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Old 10-28-2018, 09:54 AM   #421
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Nice Tweaks!!!
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:01 AM   #422
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Nice Tweaks!!!



I like being able to eliminate custom circuitry... Less parts == less to break.


i can now get rid of that circuit I designed last summer that you called VooDoo lol.. can go straight from the TCM to the ECM without the dakotas box and without that resistor / capacitor circuit..



-Christopher
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:10 AM   #423
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I like being able to eliminate custom circuitry... Less parts == less to break.


i can now get rid of that circuit I designed last summer that you called VooDoo lol.. can go straight from the TCM to the ECM without the dakotas box and without that resistor / capacitor circuit..



-Christopher
Does this finally solve the problem you were trying to open a NavKal service ticket for?
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:23 AM   #424
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Does this finally solve the problem you were trying to open a NavKal service ticket for?

yeah it does.. and a whole lot of other things too.. I finally got a NavKal service ticket open.. twice as they sent me the wrong file first.. so i got a second file.. both files were XML formatted and had the hash values in them.. so i asked for the 3rd, an original.. and a 4th file for a manual trans.



all im going to say is when you have 4 files all with correct Hashes.. well you can do the match.. the sky is the limit at that point... esp when you toss the requested info at a rig designed for Crypto-mining... (and a little code of course).
-Christopher
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Old 10-28-2018, 06:52 PM   #425
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yeah it does.. and a whole lot of other things too.. I finally got a NavKal service ticket open.. twice as they sent me the wrong file first.. so i got a second file.. both files were XML formatted and had the hash values in them.. so i asked for the 3rd, an original.. and a 4th file for a manual trans.



all im going to say is when you have 4 files all with correct Hashes.. well you can do the match.. the sky is the limit at that point... esp when you toss the requested info at a rig designed for Crypto-mining... (and a little code of course).
-Christopher
That jet-engine 'whooshing' sound was your second paragraph going right over my head at Mach 2......but I'm glad you finally got what you needed to fix your issue. Perseverance pays off.
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:02 PM   #426
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Does that mean you can tell my bus to take the 40 pulse per revolution speed signal instead of drilling the brake drum?
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Old 10-28-2018, 10:18 PM   #427
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Yeah we turn on allison MD and measure the circumference of your tires so we can calc the number of pulses per mile, and enter that into your ECM. Then we shoukd be able to ground the minus side of your VSS connector and wire the plus side to the VSS wire from your harness. If yiu got a tuneable TCM from jason we can program it with correct value also.

Theoreticaly we could miltiply the existing pulses per mile value by 2.25 if its accurate now.. saves measuring the tires
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Old 03-27-2019, 08:03 PM   #428
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been a bit since i updated,, lotsa miles, lotsa trips.. and I **FINALLY** solved the no-downshifts on cruise control issue..



it seems i wasnt the only one running allison 1000 or 2000 transmissions that would lug the engine wayyyyy down before downshifting in cruise-control mode..



ultimately a few pages back you all will note the J1939 data that I posted..



I finally tried to flash my ECM to a later VIN number and found it would crash during the procedure, brick the computer, and id reload from scratch,..


I was damn determined to figure out what the deal is..



so I ordered a "new" ECM on Flea-bay from a 2004 T-444E. the new ECM arrived, I plugged it in and damn the thing would start the engine but the speedometer just read 100 MPH... so I plugged in the laptop and found that I couldnt flash any parameters without getting an error # 8, cannot reprogram..



booted up NavKal and tried to Flash it blank (I have a valid NavKal subscription so i can download the latest firmware from Navistar and re-flash any ECM).. no -go...



write the seller on ebay and of course his reponse was "we pulled it out of a working truck, but the WARN light was on.. some guy tried to plug his computer in and didnt have a clue.. so we parted out the truck.. someone wanted the engine anyway..."... great..



