Sport bus the Short bus

[brokedown]

I'm using this chart: http://acprocold.com/faq/r-134a-system-pressure-chart/

My infrared thermometer aimed at a plastic container IV the shade says it is 89 degrees outside.

I adjusted my rear system so that the high side is reading 270 and the low side is reading about 43.

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[cadillackid]

if you look at the inner rings of the gauges.. you'll see little numbers.. one of those rings will be R-134a.. those numbers are temperatures.. the blue gauge is the suction pressure and so you need the evaporation temperature of the freon.. its hard to get exact.. but you can take the temperature just past the expansion valve (often you have ot take the cover off the inside unit). and then take the temperature of the big pipe as it exits the evaporator.. avg the 2 numbers and its a good guess.. (should be done with engine RPM at 1000-1200 and fans on high..

then outside take the Inlet temperature of the condensor.. and the outlet temperature of the condensor and average those 2 numbers.. and those are the temperatures (inner ring numbers) you shoot for.. or close...

most typically your high side will be 150-200 PSI. and your low side will be 20-40 PSI.

the lower numbers seen when its cooler outside ( and cooler in the bus).. the higher numbers seen when its warmer..

I dont like to charge an A/C below 70 outside temp.. its tricky and easy to over-charge.. 80-90 is perfect outside tmep to work with.. I usually error on the slightly under-charged rather than over-charged.. unless I know im chargimng a system with a slow leak (never should do this!!!) .

when just checking a system.. let your system run for 5 minutes or so before determining its low or not.. it needs to circulate and take care of the initial high heat loads and initial warm up / cool down of the metals in the coils and get the oil flowing..

some tips about those gauges.. they have valves on the end of the hose and also on the body.. make sure all valves are closed and hoses are tight when you install the gauges..

you'll need to get a can tap that has a removeable or hose.. or no hose so you can use the manifold gauges to charge your system. (can will go on the yellow center hose).

open just the valves at the A/C fittings to visualize pressure but the manifolds should be closed. you'll see your respective pressures...

to charge, install a can onto the yellow hose and open its valve.. slowly crack open the BLUE low pressure manifold valve to add freon.. you'll see the blue gauge go up and may see freon in the gauge window. . you DONT want to blast it with liquid.. so if you see liquid in that window either turn your can right side up **OR** way i do it is to just crack open the blue valve.. and you'll notice that the hose gets cold..thats good it means you are evaporating the liquid from the gauges to a gas as it goes in..

charging can upside down gets you liquid that you can bleed in, charging right side up gets gas direct from can.. it will start out chargong fast with gas but as the can gets cold it will slow way down to where you think the can is empty.. but its not until its warm.

finish a can, be sure manifold valves are closed and add next can..

if you are really close to where you want to be in the middle of a can, close the Can valve... then open the blue valve to clear the yellow hose of any freon.. leave the can valve closed..

these long hoses tend to hold a bit of freon.. esp the red one as it may be liquid in there.. we need to clear that hose before you remove it.. so Close the red valve on the end of the hose (at the A/C fitting on the bus)...

the Can valve MUST BE CLOSED!!

now open the blue valve at the manifold.. and then slowly crack open the red valve and empty the red hose.. you'll know when its empty as the pressure on your red and blue gauges will go the same.. (your red valve was closed at the A/C fitting)..

what you just did was take the freon in the red hose and empty it right back into the A/C.. its an ounce or so max so wont cause an overcharge on a system that big.. and will prevent hand burns when putting your gauges away

close both manifold valves. and the blue A/C fitting valve (all valves whould be closed).. remove gauges and slowly take apart the hoses.. they will hiss theres a little freon left in the hoses..

hope I dont confuse you too much..
-Christopher

[brokedown]

In case it isn't obvious I'm mostly making it up as I go.

I'm not sure in Reading these dials right for the pressures for temperatures. For sure I have no idea what the evaporation temperature is of the refrigerant. The chart I find for the high pressure side send completely at odds with what I think the dial reads... The dial seems to suggest I need about 100 psi at 90 degrees, the chart says 250. Am I reading it wrong?


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[cadillackid]

90 degrees freon temperature is what that inner chart is.. so if your condesning refrigerant temp is 100. your gauge would read right about 125 psi... the chart you are reading is likely suggesting how hot it is outside..

so if you measured the pipe going into the condensor underneath (pretty hot).. and measured the pipe coming out of the condensor (should be warm but not hot). and took the average of the 2 numbers.. ie 150f going in and 100f coming out. average 125, youd expect to see a gauge of about 170...

charghing by low side is a little easier. as most often you are looking for low side pressures of 20-40. (sometimes a bit higher on a really hot day)... (after your sysyem runs for 5-10 minutes and starts to cool the inside down a bit).

your suction pipe should get pretty cold.

there are plenty of people out there that charge the A/C till the suction line is beer can cold and call it a day...
-Christopher

250 is a bit high for even a 90 degree day. on a 90 degree outside temp day you could see 250 if your condensor isnt running efficiently or if its a bit overloaded - ie dirty coils, not fully functional fans... but id likely expect to see more like 200-220.. its tough to use outside temperature and get a good charge..

maybe im too much a perfectionist when it comes to A/C.. lol..

