boy do they ever go south!

Here are a couple shots I pulled up from a quick search of skoolie.net to give you an idea of the structure I'm talking about:

Some of those are from Roach's bus, I think. He fixed it all and did a dynamite job.

Just something to look out for with the van-based fiberglassed body buses.

cowlitzcoach · 11-22-2016, 12:27 AM

The bus that you highlighted is an old bus that has been sitting around long enough to get black slime growing on it.

That translates into a lot of potential problems from sitting around. Water in the fuel tank rusting it out, water in the fuel system getting the fuel system all gunked up, water in the hydraulic brakes requiring repair/rebuild/replacement of all of the brake cylinders, rubber hoses rotting (brake, coolant, power steering, etc), and corrosion in the electrical system.

I would not bid any higher than the $1K already bid.

As far as gas powered buses are concerned, GM still offered an OEM vendor supplied chassis up into the early 2000's that still had a gas engine option. I think by that time the only bus body using that chassis was Blue Bird. Gas engines have become the preferred engine in new Type 'A' buses for about ten years now. Which means they are starting to show up on the used market now. If you want an IHC bus with a gas engine you will have to go back to about 1984 when IHC stopped making a gas engine.

Don't get me wrong. I think the SV and MV gas V-8 engines are some of the best engines ever put into a school bus. But those buses were built strictly for to/from routes and were never intended to go highway speeds of extended periods of time. The last gas powered bus I drove on a regular basis was a 1978 IHC Loadstar chassis and an 11-row Thomas body with an MV-404 V-8 and Allison automatic. It was a great bus up to 50-55 MPH. It really did NOT like going much faster than 55 MPH. You could make it go faster but you could watch the gas gauge go down at those faster speeds. Full size gas powered buses get 1/3-1/2 the fuel mileage of a diesel powered bus of the same size. Think in terms of 3-4 MPG if it has an automatic. If it has the Ford 534 V-8 or the IHC MV-446 think in terms of 2-3 MPG with an automatic.

milkmania · 11-22-2016, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prof.fate

depends on the fiberglas..corvettes are 'real' figberglass, many boats are not - there is a wood core. And where you have a hole (bolt for mounting anything) water can get in and rot the core.
Very common on transoms of power boats and decks of sail boats- the wood core is there for strength.

I've not examined a bus body but would think they'd be like corvettes - all fiberglass.

As for strength, school buses are way stronger than just about anything else on the road. More like they're overbilt that to say other things are underbuilt.

Mastercraft is an exception to the rule... Fiberglass stringers

Goatherder · 11-22-2016, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazty

Some of those are from Roach's bus, I think. He fixed it all and did a dynamite job. Just something to look out for with the van-based fiberglassed body buses.

WOW thats some crap construction. Fiberglass with a proper core (like Diab Divinycell) is wicked strong and would have none of these problems. Might've cost them another $500 to build.

Whoever built that should be ashamed.

Bluespoet · 11-22-2016, 06:56 AM

School busses are NOT way stronger when they are rusty. Maybe they are in the desert, but most of the country has rain, snow and salt that eats up steel bodies and we have many fine example of rusty school busses in the pacific nw.

leadsled01 · 11-23-2016, 06:40 AM

My shuttle has dense foam insulation sandwiched between 2 fiberglass layers. Steel 1'' tubing for ribs. Probably not as robust as a skoolie but very well made.

2kool4skool · 11-23-2016, 08:36 AM

Since no one else picked up on it.....

"Looks big but is still short? "

That's what he asked her.

Thomas1985 · 12-07-2016, 08:23 PM

Ha ha. Phrasing. Touche

-Thomas

roach711 · 12-07-2016, 09:00 PM

The pictures of degraded fiberglass show some water damage from a few windows that poor maintenance allowed to leak and the water delaminated the cardboard-like center of the fiberglass body on my Eldorado Aerotech. The "intact" fiberglass is still very stiff and strong. I could host a party on the roof and the walls are quite rigid. My cabinets are all screwed to the inner fiberglass skin and haven't budged after nearly 4 years use. The wheel wells and stairwell are both rust-free aluminum from the factory. The Eldorado's are the only shuttle buses that are crash tested.

I'm not claiming that my shuttle is as robust as a school bus but I'm quite happy with the construction.

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