well why not.. I pay $$$ for that navistar subscription.. I called navistar and said "i have this error 8.. and wierd speedo stuff".. he remoted into his computer, loaded servicemaxx into his "god mode" and still couldnt flash it.. then he remembered a bug in their code that if the speed sensor inoput was set to J1939 it bricks the ECM because the speed goes to 100 in absence of a valid J1939 speed sensor.. so if someone changes that setting by accident.. the WARN light comes on and the speedo pegs out..



there is no way to change it because of the built in "safety" that says you cant reprogram a truck that is still moving.....


he read off an email to me that stated the customer must send the ECM to navistar and Tier-III engineering puts it in their system and can re-flash it..



so i asked if simply put it was looking for a J1939 message that says '0 MPH'.. "maybe?? im not the one who wrote that email... sounds possible?"


so I went to work!.


IMG_0333.jpg


the J1939 Spec states that vehicle speed is sent in PGN-65265.. this PGN sends 8 characters.. or 8 sets of 2 Hex "digits" in 8 bit.. bytes 2 and 3 are vehicle speed...



Screen Shot 2019-03-27 at 8.44.32 PM.jpg






you send FF for anything you dont want to support..



so I decided I would send F1 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF
which tells the computer im sendinfg the data to that my cruise is turned off and my truck is going 0 MPH..



so now next hurdle is what do i want my identity to be on the network.. on J1939 each module or computer has an identity.. and you claim your identity..



I surmised since my transmission is identity 3 and sends through this datas already.. (spoeed still reads 100).. that the engine ignores data from address 3.. and besides the tranny layed claims to it..



address 1 is the main engine computer..



so I can be anything else.. but really I need to figiure out what kinds of things can send vehicle speed back to the engine..



we ruled out the tranny.. ABS modules? yep they can.. and I scoured the internet and found that Navistar either told venord to make their ABS modules 11 or 17.. meaning thats the Address they claim..



so I fired up my J1939 injector / simulator and set up as address 17 and sent the above data through... nope!! nada nothing!!.. I reset and claimed address 11.. as soon as I set the claim I noticed my Servicemaxx software on one of. the laptops instantly displayed that an ABS controller had come online!! at address 11.. I sent that data through once and my speedo blippeed downward for a few 10ths of a second.... yes I knew I had the right data.. now to make it repeatable..



IMG_0340.jpg


reading the Spec I posted above you can see that the Parameter Group we are using is supposed to be repeated every 100 milliseconds.. or 10 times / second... so I set my simulator up to send it 10X and off it went.. and my speedo dropped to 0, the WARN light went dark and all DTC's cleared..



essentially my engine computer thought a real ABS controller was sending data to it.. and says "Ok cool!"..


I reprogrammed the parameter to the correct value.. "hardwire OSS" yeah it saved perfectly... then I reloaded all the latest greatest software into it from navistar....



plugged everybody in ..took a ride down the highway.. set cruise control.. and low and behold my allison Now downshifts properly on electronic cruise!!!.. go up a hill..engine lugs... speed drops 2 MPH and bam down a gear we go!! climb a steeper hill..bus starts to slow down... bam down to 4... just like clockwork...



the cruise still seems to fuel the engine a bit slow.. but i learned there are new throttle maps for that.. i just gotta set one up and play..





yeah!!!! Cheap ECM.. guys that have no clue.. and no $$$ soent with navistar.. almost 2 year old issue solved!!!


oh I also noticed the engine runs smoother and quieter with the new ECM... so if you have an older T-444E, you may want to look into a newer ECM for it..



Part number for the lates is 1833558C3. but they are hard to find... the nearly latest is 1833558C2..





took a 200 mile roadtrip yesterday.. and busted a dam,n idler pulley... luckily just for the Transair.. the belt layed itself right across the engine fan... since i have a horton clutch my fan was easily stopped by the belt as it was just free-wheeling on a 45 degree day..





we had a Blast school bus Junk-yarding!!!!





