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Old 03-14-2018, 01:45 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by homebus View Post
Yeah, the mpg would actually get to 60 at some points, and the rpm's would jump a little higher, but for the most part they stayed at 2,700. I was surprised that I saw the mpg increase at all, but it only did when going down the mountain. Guess I figured somehow the governor would prevent that.

The gearing ratio says 511. Just realized the crap image quality, sorry bout that.
Don't you mean MPH, not mpg?
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebus View Post
Yeah, the mpg would actually get to 60 at some points, and the rpm's would jump a little higher, but for the most part they stayed at 2,700. I was surprised that I saw the mpg increase at all, but it only did when going down the mountain. Guess I figured somehow the governor would prevent that.

The gearing ratio says 511. Just realized the crap image quality, sorry bout that.
I couldnt read the images.. but if the RPMs vary quite a bit as you let on and off the gas and dont explicitlky follow the Speed you likely have an allison 545 transmission.. wit hthat transmission, the engine and driveline are not "Locked" you are always running against the torque converter.. your engine ROM is likely limited to 2700 or 2800 Unloaded RPM.. (rev max in neutral).. and 2600 or 2700 RPM Loaded. (computer RPM limit when enbgine is loaded in gear)..

the computer speed limiter of 55 doesnt always mean the RPM will be 2500... gear-wise it may mean that however with the unlocked torque converter slippage your engine RPMs may go red line 3700 esp if you are climbing any incline at all... and then the RPMs will drop but speed increase if you go over 55 in a downhill as the computer has cut engine power but the bus is free-wheeling down a hill and can go over the 55 Limit..

nevertheless even turning off the computer speed limit wont help as others have mentioned, you are out of gears
-Christopher
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:46 PM   #23
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2 things of note.

#1. First and foremost, you have no idea how jealous I am of that bus.. That is exactly what I am trying to find / talk about. Not too small, but don't need a coast guard inspection to navigate either...

#2. It drives me nuts that almost all the short / mid busses are chair lift equipped. That big hump in the back corner just looks off to me... But then my brain gets to clicking away... Anybody ever do a slide out with one of those?
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:45 PM   #24
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Could i get the name of the dealership you used?
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Old 03-14-2018, 06:57 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by rensch26 View Post
Ok, so it sounds like you definitely have a speed governor programmed to your ECM. When you're going downhill you'll actually feel the engine cut fuel delivery and any speed you gain over 55mph will be due to gravity and momentum. At the bottom of the hill you'll feel the engine start to pull again once your speed dips below the 55mph limit. Your gear ratio isn't actually all that bad. It's probably appropriate for the 190hp rating of your engine. The only real option you have to go faster is to talk to a dealership an see if they can raise that governed speed.
Glad to hear my gear ratio isn't too bad, I've had my fingers crossed. I haven't noticed much difference in the engine like you're talking about cause I'm still so new to driving this thing and mostly worrying about hot I'm driving around everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Don't you mean MPH, not mpg?
Well yes, yes I did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I couldnt read the images.. but if the RPMs vary quite a bit as you let on and off the gas and dont explicitlky follow the Speed you likely have an allison 545 transmission.. wit hthat transmission, the engine and driveline are not "Locked" you are always running against the torque converter.. your engine ROM is likely limited to 2700 or 2800 Unloaded RPM.. (rev max in neutral).. and 2600 or 2700 RPM Loaded. (computer RPM limit when enbgine is loaded in gear)..

the computer speed limiter of 55 doesnt always mean the RPM will be 2500... gear-wise it may mean that however with the unlocked torque converter slippage your engine RPMs may go red line 3700 esp if you are climbing any incline at all... and then the RPMs will drop but speed increase if you go over 55 in a downhill as the computer has cut engine power but the bus is free-wheeling down a hill and can go over the 55 Limit..

nevertheless even turning off the computer speed limit wont help as others have mentioned, you are out of gears
-Christopher
Thank you for, once again, coming through with so much information. Well looks like I'm stuck with a bus that goes 55 whether or not I remove the governor. That doesn't really bother me too much, it would be nice to do 60 though. One day maybe. So you mentioned RPM's redlining at 3700. Obviously I never wanna get that high, but that brings me to a question I have: what is the highest temp/highest RPM's I'd want to see from my bus before I start to get concerned? I have to drive it on a two hour trip up some mountains at the end of April (and I don't have a choice about the drive; that's where I'm moving to and I have to take my bus/house). Do you not recommend ANY mountain driving? Or just to keep an eye on it and limit as much as possible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbhost View Post
2 things of note.

