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Old 06-30-2017, 02:18 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Did I accidentally reset the language here somehow???

You guys are talkin WAAAY over my head.
They lost me somewhere along the way as well.

And while I have just a bare inkling about what they are talking about I like the fact that someone on here really knows something about the electronics on the newer buses.

As the years go by there will be fewer and fewer all mechanical buses left on the road. All of us who know how to work on them will be very appreciative to those you will be able to hold our hands as we wade through the murky depths of VSS, TCM, ECM, 555, and who knows what else!

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Old 06-30-2017, 07:07 AM   #122
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555 is actually old.. it was of course created as a device for use in big projects.. but it ended up becoming the Standard and sometimes the initiation of the Geek-hobby-electronics .. to build a little circuit that made an LED flash off and on as a kid was a cool thing..

electronics - there is a real trend happening with vehicle electronics which is likely goingto render the independent shop useless in the next coming years..

allison has already started with it in that they have made it nearly impossible for anyone but an allison dealer to reprogram a TCM (Transmission control Module).. we are starting to see more and more of it in consumer vehicles in that aftermarket devices are rendered more and more useless.. obviously its done in the name of keeping people from modding their vehicles.. (so they say). but reality is at some point all that will happen is the manufacturers will fail to license the software to anyone but a dealer.. without the software its nearly impossible to troubleshoot complex issues..

lets take even my build here... how much have the various electronic and software testing tools played a part? in a project that all in all should be mainly a mechanical transmission swap, and here i am knee deep into the electronics..

granted.. there ARE mechanical solutions to my issues as well.. but they would involve custom fabricated tone wheel driveshaft collars and the like...

should the electronic route fail.. then we have to revert to crazy one-off systems..
alas where my mind does go.. to take the TCM fed signal and turn it mechanical and then make it electronic again.. really?? yeah it can be done...

SPEEDBOX™ GPS/VSS to Mechanical Drive Speed Converter

makes the TCM signal and turns into a mechanical spinning speedo cable...

yep and then you can turn the cable into electronic... ahh yes wierd huh?
Mechanical Speedometer Cable Adaptors

alas likely ive solved this one electronically... but i COULD go this route if i had to..
-Christopher
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:18 AM   #123
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555 is actually old.. it was of course created as a device for use in big projects.. but it ended up becoming the Standard and sometimes the initiation of the Geek-hobby-electronics .. to build a little circuit that made an LED flash off and on as a kid was a cool thing..

Yup the 555 dates back to when "Radio Shack" ment more than a store. Bread boards were not in a bakery and tie wire was not just for fencing lol😂

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Old 06-30-2017, 07:30 AM   #124
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totally.. the days of going to radio shack and browsing the 1000s of little drawers of electronic bits to build stuff! lots of little 'ARCHER' bubble packs in my history!

fortunately in columbus ohio 'Micro-Center' and 'Electronic Supply corp' have really taken to the hobby electronics crowd .. and with the popularity of raspberry PI and Arduino type devices.. (arguably started the trend was Basic stamp).. have brought back the component level building and breadboarding once again..
-Christopher
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:48 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
time to grab the transmission scan tool and connect it.. because if I go over 140 degrees F trans temp im screwed.. it enables the learning mode.. and that we dont want to happen till we want to teach it.. plus i needed to monitor the Output shaft speed on the trans.. the other piece of making this work is making sure that while my dash can see the signal so can the transmission!.
How is it you have all these scan tools?

Quote:
by george i think i got it!!! I still set a code occasionally when I restart the truck.. the values of these resistors saeem awfully high so i may adjust them a bit. with Pots and see if i can come up with something thats not on the edge literally... nevertheless I came up with the schematic below that so far works on all accounts.
YOu're a smart kid so I suspect you've already tried but I gotta ask... it's not something you can take the lid off of and see/measure the resistors? Proprietary so not likely to find the values online I reckon.

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I MAY have to put a 555 timer circuit in for when I first start the bus until the ECM and TCM boot fully before letting the VSS signal apply...

-Christopher
It's been a long while since ...

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Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
One thing..... I had you pegged as being quite a bit younger than I am until you made that comment. I don't think anyone under 45 know what a 555 is.....
Damn it, I made the cut.

I'd go a little further tho. Maybe 40 or even late 30s depending on how geeky and old-school the person is. FYI, Bose (the speaker people) were using thru-hole technology into the 2000s. Don't know if they still are or not.