56157922_10211733374724648_6677733010571264000_o.jpg

Photo credit for this last one is Jim Ross.



new idler pulley is on order and ill have my A/C fixed before I ever think about turning it on..



-Christopher




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Old 03-27-2019, 08:55 PM   #429
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Mad computer skills there Christopher!


I'm an OK shade tree mechanic but some of you guys here on Skoolie make me feel seriously unworthy.
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:23 PM   #430
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Mad computer skills there Christopher!


I'm an OK shade tree mechanic but some of you guys here on Skoolie make me feel seriously unworthy.
Nah!! Never feel unworthy ! This is a place to share and learn. I post this stuff in hopes someone may someday fix an issue they fought or even pick up a buzzword or two so a seedy mechanic doesn’t take advantage..

There’s a ton of different skill sets here on this forum .. and there are many who have never picked up a hammer but have the passion and desire to make their conversion work.. all have a place and are welcome in my book.
Christopher
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Old 03-27-2019, 09:53 PM   #431
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...but some of you guys here on Skoolie make me feel seriously unworthy.

They do, don't they?

Hell, I was thrilled when I got my seats out and the bus still cranked.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:28 PM   #432
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Wow....hacked the ECM *AND* git to visit a bus junk yard???

Now *that's* an awesome day.

All I did was drive from Tennessee to Alabama! Lolol

BTW, bus is running great, but I really want to get that EFRC for the 230HP...still a little piggy on the hills...

John
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Old 03-28-2019, 05:04 AM   #433
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John I found the whole list, did you try dropping to 3 sooner than the trans does on its own? We need to get you a pyro , fueling heavy and lugging down makes for some real hot fire !

I did the ECM hacking on the weekend and junkyard was ties.. it takes hours of reading over and running scripts across the captured Data.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:33 AM   #434
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Jesus, you rock Chris.
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:40 AM   #435
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Your idler pulley went out again?
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:29 AM   #436
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Your idler pulley went out again?

nope a different one... the last one I havent changed!



my Air-Conditioner has a V-belt drive that is a separate pulley which was bolted onto the front of the engine pulley.. it has an idler on its tensioner.. thats the one that died..



from what i can tell it was OEM original.. i got lucky and found it under the hood as Trans/AIR sells a few different idlers.. this one had an obsolete part number so Transair had a newer model..



luckily the V-belt popped forward and didnt tangle with the serp system.. and my fan just freewheels with a completely disengaged clutch.. the belt went in the fan and just stopped it ..no damage done..



my engine fan wouldnt be turning on when its 45 degrees outside and i certainly dont need the Air-Conditioner right now..



-Christopher
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:37 AM   #437
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John I found the whole list, did you try dropping to 3 sooner than the trans does on its own? We need to get you a pyro , fueling heavy and lugging down makes for some real hot fire !

I did the ECM hacking on the weekend and junkyard was ties.. it takes hours of reading over and running scripts across the captured Data.
I did, and it does help a *little*, but still slows down pretty good on the bigger grades...
I could look into the Pyro and do that. Does it go before or after the turbo? If before, how do I make sure I don't get any metal shavings stuck in the manifold and crater the turbo? That's a scary thought...

John
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:07 AM   #438
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the best place is before the turbo.. there are a couple ways.. some people if its reachable drill up from the bottom.. if you must put the probe in the top flat spot of manifold between engine and turbo.. you can drill through a shop-vac-attachment.. meaning you make a bit bigger hole in a shop vac attachment at the bottom.. little rubber p[ad around the bottom hole which sits on the manifold and you drill down through the top.,. you want the bottom hole in the attachment bigger so as the drill goes down, shavings come up and get sucked away into the tube.. as you break through the filings are sucked up and out.. some leave the engine idle.. the back pressure tends to push the filings out of the hole..

a couple filings going into a turbo at idle speed wont damage the turbine.. but you dont want a whole bunch obviously..



you will also want the shop vac hose on when you tap.. when i did mine I would go in a turn, back out, go in a turn, back out so i was always sucking filings out of my tap.



