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Old 12-26-2020, 01:57 PM   #161
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@EastCoastCB,
@ol trunt,

Thanks so much! Sorry for the rapid-fire posts, but I'm trying to catch up & maybe still have time to get some work in today! Really appreciate the comments.

Up close the paint job would make citrus fruit blush, but that was expected, and for the most part it's consistent. From a few feet away it looks great. With my eyes you don't even need those few feet

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Old 12-26-2020, 01:59 PM   #162
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all I hope for in painting my bus is to-

make it a color that isn't yellow

Keep it from rusting

look good from 10-20 feet away

last more than a couple years


Where did you source that paint?
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Old 12-26-2020, 02:05 PM   #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I've been shopping around looking at single stage industrial and automotive/fleet coatings. Just can't make up my mind what direction I wana go with that.


I didn't do any research whatsoever on single stage paints, unfortunately.
You thinking of spray application?
Really wish I could have sprayed. Oh well. It saved more than a few $$ in not-wasted paint. Would have required supplied air otherwise as well.
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Old 12-26-2020, 02:09 PM   #164
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I could spray or roll it. Either way.
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Old 12-26-2020, 02:13 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
all I hope for in painting my bus is to-

make it a color that isn't yellow

Keep it from rusting

look good from 10-20 feet away

last more than a couple years


Where did you source that paint?
Those were our requirements as well, only I wanted it to last much longer than 2 years. I never, ever, ever, want to prep &/or paint a bus again!

Here's where we got it. No idea where they come down on price, as I have nothing to compare it to. I couldn't source Axalta products locally, and the similar industrial PPG products I could have gotten locally, would have cost more than what we got even after hazmat fees.

https://www.johnsonautobodysupply.com

I can say they're very professional, have quick shipping, package their products very well, and matched our color perfectly.

For you or anyone else who might be considering the same products we used, Corlar requires a special thinner for rolling (RT001P), while Imron requires a special additive for the same (don't remember off top of head). Both are specified the in associated TDS. The RT001P was the one thing I had to find from another (online) vendor. They did not package things nearly as well as the biz above, nor were they nearly as professional, which is why I won't include their name here. I feel sorry for the FedEx guy that got to handle that box. Luckily I didn't need the whole gallon.
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Old 12-26-2020, 02:49 PM   #166
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Quality work and great motivation guys!
Keep at it and you'll be on the road in no time.
Big thumbs up.

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Old 12-26-2020, 07:13 PM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
I was so busy prepping I didn't have it in me to take pics at the same time. But we did so much. To include:

1) Every trace of silicone used by prior peeps was removed. Paint hates silicone. I hate silicone. I hate those who used silicone on our bus. But most of all, I hate removing it. The best way we found was to remove as much as possible mechanically, then use xylene and/or contractor-grade adhesive remover to soften it enough to mechanically remove the rest. Any painted surfaces that had silicone on them we sanded down to bare metal after removal, just to be sure it didn't destroy paint adhesion.

2) Every single seam was inspected, cleaned, sanded, grooved (to apply new sealant), and then resealed using 3M 550 FC adhesive / sealant. Every single rivet or screw was inspected, and where necessary, replaced. Thankfully, the sealant used when constructing the cap is compatible with the aforementioned polyurethane sealant I used, so in places where the factory seals were intact (>90%), we simply cleaned & abraded the old sealant, & applied the 3M over the top, & it adhered great. I then went inside and hit every seam again, just as backup if any got through the already-bulletproof exterior. Mr Beefy is officially leak-free, I guar-an-tee.

3) Bondo & sanding primer were used to fill in all the necessary dings, divets, and scratches which couldn't be sanded out. There are a couple dents that would have been nearly impossible to pull out & too big for body filler which we just left. But for the most part we created a clean, flat surface.

4) Multiple power-washings, degreasing with simple green & TSP, etc.

5) Sanding went from 180, to 220, to 320 dry. An orbital was an absolute necessity, but we ended up going over the whole thing by hand w/ 400 grit as the last step, mainly because I had to use it to sand so many curvy areas (hood, front end, etc) that finishing off the flat stuff by hand was no big deal. I originally planned on taking the whole thing down to bare metal, but after testing the adhesion of the factory paint (excellent adhesion), and testing to assure the primer wouldn't lift it, it made more sense not to. Still ended up going to bare metal on roughly 10-20% of the exterior as required.

