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Old 06-16-2017, 06:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Found a pic of the tranny mounts. They are the same on each side. Just your basic Volvo rubber hockey puck engine mount in between.




And do you know off hand where your engine mounts are located? Front, middle, rear? That can make a big difference in how the trans gets loaded.
Tango - I looked after you mentioned it.. my engine is Tri-mounted. there are 2 mounts at the rear of the engine going into the sides of the frame.. they look Stout with large bolts, then there is a cradle mount in front that goes across the bottom of the engine and then has a very llarge bolt in the center with a rubber mount that goes through the front frame support cross member. that looks like a 9/16 or 5/8 thread bolt..

so im thinking i should be fine?

-Christopher
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:40 AM   #22
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Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
an 8.3 with a 643's most costr effective way to improve is to regear the rear and turn up the smoke on the 8.3. you have the power and a good transmission you just need to lower the RPMs a bit..
-Christopher
Can I? I think I read that the 643 was good for 250hp or something hp. My build sheet says I have the 260hp variant of the ISC. The engine may be capable but is the tranny?

Second question part 1 ... How do I go about finding what rear ends are available? Since it's an RE bus I have a really tiny driveshaft. It's also coming from the wrong direction so the pumpkin looks funny.

Part 2 ... Is there a way to calculate UPHILL speed? I currently have 1:1 final tranny, 4.44 rear, 11R22.5 tires, and 2500 rpms. I don't remember the exact number but it equals near enough to 65mph top speed. Normally I stick at 60 and call it good. On the 8~9% grades, I'll drop from 65 to 38mph and into 3rd gear. If I change the rear to a 2.86 (totally made up number) I'll be able to do 157mph downhill but what would the uphill speed be?

Component Number Description
01-594 MT643/647/653
10-594 MT643/653
14-694 MT643 2200 3000
16-1265 643 2400 RM/FL/L3-4
17-508 6881461 GOVERNOR ASSY
21-738 TC378
22-552 MT643 16T SPEEDO (FOR MAG
23-894 MT643 W/O SHIPPING SACKS
37-583 5.1 DEEP W/1ST CL FD TUBE

I have no idea what this governor assembly is or if it's adjustable.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:46 AM   #23
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if you are losing uphill speed then you would likely lose speed worse on long grades.. 8-9% grade is pretty tough grade to maintain high speed on.. I look at a build that takes care comfortably of 90% of my driving characteristics.. ie yes slowing down on a grade sucks but if im on a road trip and im only on a grade like that once ever yday or couple days then id deal with the slow uphill speeds..

for some reason I thought the 643 was good for 300+ HP.. makes me wonder if there were different variants of it.. this is great info.
-Christopher
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
if you are losing uphill speed then you would likely lose speed worse on long grades.. 8-9% grade is pretty tough grade to maintain high speed on.. I look at a build that takes care comfortably of 90% of my driving characteristics.. ie yes slowing down on a grade sucks but if im on a road trip and im only on a grade like that once ever yday or couple days then id deal with the slow uphill speeds..
I fully agree but if I do something stupid (i.e. 4.44 to 1.44) then what is my uphill speed? From 38 mph to 35mph done and done; let's do this!! But from 38mph to 3mph, ummmm .... don't think so.

Quote:
for some reason I thought the 643 was good for 300+ HP.. makes me wonder if there were different variants of it.. this is great info.
-Christopher
I dunno; could be. Right now I'm looking for info on the governor. Can't find squat. I'll see if I can't find something on hp.
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Old 06-16-2017, 08:58 AM   #25
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...Mei-dw&cad=rja

This says 250 even tho my engine is 260.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sbrP9VlmYajS3Q