#1. First and foremost, you have no idea how jealous I am of that bus.. That is exactly what I am trying to find / talk about. Not too small, but don't need a coast guard inspection to navigate either...

#2. It drives me nuts that almost all the short / mid busses are chair lift equipped. That big hump in the back corner just looks off to me... But then my brain gets to clicking away... Anybody ever do a slide out with one of those?
Gaaaah, you know, I can't say it feels good to be on this side of things. I know exactly that feeling, but hey, then again, maybe you'd be better off with a bus that's not governed/has a better gear ratio. Good luck to you though dbhost!

----------------------------

Okay y'all, so I took some trips today (in my bus too, cause the transmission on my car is going out) and bought supplies to start working on the floor. I still need to take the bolts out from the E track, but I don't have extra hands to help right now and wanted to keep feeling productive. Here's what I plan for the floor, and as per usual, lemme know what y'all think:

- rip up rubber coating and fill in holes (I want to use some kind of epoxy and just affix something over them)
- paint with rustoleum (although, if the rust is minor is that even necessary?)
- lay 1 1/2" XPS insulation (R-value 7.5) down with construction adhesive
- lay 3/4" OSB board over insulation, also with adhesive
- hit the gaps with Great Stuff gaps and cracks
- possibly a paper bag/epoxy finish

I've read a bunch of people going this route and just bypassing the frame entirely. Because of the time crunch and budget I'm on (about $200 for floor, don't laugh I can do it!), I'm gunna try it. I like the idea of a paper bag/epoxy floor, and have helped with them in the past. I am concerned, however, about creating an air tight seal that doesn't allow moisture to dissipate. I'm also guessing the insulation I bought is unfaced, because both sides look the same and it doesn't say either way.

Thanks everyone. So friggin excited to start rolling once I get these dang bolts outta the floor.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:15 PM   #26
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Change out the OSB for plywood. It will cost a little more, but there is no place for OSB in a build that will be subjected to the variations in humidity that an RV gets.

It's worth the extra.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:54 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
Change out the OSB for plywood. It will cost a little more, but there is no place for OSB in a build that will be subjected to the variations in humidity that an RV gets.

It's worth the extra.
Ehhhhhh, yeah. Came home after Home Depot and wrote that all out immediately. Did research, saw your comment The thing is, one of the boars fell on the way home and got damaged. I guess I could still return the other three, and maybe I can use the damaged one to lay across the frame I build for my bed? I really can't afford to upgrade to better wood AND be out $25 for that OSB panel. Though I hear you, and am seeing now that plywood will be worth it in the long run.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebus View Post
Ehhhhhh, yeah. Came home after Home Depot and wrote that all out immediately. Did research, saw your comment The thing is, one of the boars fell on the way home and got damaged. I guess I could still return the other three, and maybe I can use the damaged one to lay across the frame I build for my bed? I really can't afford to upgrade to better wood AND be out $25 for that OSB panel. Though I hear you, and am seeing now that plywood will be worth it in the long run.
lol ... sorry about the sheet.

So one thing I learned is to post your plans here ahead of the time you put them into action.

That way, people can contribute ideas and give you things to think about. You may still go your original way, but you'll do so better informed of the alternates.