And I thought you were mechanical and here you are going all electronic on us.

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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
and of course there are alot newer things to use than a 555.. but really its super simple and easy to use.. for what I need it for its perfect.. or i could just buy something like this
I didn't look at your link but is anything new going to be as robust? A 555 chip doesn't give two shits about static, vibration, weather, etc.

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i can feel it now!! i can taste that bus ride now!! Hot summer night road trips in the skoolie!! my favorite times to travel!.

-Christopher
I like ya but you are still a sick puppy. Just thought you should know.

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Originally Posted by Tootalltechie View Post
The 555 is the cats meow. I use to use them for everything.
Welcome to the geezer club. Put your teeth over there and have a jello.

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Originally Posted by Tango View Post
Did I accidentally reset the language here somehow???
A 555 timer is an IC (Integrated Circuit) from back in the '80s and earlier. It is used as a "delay". Think old school stuff. You pick up the phone, wait for a dial tone, then you call the number. A modem and computer are faster than your fingers even if you know Aunt Sally's number. It will start dialing before the connection is made. Enter the 555 timer. You need a 5 second delay, 10 second, etc.? You get one of these guys and your modem waits for however long you are looking for then dials.

Chris needs a delay when the bus is turned on. Don't check the signal as soon as I put the key in. Wait 5 seconds until everything is connected, already spinning and at speed, etc. I wouldn't be surprised at all if these old buses have 555s in the ECM TCM.

Thru hole --- If you pop open your phone, TV, etc. you will NOT find anything that is thru hole technology. The pins went thru the circuit boards and were soldered to it. Everythign these days is surface mount. Everything is soldered to the surface of the board. Big deal right? Well it kinda is. 1) you don't have to drill holes any more so it's cheaper. 2) You can run traces (wires) thru the board without dodging holes so you can make more connections. Now it's cheaper and smaller. And that's just the circuit card without taking into consideration the parts themselves getting MUCH smaller.

555 and thru hole





surface mount .... the black ones are resistors


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Originally Posted by cowlitzcoach View Post
They lost me somewhere along the way as well.
I take my hat off to Chris. I know exactly what he's talking about, can read his schematic, etc. But he probably has the schematic of the 555 memorized. He stayed in the electronics industry. I'm on the fringe of it. Shouldof, wouldof, couldof stayed in it myself.

Quote:
As the years go by there will be fewer and fewer all mechanical buses left on the road. All of us who know how to work on them will be very appreciative to those you will be able to hold our hands as we wade through the murky depths of VSS, TCM, ECM, 555, and who knows what else!
This is VERY old technology. The new buses will be scary. I dunno if they are caught up with cars or not.

Fly by wire ... there's no physical connection between the gas pedal and the engine. Carbs died years ago. Distributor caps are "retro art". The computer dies and the car dies. I imagine that the brandie new buses '17/'18 and going forward already are there. With the EPA over reaching, fuel expectations, and so on it will happen.
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:05 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
fortunately in columbus ohio 'Micro-Center' and 'Electronic Supply corp' have really taken to the hobby electronics crowd .. and with the popularity of raspberry PI and Arduino type devices.. (arguably started the trend was Basic stamp).. have brought back the component level building and breadboarding once again..
-Christopher
Good to know. All of this stuff can be bought online but it's way more fun going thru the bins. And I have a problem with paying 47 cents for your 555 and $5 for shipping.
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Old 06-30-2017, 08:49 AM   #127
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believce it or not the redbyrd (year 2000) is fly-by-wire.. theres no physical linkage on the accelerator.. in fact all the HEUI emgines were... fly-by-wire is much easier to do on a diesel that has electronic injectors than a gas engine where you have to control air inlet and injectors..

MY HATS OFF to brewerbob! who i thought was onlty mechanical and dang!! this boy knows electronics!. I love it!!!

as far as scan tools... well im kind of a tool-geek... moire than hand tools.. im into scan tools.

-Christopher
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:21 AM   #128
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You guys are reinforcing my theory that in just a few years there will be no more Skoolie builders. Once all the mechanicals are bought up, then what? The damned new buses are becoming so complex that the average Joe/Jane will not be able to manage all the BS technology packed into them. But then...to my mind...that's been the plan for years now.
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Old 06-30-2017, 10:58 AM   #129
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believce it or not the redbyrd (year 2000) is fly-by-wire.. theres no physical linkage on the accelerator.. in fact all the HEUI emgines were... fly-by-wire is much easier to do on a diesel that has electronic injectors than a gas engine where you have to control air inlet and injectors..
I just don't like "smart" cars. Mr. ECU ...The rear window is down but there's no weight in the seat and the seat belt is buckled. I don't think you are going to the grocery store after all.

