Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 07-05-2017, 10:48 AM   #161
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 1,844
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Chris,

Did suncoast give you any input torque specs for this? What about a number for the acceptable full load engine governed speed? What about a GVW?

I couldn't find any info on suncoast's website about any of those. They listed a 1900 whp number but I'm not sure how relevant that is to the real world.

I know that you're likely not going to exceed any of the specs with your shortie. I'd just like to know how much of an upgrade it is over stock and whether or not it could be used in a full sized bus application.
Booyah45828 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 10:59 AM   #162
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
let me find out.. thats a great question on torque specs of my actual build.


the allison 1000 in stock form wasd used in the chevy 7500's and 8500's , I cant remember what their GVWR was on those..

the allison 2000 which is very similar in stock form to a 1000 is used in full sized busses.. at least full fize conventionals.. (12 row).

I'll get the answers on HP / TQ specs of my transmission.
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 12:25 PM   #163
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 958
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
So how many boxes of electronics am I going to need to put one of these in my short bus, or should I just get a manual transmission ?
Kubla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 12:36 PM   #164
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 22,473
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
So how many boxes of electronics am I going to need to put one of these in my short bus, or should I just get a manual transmission ?
Yes, same question here!
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 12:48 PM   #165
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,711
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
So how many boxes of electronics am I going to need to put one of these in my short bus, or should I just get a manual transmission ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
Yes, same question here!
If that's all it takes I've got enough for all 3 of us. I don't think he's quite McGvyer enough to build trannies out of old hard drives, modems, and sound cards tho.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 02:55 PM   #166
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
thesde are like any custom build, alot of work.

pick your poison.. electronic or mechanical

going manual, you'll have to find or fabricate the parts for the correct flywheel, flywheel housing, clutch and clutch disc, clutch slave and master, pedal assembly and install.. parking brake and parking brake bracket (unless you have air brakes). and of course an overdrive manual transmission with the correct Bell. the onlyt electricals involved are 2 simple switches.. one for reverse lights and one for clutch safety..

going allison 1000 the mechanicals are straightforward.. you get your transmission built with an SAE3 bell. it bolts right up in place of the 545 on the same flywheel housing. you either need to find or fabricate a park brake bracket (unless you have air brakes), and a shifter cable bracket.. (junkyard find from a GMC duamaxx or make it)..

both cases you need to alter the driveshaft length.

electronics - you need a programmed TCM module and wiring harness.. connecting the harness to the TCM and to the transmission is just plug it in. at the other end you will need bat+, gropund, ignition+ Vehicle speed sensor (this is the hard one if you had a 545), and a Throttle position (this is easy on electronic engne you just tap into a wire at the go pedal).. on mechanical engine, a TPS with a cable is made that connects in place of your AT545 modulator cable. easy install.

for the VSS (vehicle speed sense)in my case, I built a circuit using a dakota digital SGI5-E box and a few resistors.. it seems to work well.. no codes all day today.. I used 4 variable resistors and some wire.. and im more than happy to share the sechematic with anyone doing the swap. if you can solder you can build it.. no chips or software or such in my little "device"...

I went a couple steps further and connected the "tap shift" up.. if you have a late model car you go from 'D' to 'M' and you can control the maximum gear that your vehicle shifts to... so ie in the mountains, I tap shift from 6 to 4 and it will pull hills and not over-speed on downhills..

and its NOT CHEAP.. I didnt build this on the frugality budget.. however it very possibly could be (except for the TCM) if you can find the right parts in the boneyard.

I built it as a challenge to myself and because I enjoy doing this kind of thing... and to improve the driveability of my bus as well as fix the broken transmission issue.

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 04:39 PM   #167
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 958
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
For me, it would be a junkyard transmission, te444s in s series international's came with manual transmissions more than automatics, all the parts are available and bolt right up.
Like I said before, I do not understand pretty much all of what you are doing to get the speed sensor to work, I can hook wires together and hope it works
Kubla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 06:17 PM   #168
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
For me, it would be a junkyard transmission, te444s in s series international's came with manual transmissions more than automatics, all the parts are available and bolt right up.
Like I said before, I do not understand pretty much all of what you are doing to get the speed sensor to work, I can hook wires together and hope it works
for a junkyard build go manual, no need to buy transmission compouters and such.. and the speed sensor from a manual will probably just work on yours without any electronics.. most we would have to do is reprogram the number of pulses per rev of the driveshaft in your ECM...
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 06:40 PM   #169
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 22,473
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
I'm now convinced my shorty needs a 643. Would be perfect for what we do.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 09:09 PM   #170
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I'm now convinced my shorty needs a 643. Would be perfect for what we do.
I agree a 643 or if any more of those 1545's come up in auction cheap.

you arent running that bus all across the country.. im guessing RYO is going to be your world traveller, so if one of them needed a horsepower upgrade or a trans upgrade to overdrive id do that one..

one thing I notice is having lockup its almost like I upgraded the power.. I drove the bus in M4 for a bit tonight (same ratio as a 643 locked up), and it is pretty powerful.. I can imagine it will run my trips to florida through the mountains at full speed now... even in 4th gear it still ran cooler than with the 545..

so i think for shorty we first adjust down your fan clutch and then you look for a 1545 like turf found..
-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 09:19 PM   #171
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 22,473
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I agree a 643 or if any more of those 1545's come up in auction cheap.

you arent running that bus all across the country.. im guessing RYO is going to be your world traveller, so if one of them needed a horsepower upgrade or a trans upgrade to overdrive id do that one..

