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Old 07-23-2011, 04:36 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
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Year: 1996
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Engine: 7.3l Powerstroke Diesel
Rear AC info?

Hi,

I am trying to figure out how the rear ac works in my bus. My bus is a partially converted '96 e350 shorty with a 7.3l powerstroke. Manufacturar is Thor; brand is Eldorado. The AC -- both front and back -- is not blowing cold, just cool. Do the coolant lines run all the way from the front of the bus, or is there a seperate system added by the aftermarket manufacturer, Eldorado? If so, where would I find the recharge/testing ports, and would the same system of tests and diagnoisis for the vechile itself apply to the additional AC unit? Or am I totally off base here? Also, does anyone know how to get ahold of service manuals for these kinds of vechiles? If I could find one it would make things much easier to work on.

Cheers,
Tim
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:24 PM   #2
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Re: Rear AC info?

The short answer is, probably both run from one compressor on the engine. I would guess that the charge ports are in the engine compartment along with the filter drier ass. If the engine has to be running for the air to work that is probably the situation. And the most likely. I would guess that you are low on freon.Does your bus have the nose of a standard E350 like a class C motorhome,(ie;cab and chassis} or is the complete body on a chassis? There are so many ways for these companys to do things it's a little hard to give a good answer.
That being said my 40ft Bluebird has two cooling units inside that are two separate units controlled by one control but there are two compressors on the engine. The possibilities are endless

Quote:
would the same system of tests and diagnoisis for the vechile itself apply to the additional AC unit?
yes
Quote:
Do the coolant lines run all the way from the front of the bu
probably
Quote:
does anyone know how to get ahold of service manuals for these kinds of vechiles
There won't be a manual that covers the whole vehicle. Eldorado might be of help, but I wouldn't count on it.
A Ford E350 book will be the most help for anything that Ford built, The air conditioner, at least the rear one was installed by Eldorado but purchased from some aftermarket company. There should be a tag somewhere on the unit with the name of the manufacturer.

Come to think about it,I have hauled Eldorados out of the Salina plant and I think they are all cab and chassis units. Most of these things are custom built for each customer and depending on how large the order is and what is ordered they could come with any kind of equipment.


Not much help, but most of the equipment isn't really that unusual and a lot of parts are kind of generic.

Dick
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:12 PM   #3
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Re: Rear AC info?

it runs off the engine. you must use both units (dash and rear air) at the same time to prevent blow off of the AC system.

pump is like a standard vehicle, behind drivers door there is a the grated area at the lowest part of the bus. that is the ac coolers. normally found in the grille of a vehicle.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:33 PM   #4
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Re: Rear AC info?

If its like mine, (and I bet it is) Eldo started with a cab+chassis and tee'd into the orignal lines installed by Ford.
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Old 07-27-2011, 02:47 PM   #5
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Re: Rear AC info?

Hey everybody, thanks for all the replies; I'm really sorry it took so long to get back to you all, but things have been really hectic -- in the process of moving. Anyway, here goes...

somewhereinusa:

Yes the bus has a standard ford nose; I guess it sounds like everything is probably running off of one compressor, which I suppose is good. I actually wrote eldorado about the manuals, but I'm really not expecting to hear anything out of them...I had kind of wondered if maybe there weren't any proper manuals given the custom nature of the buses. I'll definately get ahold of an e350 service manual though.

Stuff:

Okay, so you're saying that both the rear AC and front ac should be going when I test the AC, right? Thanks for pointing out about the side grill; I was wondering if that was what it was.

sdwarf36:

Yup, it's a cab and chassis. Teed into the existing lines huh? Interesting...

Ascend:

Hey thanks for the input...though I'm feeling a bit sheepish now that I didn't mention that the bus has had a roof AC installed already... I guess the reason I want the other one working is that I don't plan on doing a full conversion...yet. I just don't have time to put in an integrated generator/battery setup. So when I'm on the road, I'm gonna need the vechile AC...though I can use the rooftop when I'm parked.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:52 PM   #6
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Did you ever fix your AC? my AC is doing the same thing 2001 e450.
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Old 08-07-2019, 04:28 PM   #7
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sounds like the system on my new to me 99 e450 shuttle bus gas v10.. hoping it just needs freon.. ever figure out yours Ritche??