Quote:
MY HATS OFF to brewerbob! who i thought was onty mechanical and dang!! this boy knows electronics!. I love it!!!
7 1/2 HS credits in electronics. Normal geekitude is 4 credits. Senior year I went to the vocational school for 3 1/2 hrs. It counted towards HS credit. Was also T.A. for one of the jr classes my senior yr. Taught the newbies how to light off the electrolytic caps with a power strip, "weld" with the power supplies and the mechanical pencil lead.

Navy telecommunications school as well. Had some radar schooling too. But all of that and the HS was literally 30 yrs ago. 30 yrs ago this year. Class of '87 so you're the same or +/- a yr depending on bday.

After the Navy I went back and finished the vo-tech electronics course. It went as far as basic microprocessors. Was working in electronics at the time. Interviewed for two jobs; QA and Test Tech. Test tech was on the production floor. Here's a bucket full of boards that failed test. Fix them. Are you done? Not yet; how about now? NOW? The QA job was in the "back closet". Some guy that had been there 2 yrs literally thought it was a broom closet. I'll take the job that doesn't have someone breathing down my neck.

Oh took 1 semester of Apple Basic in HS too. It was a yr long class and the mid term was write a program for the chance of rolling a 7 using two 6 sided dice. Um, how about I just tell you? The class was boring as hell so I dropped it. Had the teacher been good, (s)he would have given me something more interesting to do. I honestly can't even remember the teacher tho.

Quote:
as far as scan tools... well I'm kind of a tool-geek... moire than hand tools.. I'm into scan tools.

-Christopher
Anything that needs a scan tool is too complex for me these days. Had I stuck with the programming or the test tech career path, I would be your twin.

As for you actually having them, aren't they as expensive as hell? The kid next to me at work has the tool that Saab used but he was a long time Saab fan boi/geek.

If I have to pick a tool, I'd much rather have a hand tool as in wood, metal, etc working!!
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Old 06-30-2017, 02:44 PM   #130
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I am waiting for the redbryd plug and play transmission module to put anew allison 1000 in mine, I never did electronics
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Old 06-30-2017, 07:26 PM   #131
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class of 87 here too.. I was programmer / computer / hacker geek all through high school.. its the only way I survived as a kid who was already labelled as "queer" because I didnt want to date girls.. yeah in a military-centric suburban public school.. (beavercreek ohio.. near wright patt AFB... ) once people had the idea that I could probably do all kinds of bad things to their school grades, class schedules, etc.. they all just left me alone.. i stuck with it.. I actually liked it more and more so it turned out well.. our programming classes were a joke too.. pascal and IBM PC BASICA.. first major project of the class I shredded the instructor's program that was on the screen right in front of the class.. id already been playing with IBM PC's for 4 years by the time that class came along.. but I had to take it for "good faith" and the graduation credits that would "look good" for a college... college.. a place I never did go.. and never heard the end of from my father.. who slammed me for that decision my whole life.. except for the last 3.5 years.. cause i havent spoken to him.. a gay son that his mother abused wasnt good enough for him.. so I quit feeling obligated to appease him...

alas - the scan tools.. yeah they cost $$.. but so would service shop hours, esp when doing custom work... a few pro truck shop hours and ive bought a scan tool that I'll have as long as I want to use it..

I have a decent selection of hand tools.. the big stuff i rent.. ie hoists or such as i dont use them often enough to want them in my garage all the time..

computerized cars CAN be a PITA indeed... I suppose thats why my "main" vehicle.. the one I rely on to go to work and back or when I really want peace of mind is a lease.. 2 years and it goes back and I get a new one.. always under warranty.. and I dig all the fancy navi screens and "oh cool it parks itself".. and cruise control that adapts to traffic, etc.. I suppose I will change my tune once the steering wheel is gone and I absolutely cannot control the car any longer..

time to go board a plane.. Grrrr stuck in DFW for 4 hours!!! finally getting on the plane to st pete..