This one says 235-275hp. Also says 2200-3000 rpm. I've not gone above 2700. I try to make sure it doesn't go above 2500.
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:07 AM   #26
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The double engine mounts should prevent the engine from trying to rotate which should lessen any forces on the tranny. And from what I understand, the new gen Allies have cases that were significantly strengthened over the older units. I could have probably gotten away with just moving my motor mounts back to the center (balance) position, but I figured what the heck...why not bolt it all down with rubber pads.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:25 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
an 8.3 with a 643's most costr effective way to improve is to regear the rear and turn up the smoke on the 8.3. you have the power and a good transmission you just need to lower the RPMs a bit..
-Christopher
lol in the skoolie world complaining about an 8.3 with a 643 is SOOOO a first world problem!
My 195hp DT466 with 643 and 4.44 rear rides out pretty nice. Sure it tops out at 63mph, but that's alright. Pulls like a mule!
Could probably fit larger tires and get it to 65 mph, but this thing will forever be cruising the slow lanes, even with a NICE powertrain.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:47 AM   #28
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Take advantage of the fact that people expect buses to be slow. Don't disappoint them.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:57 AM   #29
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lol in the skoolie world complaining about an 8.3 with a 643 is SOOOO a first world problem!
My 195hp DT466 with 643 and 4.44 rear rides out pretty nice. Sure it tops out at 63mph, but that's alright. Pulls like a mule!
Could probably fit larger tires and get it to 65 mph, but this thing will forever be cruising the slow lanes, even with a NICE powertrain.
My problem with it is NOT top speed tho I will admit I'm jealous of the coach buses blowing by at 80mph. My "problem" with it is staying power. If I could give up 65mph on level ground for a 55mph bus uphill, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

With a good run at the grade, I'll drop to 3rd and 38mph up a hill. If there's a stoplight at the bottom of the hill, I'm lucky if I can hit 25mph.
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:59 AM   #30
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The Aim in my build is for a bus that shifts like it supposed to, efficiency, a Temp gauge that stays left of center on the highway, cool-factor (new electronic trany means another digital screen!!)... and the ability to cruise through cities in traffic..
-Christopher
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango View Post
The double engine mounts should prevent the engine from trying to rotate which should lessen any forces on the tranny. And from what I understand, the new gen Allies have cases that were significantly strengthened over the older units. I could have probably gotten away with just moving my motor mounts back to the center (balance) position, but I figured what the heck...why not bolt it all down with rubber pads.
when I let the tranny jack down, the engine didnt even Move hardly at all.. the bus suspension move a tiny bit..

Oh I better get the thread updated with progress and pics.. the Tranny is Bolted in!!!
-Christopher
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:04 PM   #32
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Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
Oh I better get the thread updated with progress and pics.. the Tranny is Bolted in!!!
-Christopher
Damn right you better
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
The Aim in my build is for a bus that shifts like it supposed to, efficiency, a Temp gauge that stays left of center on the highway, cool-factor (new electronic trany means another digital screen!!)... and the ability to cruise through cities in traffic..
-Christopher
I want THAT!
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:37 PM   #34
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I want THAT!
I think I have most of that. Not sure what "cruise thru city traffic" implies. My tranny temp gauge (almost) worries me. It comes off the left needle and moves otherwise I would seriously worry. My gauge starts at 100. I don't think I've seen it above 125. Engine temp gauge reads just left of center. I've seen it go as high as just right of center on a climb. Don't remember the gauge numbers. Just left of center is what the bus depot guys said it should be.
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Old 06-17-2017, 08:30 AM   #35
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We Want Pix!!!
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:43 PM   #36
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Here we go!!! ive been busy with work like crazy.. trying to release a new software cloud product and build a school bus at the same time.. as well as deal with a **temporary** roomate who is using me badly.. has made for me being behind on my updates of this thread!.


I knew I was going to need some TOOLS!! to get the job done... Thanks to ECCB for the tip on the HF 20 ton bottle jacks.. these things ROCK! and they dont lose pressure overnight either..

First stop!