Good Luck.
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:34 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homebus View Post
Ehhhhhh, yeah. Came home after Home Depot and wrote that all out immediately. Did research, saw your comment The thing is, one of the boars fell on the way home and got damaged. I guess I could still return the other three, and maybe I can use the damaged one to lay across the frame I build for my bed? I really can't afford to upgrade to better wood AND be out $25 for that OSB panel. Though I hear you, and am seeing now that plywood will be worth it in the long run.
Home Depot will accept the damaged return.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:00 PM   #30
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Quote:
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So one thing I learned is to post your plans here ahead of the time you put them into action.

That way, people can contribute ideas and give you things to think about. You may still go your original way, but you'll do so better informed of the alternates.
Heed these words of wisdom above.

The folks on here have saved me cash AND time on several occasions. It never hurts to ask questions.....a lot of us are new to this.

Then, given time and experience, it will be YOU providing guidance to the newbies.
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Old 03-14-2018, 10:03 PM   #31
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I will second the "do not use OSB for floors". Really bad idea. Does not play well with moisture and your floor will be/get moist. Whether from window leaks or simply sweating and condensation.
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Old 03-15-2018, 10:49 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
lol ... sorry about the sheet.

So one thing I learned is to post your plans here ahead of the time you put them into action.

That way, people can contribute ideas and give you things to think about. You may still go your original way, but you'll do so better informed of the alternates.

Good Luck.
Gaaaah I know!! I was at Home Depot and actually had the plywood on a dolly, but then talking to a guy who worked there (who does construction) he was telling me there really isn't any difference between the two, other than that OSB not being flame retardant. I don't have a working phone or I would have just sat my butt in the isle and did some research myself.

But lesson learned. Okay so, I'm thinking about either eating cereal or eggs for breakfast. Before I **** this up too, any suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by o1marc View Post
Home Depot will accept the damaged return.
Wow I hope so! I'm going to look into that right now.

Okay okay, so I'm going to exchange the OSB for plywood. I'm starting to think using the old construction adhesive I got from the Restore isn't a good idea. I'll just suck it up and buy some new stuff. I remember reading something about PL...I can't remember now and I've looked all over the forums for specific names of construction adhesive. Now I can't find it.
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Old 03-15-2018, 11:22 AM   #33
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Oh, also, today I'm gunna take a panel off and check the quality of the insulation on the inside. I was thinking about just doing the floors and moving to layout/setting everything up (I know having the floor insulation can only do so much but I'm pressed for time and money right now) but I did find a craigslist ad for a roll of R-13 insulation (covers about 130 sq ft) that's normally $50 that I might be able to get for $40. What do y'all think of that stuff vs XPS boards?

Also also: I contacted a few local places where I could donate the wheelchair lift, but none will remove it for me. Still trying to figure that one out. Should I avoid cutting any wires and just try to disconnect the electric from the battery and feed it through? Not sure what's the best for the folks who want to set it up again.
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:04 PM   #34
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Update: Returned the OSB and bought 3/4" ply. I also decided to return the 2" XPS and buy 1/2" instead. I know I'll loose a lot of insulation, but I really want as much headroom as possible.

So after too many hours this past Saturday with a cruddy cordless angle grinder, and a quarter that time Sunday with a corded angle grinder, my friend Micky and I removed all the E-tracks and ripped up the rubber flooring. And guess what?! Almost no rust! I am beyond floored (heh heh) and was jumping for joy. Micky, on the other hand, was not, but only because he is 6'5".

Next I'm going to treat the rust. I'm not really sure how to go about getting all the rust around the holes, but I'm thinking of just hitting it with a hammer and flaking off as much as I can and hand sanding the rest. I don't have access to that angle grinder anymore. The corners got me stumped. Then for patching:

- big holes - a sheet of metal with some epoxy
- smaller bolt holes - pennies and epoxy

I hear mixed things about the pennies reacting to the steel body from people, but I'd like to give it a go; I have quite a lot of pennies and it seems the quickest option. Is there any other options that y'all have tried for patching holes around that size (I tried to get my feet in there for reference) without a welder or angle grinder?