-Christopher
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:04 PM   #132
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here we go!!!! i actually put the wheels to the ground today!!!

part 1, happening as I saw it.. B-roll raw video..



there is a part 2 that is still processing.. ill post it once its done.
-Christopher
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:24 PM   #133
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here we go!!!! i actually put the wheels to the ground today!!!

part 1, happening as I saw it.. B-roll raw video..



there is a part 2 that is still processing.. ill post it once its done.
-Christopher
Just finished watching video on my big screen. Hehe, I felt as if I was the one driving.
I thought you were doing the transmission swap at your house, but I see bus in storage location.
Looking good. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:35 PM   #134
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I did the swap in my storage place.. I did a lot of fabrication work at my house.. the 2 spots are about 5 minutes from each other.. I wore gloves and had covers on the seats of my truck so i didnt get it dirty inside driving back and forth. the storage unit people are pretty layed back.. I keep both of the busses there..

still a bit of electronic work to do yet to make the Vehicle speed sensor more stable.. ive got some ideas to stabilize that.. it got better as i adjusted it and drove.. youtibe is still processing the second video..

its like a whole different bus now!
-Christopher
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Old 07-02-2017, 10:49 PM   #135
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Congrats Chris and thanks for the ride-a-long!

What kind of RPM difference did you see with the 6 speed at 65? I know your speedo was out, but did it seem there a significant drop?

BTW...the engine sounds great too!
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:11 AM   #136
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Congrats Chris and thanks for the ride-a-long!

What kind of RPM difference did you see with the 6 speed at 65? I know your speedo was out, but did it seem there a significant drop?

BTW...the engine sounds great too!

since i went from a Non lockup non pverdrive to a double overdirve, my RPM change a HUGE amount. to go 65 previously I was going at like 2400-2500 RPM and bouncing off the limiter because of the unlocked converter..

now in 6th gear im taching about 1700.. possibly a little low.. (I can lock out 6th if i find the RPM is too low). however amazingly I still seem to have plenty of power .. it was 85-88 degrees yesterday and my radiator fan was kicking in and out which it never did before.. it wouldve just run solid.

the engine seems a lot smoother since I updated the software in it.. it ran rough at first till the ECM finished re-learning the engine..

the new transmission has a nice Kick to it.. the trans is over-built for my application but if I ever decide to really turn up the motor then the trans is ready for it.

-Christopher
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:16 AM   #137
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here we go!! here is the second part of my drive.. I cut out the middle just because it was just me adjusting and checking for fault codes in the trans,,

the transmission was getting into its groove by this time..

your maiden voyage is the MOST importabt drive you take with a new allison, as the TCM goes into an initial learn mode.. you run full throttle as many times as you can, the transmission learns the weight of your vehicle and how best to shift.. if you screw this up, you either need a scan tool to reset the Learn mode or you have to send your TCM in to an allison dealer to be reset...



-Christopher
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:33 AM   #138
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Lookin' good! And that is a huge drop in RPM's! Do you have city & hiway mpg benchmarks from the 545 to compare? I'm guessing you are going to pocket quite a bit of fuel change with this transplant. Granted, it might take a while for that to pay for it, but meanwhile your range should be extended a fair amount.

Keep up the good work...and vids!

Thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-03-2017, 07:47 AM   #139
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I definitely have MPG data and will compare. regardless of the $$ saved, im guessing it will be easier on the engine overall too.. not to mention driveability. Diesels like to be more Loaded and at lower RPM than they do freewheeling at high RPM.

I havent driven it enough yet to get real numbers.. of course I'll run it around town for a bit and tweak the computer program.. and mess with my gauges a bit more too..

the other thing I really noticed is what everyone else was talking about and that was going downhill hitting the downshift and holy crap you almost dont need the brakes.. I always thought the 545 did a halfway decent job of holding but now I understand why people wanted lockup because its holding power is super.. esp when I hit L4 or L3..

this bus is probably rocky mountain capable.. though the 444E isnt as powerful as a 466, I can turn the smoke up to 210 HP easily.. and may do that.. i just have to talk navistar into allowing me to change the program in the computer.

my first test will be driving it around a bit and then a small road trip of about 80 miles each way..

then it will be ready for the ultimate test.. a trip across the "florida desert".. a road trip from I 95 to orlando and then to tampa on I-4, some of the HOTTEST most Humid weather you will find in florida.. in july and august it can easily be over 100 with humidty of 70% or more.. its the proving ground for Fan clutches, transmission coolers, and air-conditioners in my book...

-Christopher
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Old 07-03-2017, 08:11 AM   #140
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Man you're making me want to sell some projects off to buy that transmission for my shorty!
OuTsTaNdInG!
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