some of the DT466s have plugs in the manifold (if you can get one out).. that you could clean-tap and put your probe in.. these would give you reading of the closest cylinder.. which is good enough for ballparking..



my pyro on my V-8 is in my driver side manifold. so I dont see all my cylinders however. it gives me a good idea.. and im not out to push things to where im at the exact threshold all the time.. once I see things climbing I know im probably lugging too much and I drop a gear or back out of the throttle..



im not sure if the manifold on the 466E has the plugs in it or not. I think those are an early thing.. my DT360 manifold has what looks like a pipe plug in one end.. figure thats where I'll pyro mine..



whether or not you need a Pyro is up to question.. however when we run the HP ratings up to settings on the ECM that had different hardware from the factory we dont have the safety of IH engineering knowing that their stock configuration wouldnt over-temp.. so for instance if the higher HP rated engines had bigger turbos. that spooled up later.. or they fuel heavier in the low RPM bands and run smaller turbos that spool higher at lower RPMs and back the curve off later, that affects the EGTs..



running EGTs off the scale for short periods of time generally wont blow things up.. as it takes awhile for pistons to heat soak, pistons are getting exposed to cool air on the intake stroke, and the like.. its a good idea just to know where you stand..



with my hardware config on my engine. I occasionally breach 1200 on a long hill pull (1250 all day is safe.. 1400 for a minute or 2 is OK but longer its time to get outta the jets).. I tend to back outta the jets to make sure I stay just below 1200.. at that point im running my revs up to spool the turbo and blow more air in..



now when i put my new injectors in that have a heavier fuel curve.. I'll likely back my ECM program down a bit as im guessing ill be fueling too heavy for the turbo.. I'll probably wheel my turbo too which will help..



lower RPM lugging is the Hardest on a diesel.. fueling heavy and not moving the pistons is where you will watch the EGT;'s sail up quickly...



compressing gasses makes them hotter, expanding gasses cools them down.. burning fuel makes heat.. in a higher rev, your fuel burns and piston moves faster so the gasses expand as they burn. and the temperature doesnt rise as fast in the cylinder..



when you are lugging, you are still burning the fuel but the explosion has nowhere to go.. so the gasses created by the explosion are getting compressed or barely expanded esp at first.. the temp in that hole is HOT!..



-Christopher
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Old 03-28-2019, 11:13 AM   #439
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I still want to be your apprentice.
Wish I could afford the tools you got...nice sleuthing on the ECM
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Old 03-28-2019, 12:32 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
been a bit since i updated,, lotsa miles, lotsa trips.. and I **FINALLY** solved the no-downshifts on cruise control issue..



it seems i wasnt the only one running allison 1000 or 2000 transmissions that would lug the engine wayyyyy down before downshifting in cruise-control mode..



ultimately a few pages back you all will note the J1939 data that I posted..



I finally tried to flash my ECM to a later VIN number and found it would crash during the procedure, brick the computer, and id reload from scratch,..


I was damn determined to figure out what the deal is..



so I ordered a "new" ECM on Flea-bay from a 2004 T-444E. the new ECM arrived, I plugged it in and damn the thing would start the engine but the speedometer just read 100 MPH... so I plugged in the laptop and found that I couldnt flash any parameters without getting an error # 8, cannot reprogram..



booted up NavKal and tried to Flash it blank (I have a valid NavKal subscription so i can download the latest firmware from Navistar and re-flash any ECM).. no -go...



write the seller on ebay and of course his reponse was "we pulled it out of a working truck, but the WARN light was on.. some guy tried to plug his computer in and didnt have a clue.. so we parted out the truck.. someone wanted the engine anyway..."... great..