Jon
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:38 PM   #8
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I added more Freon and it worked.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritche View Post
Did you ever fix your AC? my AC is doing the same thing 2001 e450.
Timmygyu has not been active on the board for over six years.

Don't hold your breath waiting for a reply
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Old 06-13-2020, 01:30 PM   #10
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Unhappy My Shortie 2012 Ford E-450 V-10 Has TWO compressors

I'm trying to fix one of my air conditioners and having a hard time finding the same compressor.
The front air wasn't working, but the back air is, and I figured out the front system has a huge leak by vacuuming it down. I was guessing I had two compressors and indeed there is one high on the engine near the hood, and one straight down, near the bottom.
I need to look for the high and low ports for the back air conditioning to possibly add refrigerant to the back since it's not real cold.
My biggest problem is finding a replacement compressor for the front, which has 6 grooves and part number Valeo 103-56282. I can find that compressor with 8 grooves but not 6.
I originally looked at the whole set including A/C orifice tube, O-rings, receiver drier/acccumulator, condenser, and compressor, but the ones that come up in Rock Auto have a different compressor.
Does anyone know a good, and not overpriced place to order such a set?
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Old 06-13-2020, 01:43 PM   #11
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this is the same compressor from what i can see..



https://www.acparts.com/product/new-...mpressor-4019/
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Old 07-21-2020, 04:53 PM   #12
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Progress, but not much progress

I managed to buy both compressors. I didn't intend to, but ordered the compressor for the rear thinking it was the front one. I made a bad guess the original Ford compressor, for the front, would be the compressor towards the top. When I finally got around to tracing the lines I was checking with the manifold gauge set I figured out the one I needed was on the bottom.
Since then I swapped out the condenser, which was easier than I expected. I swapped out the accumulator next. Last, and the one I dread, is to swap out the compressor that is near the bottom. While it's out I plan on trying to figure out which serpentine belt it is. Maybe it's a K081213HD like someone else had on a twin compressor Ford, maybe not.
Following changing out the compressor I will clean the lines as best I can using an air conditioner cleaning tool I bought for that, not use it on the condenser since this is one of those that I know is not supposed to be, change all the o-rings (came with the kit I bought), tighten, vacuum down, and check for leaks. I plan on adding oil with the glow chemical after it is leak tight, and then add the refrigerant.
It's over 90 degrees and wet out. All my repairs are in the great out doors.
I still claim I don't, "do" air conditioners.
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Old 07-21-2020, 07:29 PM   #13
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ha!! I have spent the last 2 days oputside in mid 90s heat modifying and fabbing parts for a "easy bolt on second compressor bracket".. I guess bolt on these days means buying an exopensive kit and then still having to make half the parts so it will work.. GRR!! and I do A/C.. next I have to move a power steering line so the "easy bolt on kit" compressor freon lines can be routed..
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Old 07-21-2020, 08:27 PM   #14
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Cadillac.... you of all people

With what you have told us/me about your experience with machines and your exploits of modifying stuff.... I would think you have known for a long time that "bolt on modifications" rarely ever "just" bolt on.

You also seem the sort of person to shy away from jankey poorly done installations of anything at anytime for any reason.

You are the kind of person I would love to have around when I am doing stuff just so I could hear you say "Are you sure you want to do it that way? Listen to this......."

I think my work would be better for it.

cheers, william
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Old 07-21-2020, 09:53 PM   #15
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Lol I’m so used to modifying easy bolt on stuff its a normal thing, although I think the part that irked me was the fact it a top notch kit and includes a part that can never have worked.. not to hijack this thread too much but a brace extending down the side to mount point on a dt360 block can never also work in a DT466 as the blocks are different lengths and shape in that area.. the kit was listed as for both.. the pulley and front covers in said engines are the same so that part worked as advertised well except for A belt clearanced too tight so that it slaps a bolt head seems like another oversight ..

Nevertheless you are right about anything bolt in.. all that stuff is bolt in after you finish machining it for the manufacturer..
if it were a cheap kit I’d likely have never thought twice about it.. if the tech support didn’t say “well we have lots of these out there it must be your engine ..” only for me to verify with 3 other peeps running the same engine that the turbo drain oil is in exactly the same spot on all..