one thing I notice is having lockup its almost like I upgraded the power.. I drove the bus in M4 for a bit tonight (same ratio as a 643 locked up), and it is pretty powerful.. I can imagine it will run my trips to florida through the mountains at full speed now... even in 4th gear it still ran cooler than with the 545..

so i think for shorty we first adjust down your fan clutch and then you look for a 1545 like turf found..
-Christopher
10-4

Yeah, lock-up is awesome.
__________________
.
Roll Your Own Build Thread
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2017, 10:26 PM   #172
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 958
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: International
Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
working on getting my MT643 back, it was in the back of my other bus when I sold it, one problem is that I think the 643 has a number 2 SAE bell housing so you need and adapter to go on a TE 444, also is 6 inches longer
Kubla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 06:37 AM   #173
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I didnt realize the 643 is 6 inches longer. do you have a drum brake on your transmission or is your bus air brakes?

engine connection wise.. my 444E flywheel housing came out to an SAE2 mount and then an adapter ring was installed to make it SAE3 for the AT545.. I didnt look close enough to see where the extra spacer is.. if its behind the flywheel then you would just remove it.. if not then you would have to find a set of spacers for the converter nose and converter bolts-to-flywheel that are correect for SAE2. only way really is to tear it apart and see whats there.. you can easily crawl under and see if your engine housing is an SAE2.. if you look at how the 545 is bolted to the engine.. and the bell bolts have another set of bolts in a ring just outside of the actual trans bolts then you have an SAE2 flywheel housing thats been adapted down to SAE3.

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:03 AM   #174
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,711
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
and its NOT CHEAP.. I didnt build this on the frugality budget.. h

I built it as a challenge to myself and because I

-Christopher
... hate money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EastCoastCB View Post
I'm now convinced my shorty needs a 3060. Would be perfect for what we do.
Fixed.

643 is only a 4 speed. And maybe in a shortie but there isn't a chance in hell Chris is going to run up the east coast hills that are called mountains in 4th. My bus weighs 20,600 without seats and plywood.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:31 AM   #175
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewerbob View Post
... hate money.

Fixed.

643 is only a 4 speed. And maybe in a shortie but there isn't a chance in hell Chris is going to run up the east coast hills that are called mountains in 4th. My bus weighs 20,600 without seats and plywood.

Red is a shortie with a GVWR of 17500 so empty its probably what 14000? I have a chance of running the hills in 4th. now 5th? yeah not a chance.. I do have a case open with navistar to try and get a Horsepower upgrade to 210.. I learned the engine itself is the same.. however they may deny me because the bus is a custom project.

but with my gearing I can close to 50-55 in 3rd.. I need to do that yet.. redline in each gear to see what the top speed is.

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:49 AM   #176
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,711
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
I do have a case open with navistar to try and get a Horsepower upgrade to 210.. I learned the engine itself is the same.. however they may deny me because the bus is a custom project.
What do they care? Here, sign this... all warranties are null and void. Here's your 6,000 hp. See you tomorrow for a new one.

Quote:
but with my gearing I can close to 50-55 in 3rd.. I need to do that yet.. redline in each gear to see what the top speed is.

-Christopher
Won't happen with a 643. I haven't tried to beat on mine but 4th to 3rd is 38mph on the downshift (uphill). Not sure where it does the upshift but it's long before 50. 65 is 2500 rpm so I try to stay below that.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 07:56 AM   #177
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
I said the same thing on the phone.. but the dealer guy I talked to (who is real cool) said that its always a liability thing.. he sent me directly to navistar to avoid a shop fee by them calling and opening a case file.

my upshifts are at 2600-2700 which is close to the redline of the engine.. the 545 shifted at those RPMs but because it was unlocked it just was slipping the torque converter..

downshift to 3rd at 38 is about right.. you likely upshift at 45 or close to that.. you are geared a little shorter overall than i am..

with a 6 speed transmission if I geared to 4.10's id probably have a powerhouse of a bus.. but im just happy with the way it takes off now... so i wont be too distraught if navistar doesnt approve the HP update.

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 08:15 AM   #178
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,711
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
my upshifts are at 2600-2700 which is close to the redline of the engine..
I only see those RPMs if I'm not paying attention downhill or I have it floored trying to pass someone.


Quote:
downshift to 3rd at 38 is about right.. you likely upshift at 45 or close to that..
Not a chance in hell. More like 35. I'm due for a fill up soon. I'll have to remember to watch.

Quote:
you are geared a little shorter overall than i am..

-Christopher
4.44 is my rear and the tranny is a straight 1:1
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 09:05 AM   #179
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 13,614
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
the 2600-2700 upshifts on mine are at floored.. I see much lower shift points when im off the go-pedal.

what is your tire size? when I talk of full gear ratio im talking of trans / rear / and the tire size.. im guessing you have 11R22.5 tires?

-Christopher
cadillackid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2017, 09:16 AM   #180
Bus Geek
 
Brewerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Essex, MD
Posts: 3,711
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: Blue Bird TC RE 3904, Flat Nose, 40', 277" wh base
Engine: 8.3L Cummins ISC 260hp, MT643, 4.44 rear
Rated Cap: 84 pax or 1 RV; 33,000lbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
the 2600-2700 upshifts on mine are at floored.. I see much lower shift points when im off the go-pedal.
That's just for your learning tho right?

Quote:
when I talk of full gear ratio im talking of trans / rear / and the tire size..

im guessing you have 11R22.5 tires?
Yeah, I know that's part of it.

Yes.
Brewerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×