well why not.. I pay $$$ for that navistar subscription.. I called navistar and said "i have this error 8.. and wierd speedo stuff".. he remoted into his computer, loaded servicemaxx into his "god mode" and still couldnt flash it.. then he remembered a bug in their code that if the speed sensor inoput was set to J1939 it bricks the ECM because the speed goes to 100 in absence of a valid J1939 speed sensor.. so if someone changes that setting by accident.. the WARN light comes on and the speedo pegs out..



there is no way to change it because of the built in "safety" that says you cant reprogram a truck that is still moving.....


he read off an email to me that stated the customer must send the ECM to navistar and Tier-III engineering puts it in their system and can re-flash it..



so i asked if simply put it was looking for a J1939 message that says '0 MPH'.. "maybe?? im not the one who wrote that email... sounds possible?"


so I went to work!.


Attachment 31211


the J1939 Spec states that vehicle speed is sent in PGN-65265.. this PGN sends 8 characters.. or 8 sets of 2 Hex "digits" in 8 bit.. bytes 2 and 3 are vehicle speed...



Attachment 31212






you send FF for anything you dont want to support..



so I decided I would send F1 00 00 00 00 00 00 FF
which tells the computer im sendinfg the data to that my cruise is turned off and my truck is going 0 MPH..



so now next hurdle is what do i want my identity to be on the network.. on J1939 each module or computer has an identity.. and you claim your identity..



I surmised since my transmission is identity 3 and sends through this datas already.. (spoeed still reads 100).. that the engine ignores data from address 3.. and besides the tranny layed claims to it..



address 1 is the main engine computer..



so I can be anything else.. but really I need to figiure out what kinds of things can send vehicle speed back to the engine..



we ruled out the tranny.. ABS modules? yep they can.. and I scoured the internet and found that Navistar either told venord to make their ABS modules 11 or 17.. meaning thats the Address they claim..



so I fired up my J1939 injector / simulator and set up as address 17 and sent the above data through... nope!! nada nothing!!.. I reset and claimed address 11.. as soon as I set the claim I noticed my Servicemaxx software on one of. the laptops instantly displayed that an ABS controller had come online!! at address 11.. I sent that data through once and my speedo blippeed downward for a few 10ths of a second.... yes I knew I had the right data.. now to make it repeatable..



Attachment 31213


reading the Spec I posted above you can see that the Parameter Group we are using is supposed to be repeated every 100 milliseconds.. or 10 times / second... so I set my simulator up to send it 10X and off it went.. and my speedo dropped to 0, the WARN light went dark and all DTC's cleared..



essentially my engine computer thought a real ABS controller was sending data to it.. and says "Ok cool!"..


I reprogrammed the parameter to the correct value.. "hardwire OSS" yeah it saved perfectly... then I reloaded all the latest greatest software into it from navistar....



plugged everybody in ..took a ride down the highway.. set cruise control.. and low and behold my allison Now downshifts properly on electronic cruise!!!.. go up a hill..engine lugs... speed drops 2 MPH and bam down a gear we go!! climb a steeper hill..bus starts to slow down... bam down to 4... just like clockwork...



the cruise still seems to fuel the engine a bit slow.. but i learned there are new throttle maps for that.. i just gotta set one up and play..





yeah!!!! Cheap ECM.. guys that have no clue.. and no $$$ soent with navistar.. almost 2 year old issue solved!!!


oh I also noticed the engine runs smoother and quieter with the new ECM... so if you have an older T-444E, you may want to look into a newer ECM for it..



Part number for the lates is 1833558C3. but they are hard to find... the nearly latest is 1833558C2..





took a 200 mile roadtrip yesterday.. and busted a dam,n idler pulley... luckily just for the Transair.. the belt layed itself right across the engine fan... since i have a horton clutch my fan was easily stopped by the belt as it was just free-wheeling on a 45 degree day..





we had a Blast school bus Junk-yarding!!!!





Attachment 31214

Photo credit for this last one is Jim Ross.



new idler pulley is on order and ill have my A/C fixed before I ever think about turning it on..



-Christopher




What junk yard is that? I might need some Thomas CC switches at some point soon
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