Sercond stop I was going to need an engine hoist to be able to move the transmission around.. so I booked a "portable engine lift" via my local sunbelt rentals and off to get it I went.. by the time the paperwork was ready, it was in the bed of my Trusty old (new) Silverado.. I got home and HOLY CRAP.. portable??? really?? yeah it weighs more than me.. (im 140 lbs)... well after all what good would a hoist be if it couldnt hoist itself in and out of the truck! so I rigged it up to do just that!..

this pic was later.. I deleted the original by accident.. grrr.. anyway you see the shiny tranny in this one.



Now I needed to get the old transmission out of the Bus and somehow on the ground..
the first part was easy... i got out my trusty HF tranny jack.. (Ok my original was red and beat form years of hotrodding.. I loaned it to a friend a year ago who seemed to be MIA when I wanted ot get it back.. so I got a new one.... so if anyone needs a tranny jack.. yeah I got a newer one..



then i just started taking out all the bolts I could find around the tranny.. and unplugging wires.. I drained out about 5 gallons of nice red fluid.. it reallty didnt look like the fluid you would expect from a Defunct transmission... it was nice clear and pretty.. all except the very bottom of the pan which is expected..

put the jack under it.. and I strapped it to the jack with an 800 lb ratchet strap so that it wouldnt go anywhere.. then I took out the converter bolts.. I used a BIG screwdriver to spin the engine a couple gear teeth at a time.. and found that on the front (toward front of bus), about halfway up is an access port for a ratchet to go in and unscrew the nuts on the torque converter.. I put some axle grease on the inside of the socket so that way the nut wouldnt fall out when I too kthe socket out of the hole. (sorry the access port pic is missing!..

here is the jack under the trans, ready to get it outta here.


Notice the second strap to the left.. yeah I'll tell you about that one in a bit.. the challenges of working under a LOW suspension Bus...!!

to help with getting the bell bolts loose there is a plate in the floor that gives you access to the top bell bolts.. I took these out LAST.. in case all H*LL broke loose the tranny would fall to the ground harmlessly with me not under it..



more to come!
-Christopher
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Old 06-18-2017, 05:52 PM   #37
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Wow. Looks like you have your hands full there. Good luck!

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Old 06-18-2017, 06:03 PM   #38
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Keep up the great work, bro!
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:03 PM   #39
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I set up a backup strap on the transmission as even strapped to the jack I was worried it would fall out of the bus frame and something would break.. so I strapped it in the front to the bus frame.. this way I also knew that the front wouldnt tip forward.. i wanted the converter to come out WITH the trans and not stay up in the engine... this part is important as a 50 lb torque converter going rogue can create big time injury.. as well as damage the flexplate and spill LOTS of fluid on the ground..

after all the bolts were out I horsed and pulled until kablam! it pulled away from the bell, things shook and wobbled but nothing fell and I quickly lowered the tranny jack only to realize what i knew already and that is that it was NOT gonna slide out from under the bus on the jack..

an interesting thing is this Ring.. its an extender ring for the torque converter.. it has studs and is bolted to the flexplate.. and the normal converter bolts go into this ring.. YES!! you BETTER use LocTite when putting the inside bolts in.. if you lost one of these you have to pull the transmission to replace it...




so I lifted the transmission with a couple ratchet straps.. big ones.. and then I pulled the jack out from underneath.. so the transmission was supported by set ratchet straps.. the trans jack now went under the parking brake drum where i lifted it as a point higher on the trans.. and disconnected the rear ratchet strap. then I dropped the rear to the ground... next I took the trans jack to the front where I tried to lift the trans via the bell... no dice.. too big.. grabbed the car jack, and lifted the trans at the bell and went up top and released the ratchet strap from up above... then I could go safely from the front of the bus and release the car jack which let the trans to the ground!!!..



hello 20 ton bottle jack.. lifted the rear left ocrner of the bus a few inches.. which caused the air suspension to go flat on the right side.. nevertheless I dragged yanked and kicked and screamed at the old trans till it was out from under the bus!!.

into the silverado and home where I could have it to use for reference.. and to remove parts I wanted to transfer to the new transmission.



-Christopher
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:05 PM   #40
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next time you need an engine lift, I have one in my other garage in pieces
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