6) All rubber / trim / lights / etc removed. Front fenders removed. Front door removed. electric panel & battery box doors removed. Windows were already removed. All weatherstrip removed.
This is so impressive! And SO thorough! Despite time consuming, will give you peace of mind. This is exactly our plan. In 28 degree weather, we've gutted our 37' bus, (two trips to the dump necessitated my learning how to drive it and are cleaning our windows - it is painful. The bus itself was easy to scrape, and sand, but the window frames themselves are a different story - scraping was damaging the metal, so used goo gone, and it didnt do a thing (not a thing!!) to remove all the sealant. Now we just have slimy nasty toxic windows, and again, doing this for 8 hours in 30 degree weather with slippery chemical gloves and full face respirators on.

So, QUESTION: When you said above removed silicone "mechanically", what were your mechanics? At this point, we will wash all the nasty goo gone off our windows tomorrow (have to boil water on the barn wood stove to add to the freezing hose water to make it warm), and then ... we are stumped. The window frame metal (I assume aluminum) is so sensitive, we are scraping it terribly, which we've surrendered to, and are considering just sanding off the sealant. Anyone have thoughts?

We are in a race to get these windows back in by Monday (1 day from now) because the weather will briefly be a warm 50 degrees, and though we chose a sealant that can work in the cold, we much prefer to do this is warmer weather, much more likely to be more thorough if our fingertips arent frozen.
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Old 12-26-2020, 07:17 PM   #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
@Sevier,

Apologies for the late response. Been absent from forums as of late. I'll shoot you a PM to make sure you see this post.

Yes, degrease and thoroughly clean bare metal, then mechanically abrade. Definitely clean / degrease before or you'll just drive contaminates into the 'pores' of the metal you're creating.

We used both a wire wheel / angle grinder on the well-rusted / flaky / scaled areas, as well as an orbital sander on anything that was still relatively flat. The better you do here the better the adhesion. Just because the ospho will etch the metal doesn't mean thorough mechanical prep isn't much better than ospho alone. Just because they say you don't have to doesn't mean it isn't a really good idea to. We left zero bare metal untouched by grinder or sander.

Lots of controversy & differing opinions on the necessity of removing all ospho, and to an extent it depends on the paint you're using. But no matter what you're using, residual ospho will NOT help anything adhere, and from all the info I've gathered, could very well lead to paint failure. The safest bet is to let it do it's work (it needs to stay wet while working, so don't let it evap.), and then rinse every bit of it away thoroughly with water and get the surface bone dry before priming. A power washer is REALLY helpful here, assuming your bus is gutted to the point you can. Here's the owner of SPI (paint manufacturer) laying down the law, which is the advice I followed, & I'm glad I did.

How to neutralize Ospho | Southern Polyurethanes Forum

FYI, the Klean-Strip ospho you have is exactly what we used, and the MSDS shows it to be pretty much the same composition as ospho-branded phosphoric acid.

I'm actually well-positioned now to comment on the long-term durability of our KBS-coated interior floor, which most people probably don't get the opportunity to do as they often put their wood flooring and/or insulation down right after. COULDN'T BE HAPPIER. We've now been working for months on that floor - which is not yet covered. Sliding bare-metal ladders around, dropping heavy tools, drips & spills from various cleaners & solvents, etc. Constant under-foot flexing (I'm 260#) of weakened areas where rust was heaviest. Yet zero signs of delamination or lifting, and even the 'worst' scratches from the most careless boo-boos (like dropping claw hammers & drills from 6' height) could be buffed out if I cared to. The combination of flexibility + durability is outstanding. When we finally get wood over the top, I'm confident the underlying metal will be protected from further corrosion for years & years to come.

Finally, don't do the fiberglass mesh thing we did. It works - and it's really cool to see just how durable these patches + paint are - but I see now in retrospect it's unnecessarily labor-intensive, and it's easy to leave small voids that require touch-up later. The pennies / construction adhesive bit most people do makes a lot more sense. Sometimes creative solutions are a bad thing lol.