[brokedown]

Well I messed with the front one some more and even after messing with pressures or doesn't want to keep running more than about 15 seconds. I'm going to call it dead until I can get somewhere long enough to fix it.

I burned my hands on the high pressure line so it might be a day or two before I'm ready to grab one of them again. Also the fitting on the high pressure line may be leaking.

Whatever I have driving to do!

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[cadillackid]

the high pressure line from the compressor is normally hot.. the one to think about is the one that comes FROM the condensor coil headed out to the indoor unit..

what pressures did you have on the front one? sounds like its eoither tripping on low or high pressure.. they will short cycle
-Christopher

[dan-fox]

Originally Posted by brokedown

That's our tandem kayak which hasn't been off the roof since Kansas....

Not a lot of call for kayaks in Kansas, one would think.

I got excited for a moment there; it looked like a hang glider if you squint.

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by dan-fox

Not a lot of call for kayaks in Kansas, one would think.

I got excited for a moment there; it looked like a hang glider if you squint.

Huh, when I squint I see Marilyn Monroe on the roof.

[brokedown]

Well this morning my other compressor decided it was done, and then there was none. I've been calling around all morning looking to see if anyone near here can help me out in the reasonably near future and it seems like I'm going to replace them myself.

I'm not sure if the replacement i did died because I did it wrong or if it died because it was cheap autozone crap... And if it was my fault, I don't really want to spend $900 on new Sanden compressors just to have them die in 2 months because I ruined them. I can get a pair of remans from Amazon for about $250, which is less than I paid for one at autozone.... Dang it!

[brokedown]

I just ordered a pair of compressors with next day delivery. I need to get a can valve, a bunch of refrigerant, and some compressor oil this evening. PNW_Steve is providing an area to work, a vacuum pump, and moral support.

[cadillackid]

Yeooow!! I will say on average the biggest killer of compressors is contaminents in the system .. receicer dryers should be changed when changing a compressor..

Next on the list is bad condenser cooling.. clogged coils, intermittent or bad relays, or bad fan motors..

Over charging and under/ over oiling is the biggest thing people do to them on their own.. I've never spent 900 on a compressor not even a new one. Remans by a good company are usually ususially pretty good. Sanden compressors are usually pretty tough cookies..
Christopher

[brokedown]

The $900 figure was the cost of 2 compressors + tax + shipping... That would be brutal for a single one!

[brokedown]

Ok some progress happened!

I replaced both compressors yesterday. I researched at length the amount of oil required and could not get a solid answer, so like a pro I guessed. Using my shiny new manifold gauges, we carefully added refrigerant and kept an eye on pressures and chilling, and determined there is something wrong with the rear unit. With just under 40 psi on the low side, we had good cold air but high side pressures would climb to 350 and hit the cutoff.

The front unit is pushing cold air with the high side around 220.

For now I have bled off pressure from the rear unit to keep the high side below 250, it doesn't seem to be chilling air but it won't accidentally grenade. For now we will just use the front until I am able to find a shop or something to help address the rear.

Also, I have a leaky fitting on the high pressure side of the rear system. I am leaving a coupler attached to keep it from draining but that obviously needs to be addressed next time it gets touched..




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[cadillackid]

Are the fans on the condensors running for both units? Sure sounds like dirty coils or bad fans on that rear. As I mentioned in the PM , 220 is not out of range for the front unit if it was a really hot day. Do disable your rear unit. No need to bleed off the Fresno just don't turn that unit on. Or unplug it's compressor..
do check the coils for dirt on the condensers .. too bad your not near Ohio or Florida or id jump in with ya to tackle it
Christopher

[brokedown]

It's not a really hot day, 92. I ran a spray nozzle on the radiators, diet cane out but I had already bled off the pressure from the rear. I cant least it in a condition where it could accidentally get turned on and cause a problem, that means for now I don't know if the house helped until I get my hands on more refrigerant..

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[cadillackid]

220 is not too far off for a 92 degree day esp since the bus was likely hot inside. spraying them down is a stop gap.. you need to drive east!. . it was only 57 and rain here in ohio today...

this was the picture inside my bus today..



-Christopher

[brokedown]

Honestly man I wish I could get the bus to you because your knowledge of these things is far beyond mine and I have had a combination of talking to "professionals" who seem to know even less than me and talking to shops who for whatever reason can't or won't touch the bus.

I have some semblance of working AC for the front unit. Next time I'm near a walmart I'll pick up another bag full of their cheap r134a ($4.88 per 12oz can vs $20 per can everywhere else) and see if I can bring that unit up to where it should be. I'm hoping to not need the rear unit for a while.

[brokedown]

Back on the road. Huge thanks to our new friends Steve and Angela. You guys rock!


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[cadillackid]

Yeaaay!!!! A rolling bus is a happy bus!!!!

[brokedown]

I wish this weren't only the case when falling off a mountain.

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