I’m sure others nodded the brace or even threw It away over the years.. after all the AC would work without it , it is a vibration back brace so as long as engine vibration didn’t fracture the main brackets over time then some could be out there without it ..

Alas my brace is modded and mounted , now for the next challenge.
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Old 07-22-2020, 02:26 AM   #16
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Same Boat(ish)

I have a similar situation with my 96 Ford E350 SuperD, 7.5L Gas (460).
It has the side condenser with (3) 12" fans, and the rear evaporator. Both the Ford and bus systems run off the factory Ford compressor.
the AC has never blown cold. I took it to a "tech" today and he tested for leaks (none found), and then put the listed amount (almost 6 lbs.) of refrigerant into it. It started to cool down very slightly, but it never really got cold. The high side pressure was fairly high, and the low side pressure was relatively normal. He said it sounds like the drier may need changed.
Has anyone experienced anything like this? There is an "accumulator drier" engine side, and a "filter drier" at the condenser. Can they be tested, or do you just roll the dice and start replacing parts? Maybe there is something else, another potential suspect?

Thanks!
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Old 07-22-2020, 07:44 AM   #17
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the acumulator up by the engine firewall has a dessicant in it.. I rarely ever see those clog up.. the only time ive seen an issue is if the Ford FS-10 compressor is starting to "black-death"..


im assuming when the tech checked for leaks and before evacuating, he popped a line open to make sure the oil in the system is still clear and not becoming a darker grayish color.. (the beginning of ford compressor failure)..



the receiver / dryer is in the liquid line near the condensor or maybe even mounted right to it.. if the inlet pipe is good and warm and the outlet pipe (of the dryer itself, not the condensor) is cool then its partially blocked severely enough to affect cooling..


are all the ciondenser fans operating at full speed? are the coild free of debris?



do both evaps barely cool? ford has had issues with the air / mix doors on the dashboard systems that allow some heat to make its way into the air mix.. this will cause the dash air to not be very cold..



how high was the head pressure? what were the pipe temperatures in and out of the condenser?
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Old 07-22-2020, 12:57 PM   #18
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96 Ford E350 SuperD, 7.5L Gas Air Not Cold

My E450 is a 2012 and has two compressors, but it can be a difference in the year of the vehicle. I also have the condensers on the side of the bus.
The place that built the rest of a cutaway can do pretty much anything they want, so you may have a shared compressor. I doubt it.
I would recommend you pop the hood and confirm there is only one compressor. Mine had two compressors, one in the upper left, one straight down on the lower left of the engine. I understand the compressor can even be somewhere on the right side of the engine, all looking from the front.
What makes me suspicious is the added refrigerant not making a significant difference and the fact there are often two compressors, though I believe some Ford vans share the compressor front and back.
If you trace the refrigerant lines like I did you may find lines that head for some other place than the compressor you see from the top. It is terribly difficult to get a great view from top or bottom of the front. I look for the compressor clutch. I've still to locate the route the rear refrigerant lines take exactly even though I have seen where they both are on the interior under the driver's side cover where the speakers and lights are. I have to find them soon to attach the gauge manifold and probably add refrigerant.
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Old 07-22-2020, 01:48 PM   #19
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cadilackid -
Thank you for your response!

No, the tech did not check any lines. He basically put some vacuum on the system and made sure it held pressure. Then proceed to to re-charge it. It didn't seem like was very knowledgeable. Found him on Offer Up.

Where is the best place to open a line to check the oil?

The condenser fans seem to be working at normal speed. The receiver / drier is in fact located directly on the condenser. But, we didn't touch/check the line temps. The coils are good shape and are clean.

So, the rear evap never really changed temps. The front evap started out very warm, then as more freon was added it just slightly started to cool down. It was over 90* yesterday, so it was obvious right away that the air was cooler. The clutch was kicking on & off every couple of seconds. at first it only stayed on for 1-2 seconds. Then when the temp seemed to cool (slightly), it was staying on for 3-5 seconds at a time, but it never stayed on.
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Old 07-22-2020, 01:53 PM   #20
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Thank you GaryTheRock!

So, looking from the front, my compressor is located on the rightside just under the air box. I'll remove the air box and dog house again to double check that there isn't a second compressor.
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