TL;DR:

1) Clean & Degrease thoroughly with water-based cleaner (Simple Green, TSP / TSP sub, etc) and abrasive scrub pads
2) Rinse thoroughly then dry
3) Mechanical abrasion (wire wheel, sanding)
4) Apply ospho liberally, keep wet (by adding more if needed) the entire time until ready to rinse (15-30 mins)
5) Rinse thoroughly, Dry thoroughly
6) Primer / Paint

This is so helpful, thankyou! I feel very encouraged, its so stressful agonizing over the correct approach. Its so important to use that our bus is a healthy bus. And no need to apologize, it looks like youve been busy, and the new paint job looks beautiful! Congrats on getting to this stage!
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Old 12-26-2020, 08:07 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevier View Post
So, QUESTION: When you said above removed silicone "mechanically", what were your mechanics? At this point, we will wash all the nasty goo gone off our windows tomorrow (have to boil water on the barn wood stove to add to the freezing hose water to make it warm), and then ... we are stumped. The window frame metal (I assume aluminum) is so sensitive, we are scraping it terribly, which we've surrendered to, and are considering just sanding off the sealant. Anyone have thoughts?
@Sevier,

If you're talking about the (steel) frame of the bus, and you're repainting, you can be pretty aggressive. I used a utility knife and/or razor-blade scrapers to get it as close to the surface as possible, and then nylon brushes + a solvent to rough up the film remaining. Once you get to the point where you have to view it on an angle to see the silicone film, solvent plus a rough-textured cotton rag worked pretty well. Then I'd degrease, and finally sand as required for paint. I'm no authority, but I believe if you just try to sand it all off along with the paint in one step, you risk driving silicone into the pores of the metal. It also gums up your sandpaper rendering it useless in short order. Mechanical here means anything that works and won't leave scratches so big they don't come out once you start sanding ;)

If you're talking the aluminum frame of the window, then yeah - you have to be much less aggressive. Anything steel will etch or cut it, as you know. Aluminum wire wheels (hard to find) are an option but nylon 'wire' wheels (like for a drill) seem to work as well or better and won't harm aluminum one bit, and using a drill rather than scraping by hand is a huge time-saver. You'll have to do some stuff by hand, but the less the better. Metal razors & scrapers will shave it like butter so only use plastic equivalents if you're risk-averse. That being said, I know our bus used polyurethane - not silicone - as a sealant, which is also what we're using for reassembly, and that will come off with (relative) ease using solvents such as xylene combined w/ light scrubbing. Pretty easy to figure out if it's not silicone: If xylene dissolves it (wear PPE!), it is not silicone. If the visible portions of your frames are scratched up as you say, and you care, you're past the point of no return, so maybe it's best to just continue sanding working up in grit until you get a finish you like (you could polish them like chrome if that's your style! Boat-load of work though)?. Or sand as required & then paint. If it's the portions that will be invisible once installed, then the scratches shouldn't matter, but I doubt you'd have mentioned them if that was the case.

Good luck! I'm excited for you!
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Old 12-26-2020, 08:57 PM   #170
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You're taking the time to do it right, and it's showing in spades. Excellent work, and the paint job looks stellar!
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Old 12-26-2020, 10:41 PM   #171
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Great job on prep and paint!! Your bus looks great!!! Hopefully in the spring when it starts to warm up we will get our bus painted... It is a post like this that gets me fired up to want to make ours "not yellow"... Anyhow, great work!! And thanks for all of the details!!
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Old 12-26-2020, 11:40 PM   #172
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Sweet paint job! Imron paint is what my local auto body supply suggested as a durable commercial vehicle paint for my bus.

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Old 12-27-2020, 06:16 PM   #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
@Sevier,

If you're talking about the (steel) frame of the bus, and you're repainting, you can be pretty aggressive. I used a utility knife and/or razor-blade scrapers to get it as close to the surface as possible, and then nylon brushes + a solvent to rough up the film remaining. Once you get to the point where you have to view it on an angle to see the silicone film, solvent plus a rough-textured cotton rag worked pretty well. Then I'd degrease, and finally sand as required for paint. I'm no authority, but I believe if you just try to sand it all off along with the paint in one step, you risk driving silicone into the pores of the metal. It also gums up your sandpaper rendering it useless in short order. Mechanical here means anything that works and won't leave scratches so big they don't come out once you start sanding ;)

If you're talking the aluminum frame of the window, then yeah - you have to be much less aggressive. Anything steel will etch or cut it, as you know. Aluminum wire wheels (hard to find) are an option but nylon 'wire' wheels (like for a drill) seem to work as well or better and won't harm aluminum one bit, and using a drill rather than scraping by hand is a huge time-saver. You'll have to do some stuff by hand, but the less the better. Metal razors & scrapers will shave it like butter so only use plastic equivalents if you're risk-averse. That being said, I know our bus used polyurethane - not silicone - as a sealant, which is also what we're using for reassembly, and that will come off with (relative) ease using solvents such as xylene combined w/ light scrubbing. Pretty easy to figure out if it's not silicone: If xylene dissolves it (wear PPE!), it is not silicone. If the visible portions of your frames are scratched up as you say, and you care, you're past the point of no return, so maybe it's best to just continue sanding working up in grit until you get a finish you like (you could polish them like chrome if that's your style! Boat-load of work though)?. Or sand as required & then paint. If it's the portions that will be invisible once installed, then the scratches shouldn't matter, but I doubt you'd have mentioned them if that was the case.