Also, the best news yet is that MICKY IS GIVING ME HARDWOOD FLOORING HE HAS FOR FREE. He really is such a pal, I can't express the gratitude and excitement I have.


There's a bit of yellow paint on the floor, and some shoe prints. It's cool to think about the folks who were walking around in there painting 21 years ago.



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Old 03-20-2018, 05:23 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twigg View Post
Change out the OSB for plywood. It will cost a little more, but there is no place for OSB in a build that will be subjected to the variations in humidity that an RV gets.

It's worth the extra.
ive had my osb t&g in my bus for 3 years now no problem, its a great product i m o. advantec has a 30 year warranty its mostly glue. plywood is more veneer with little glue and will delaminate if it gets wet. nobody uses ply in home sub floors any more, if the home did not get dried in before a good rain it wood destroy the floor. its now used for the roof and exterior walls because it holds up to moister allot better.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:38 AM   #36
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Homebus - sorry i missed your reply a few days ago.. 2700 is the redline, not 3700, you can certainly drive it in the mountains, Ive driven my DT360 / AT545 in mountains out east.. (even ran Monteagle with it).. just be watchful of the engine temperature / oil pressure, and Trans temp if you have a gauge.. in cooler weather you arent likely to run hot, however be watchful.. in a DT-466. if you start creeping the gauge past the 210 mark. then id slow it down a bit, or take a rest area. and let it IDLE back down to that 180-190 mark.. its not uncommon for the Fan clutches to be weak or defective in these.. (achools never know because it doesnt seem to heat up until you get it on the freeway pulling hills or hot weather)..

when I drive my DT360 in the hills, I just hang out in the trucker lane and take it easy climbing.. and with an AT545 downhills are esp important to keep slow.. you have very little engine braking with an AT545 in 4th gear.. (again I dont know which transmission you have.. a lot of the driving you choose is dependent on whether you have an AT545 or MT643... pics from under the bus would tell us which one you have. )..

long downhill grades should be taken with caution like the truckers do... I take them slow and easy... if I stay below 45 on long downhills my AT545 shifted into '3' will stay in 3rd gear and give me decent engine braking.. above 45 it kicks to 4th gear and freewheels..
-Christopher
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:11 PM   #37
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If you don't have a corded angle grinder, get one. $20 at Harbor Fright. It is likely the single most go-to tool in bus demolition. Cheap and essential.
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Old 03-20-2018, 01:14 PM   #38
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I agree with Superdave, the normal plywood is not moisture resistant at all. take a quick look at Mullets delamination... Also Tango is completely right...it will get wet. If you really want to "help" your beloved rusted metal floor then you have to keep it dry and breathing. You might as well leave the rusted holes if they are in location where water does not splash up.
I would first put a water drain sheet up like used against houses under the soil level, then insulation and then whatever wood you want.

later J
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Old 03-24-2018, 12:26 PM   #39
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Sprayed the rusty bits with Rustoleum rust reformer (got the stuff in a can since I really didn't have rust in many places), cut out the parts that were too rusty, sanded the glue on the floor from the rubber best as I could, and figured I'd use the PL Premium construction adhesive to fill all the holes instead of going out to buy epoxy. I cut some patches out of the shell from my roommates trailer they're renovating to glue over the bigger holes. I'm aware that the camper shell is possibly made out of aluminum and that it could react poorly to the steel. I'm banking on the floor not getting wet since there is no rust anywhere but the corners, and the windows don't leak. Fingers crossed for the next 20 years



Here's the floor post-sanding and pre-hole filling. All the dark spots are from the glue that's still stuck, and the yellowish spots are where I sanded through the thickest parts of the glue. I'm wondering if I even have to paint the floor? I know it helps to prevent rust, but if there isn't any to begin with does it really make a difference? I don't want to cut corners where it really will matter too much, but I'm down to one month until I have to move and would love to start gluing the floors today instead of waiting two days for the paint to dry. Any thoughts?
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Old 03-25-2018, 01:56 PM   #40
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Paint it. You'll always wonder if you don't.

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