Good luck! I'm excited for you!
This was so helpful, thankyou! We figured out our routine today (and that there are 4 different sealants on the aluminum window frame, all of which respond differently to different solvents!). Mineral spirits, 3M heavy duty stripping pads, rags, plastic scrapers, nylon wire wheels, nylons scrub brushes, water warmed in a cast iron pot on the wood stove, and full face respirators We got it!

Enjoy your newly painted beaut!
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Old 12-31-2020, 06:42 PM   #174
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Well done on the paint work. Quality ingredients and prep work are so worth it. I decided to get mine painted in a hurry and am regretting not prepping a little better. Already getting a little peeling in the crevasses I didnít prep well enough. Yes, silicone is hell to remove but I got most of it off. Itís not a valuable bus so it will be interesting to see how long the rattle can spray job lasts. I did pressure wash 3 times and go over most of it with scotchbrite and some of it with a random orbit sander. Went with Spring Green. Enjoy
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Old 01-01-2021, 08:16 AM   #175
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Spectacular work.

Happy New Year!
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Old 01-01-2021, 09:04 AM   #176
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Sander, Doktari, thanks so much. Yeah, the prep was well worth it, but dang... one heck of a lot of work. Still, it's orders of magnitude less work (and expense) of having to redo a failed job. I do wish we had more experience w/ these products going in. All our minor problems were all aesthetic - orange peel from the primer, irregularities if you catch the light just right from not maintaining a wet edge or rolling back over paint already laid down, and tiny bubbles in the paint. I said I'd never paint this bus again, and for now I mean it, but there may very well come a day I decide to knock down the topcoat & see if we can implement the lessons learned. It sticks & it's durable though, & those were our goals.


And HAPPY NEW YEAR to EVERYONE!!!! 2020 can eat a bag of (insert whatever you want here. Let's keep this family friendly).


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Old 01-01-2021, 11:10 AM   #177
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Happy New Year, Hubbards!
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Old 01-01-2021, 11:17 AM   #178
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Happy New Year!
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Old 01-02-2021, 07:20 PM   #179
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how to clean a bus like yours!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHubbardBus View Post
We've been absent from the forums for a while. I'm happy to report it was mostly due to getting stuff done! Lots of progress made, so here's a summary of the past few months:


First, we got the interior paint completed. Our focus was to eliminate any chance of future corrosion while also providing a good primer upon which our future spray-foam will adhere. Product of choice was PPG Amerlock 400, a 2-part epoxy as recommended by a super-helpful PPG industrial rep. It was applied by brush & roller @ ~4 mils DFT. We've been working in the bus for a while now since it cured, including doing plenty to the roof (painted) surface, and we're very pleased with the performance. Prep was extensive, which is the big reason it all worked out so well.
Hello there! Was wondering how you got your bus so incredibly gorgeously clean? It is unreal, how much dirt is on a bus, pounds of just dirt!

We are especially unsure about that little gap on the lower 1/3 of the walls, between the outer wall and the inner wall, where insulation was stuffed (I think I burned more calories ripping out that insulation then I burned pulling out all the seats!). If we power wash back there, will the water drain out? We cant see back there well enough to identify holes. It has got to be vile back there, and leaving behind the kind of mold and grime that lives on this bus for the last 20 years does not lend to a safe and healthy living environment.

Also wondering if you had an effective technique for getting glue off the floor? Unfortunately, we didnt have plywood, just rubber, and so after chiseling the rubber off 220 sq ft, we are now faced with a sea of glue to remove. We've considered Zirconia Flap Disks, Roloc Bristle Disks, regular old wire wheels, elbow grease with degreaser, mineral spirits, and a power washer. When all done with the dirt and glue and grime, will wipe with ammonia and leave some chlorine dioxide bombs in there to be sure we zapped all the germs and mold.

Thankyou!!
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Old 01-02-2021, 09:00 PM   #180
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Just read through this whole thread! Excellent adventure from start to semi-finished! I don't have much patience for painting my bus and at the same time would like it to look good from 3-5 feet away. For that I am sure it will cost me. Keep up the pictures!
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