The RedByrd TRANSformation.

[Tootalltechie]

Just thought there might be more wires / sensors on the more modern TCM.

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[cadillackid]

thats my thought too.. although the allison pinouts I have from the 1000/2000 service manual dont show any more wires on the later TCM's.. ive learned though that there are a lot of General purpose labels.. GPO and GPI... presumably they are programmable outputs and inputs for the TCM...

my tuniung software doesnt address any of those..

the Big way to interface to them seems to be via the J1939 CAN.. my biggest obstacle is seeing what PGN's and SPN's are supported.. and thats mainly a trial and error thing unless i can convince someone into spilling the beans on a Chassis-builder's manual ...

I intimidate the aftermarket companies because they think i want to steal their product ideas .. and as a little guy, allison laughs at me..

I have to believe that with the extra memory from the newer TCM that it supports more adaptive learning capabilities... and likely you are right more parameters..
I do know that there is a lot of stuff that comes to me from the ECM that I can act on and ship to the transmission in the form of various parameters..

I have quite a few scan tools available to me so I can hack N crack till i get what i need.. after all I cracked the chinese mini split protocol which is on 1 wire TX / RX.. that one was a PITA...
-Christopher

[Tootalltechie]

Are the data pins on the TCM active or have they been turned off?

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[cadillackid]

the J1939 data pins are active on both, thats how im talking to the TCM's.. there is supposedly 2 analog inputs that can be used for throttle / engine load.. I believe mechanical cummins 8.3's with 3060s used this method n the earlier busses.. but im not sure.. im told theres an auto select mode where if the J1939 is not detected it will revert to the analog pins.. but Ive not tried that... the guy I got the A40 TCM from claims thats not the case and he programs all his TCM's normally for analog input because thats how his "magic box" he sells works.. but I got him to get me a J1939 version so i can send more parameters through...

right now im knee deep in playing the the TCC engagement.. bringing back tuning memories of timing and fuel table editing in GM TPI stuff.. good times!!!
-Christopher

[Tango]

Hey Chris...below is the mechanical shifter (cable actuated) for the gen 5.


As you noted, you are limited as to what gears can be chosen. In this case, only first and second. "D" handles 3,4 &5 then OD pulls in 6th. I would much rather be able to directly access any gear but not have to do it electronically.

Still trying to line up an Allison guru to help sort out the TPS and shifter install.

[cadillackid]

Tango -

im told the shift pattern on that is no different than any other medium duty program. which is Circle D(1-6) 4(1-4) 2(1-2) 1(1).

whats interesting is that the "mechanical" shifter isnt as mechanical as it seems.. its more or less just a switch.... at least in the forward gears.. i always thought it altered the valve body valves forcefully so that the computer could be over-ridden..

on my transmission, I can go from 'circle D' to 'D' and still have gears 1-6, regular 'D' on mine equates to 'M' on a newer chevy style truck which is where you electronically shift up and down. so the way my 'tap' shift works.. is if I 'tap down' my trans isnt 'stuck' in that gear like a traditional auto stick.. its like I moved my lever down..

the problem im having is that CAC seems to think their program is good for everyone.. the converter locks in second gear and getting a downshift is near impossible unless i bury the pedal. and even then I feel like Im lugging the engine sometimes.. its supposed to be a 2700 RPM tune which is my redline.. but I feel its too upshift-happy..
their idea is to tap-shift.. then theres me thinking "i bought an Automatic not a manual"..

last night I finally got deep enough to figure out that the TCM is only seeing my Max throttle as 80%.. so thats half the issue rigt there.. the trans is never seeing WOT.

I have a second fully tuneable TCM that i have played with a total of maybe 2 or 3 hours and ive already got it shifting better than the CAC unit.. but then i also mapped it to the fact my TPS only ever shows a max of 80%.. thats a fault in the CAC box that reads my bus TPS and translates it to the TCM.

CAC has been great so far when it comes to response so we will see if i can adjust the TPS within their box so my TCM sees it as 100%..

im hoping im learning some stuff for you that can help you get up and running..

id love to get hold of an allison dealer that could get the J1939 integration guide.. and I could build us both interface boxes that would make these transmissions sing.

-Christopher

[Tango]

Once you get the re-programming dialed in...get a patent and sell it back to CAC! Something tells me you will probably come up with a better tune than anything on the market.

I do want an auto, but it would certainly be nice to be able to pick the gear that I want...anytime I want.

Still no luck locating a freelance Allie tech but I am making a few shop visits next week.

And a question. Do either of your rigs have the separate, mechanical TPS? (cable to box to tranny). If so, how is it connected to the throttle?

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Geeky engine/tranny stuff

-Christopher

Wanna make some money? I'll find you the customers, you push some patches, we both take over the world.... or at least retire.

http://www.skoolie.net/forums/f32/mi...tml#post216593

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Tango

And a question. Do either of your rigs have the separate, mechanical TPS? (cable to box to tranny). If so, how is it connected to the throttle?

only the red bus as an ally 1000.. the other is an AT545.. BUT the 545 does have a cable modulator from the throttle..

in that case it is connected to the pedal itself... so you could connect the TCM you got to your pedal..

this is on my all mechanical DT360.. one of the cables going out to the firewall is the throttle, the other is to the trans and the one thin one coming in from the front is the manual idle speed knob. (or if im running flat out to the floor against the rev limiter its my cruise control.)



-Christopher

[Tango]

Looks very different from what I am working with. The TPS I received just has a mechanical cable that is (somehow, magically) supposed to move with the throttle. The cable goes into a black box that has electrical connectors that must feed info to the trans as it is pulled out.

From what I could tell, the cable to the box should move from "off" to "full" at the same rate as the pedal and throttle. Problem was, the throttles stroke is exactly three inches from closed to full open...but the cable only had like 1-7/8". I made an adjustable adapter that fits lower on the throttle lever than the fuel rod so that they now both go from fully closed to fully open together. No idea if this is right since there were no printed hints that came with any of it, but I'm hoping that is how it is supposed to work. The adapter on the lever was a pain to work up and fab. And I still need whatever wiring is supposed to go from the black box to the tranny.

Just one more reason I really need to get an Allison tech over to my shop.

[dan-fox]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

<snip>

I realize this gets much deeper than most go... but you have to understand this *IS* a big part of the fun for me... while others find fun in building out really nice woodwork.. or super cool furniture they build into their busses... its *THIS* that gets me pumped up...

Dude, you are the Cowlitz of electrons around here! I look forward to meeting you in person someday, and will continue to learn from you.

Eventually we'll get this stuff sufficiently reverse-engineered to produce an open source TCM. After all, "if you can't open it, you don't own it", right?

[Tootalltechie]

With the use of J1939 network protocol are you planning to integrate any other control units?

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[cadillackid]

sorry ive been "off-grid" for a couple.. I just finished driving 1700 miles in the bus.. and wow a lot less fuel stops and I could actually climb hills without overheating and maintained a decent speed the whole time. even with the A/C on and a bit of a headwind i was able to maintain 60-65 on most grades.. and only real slowdown was a 1000 foot climb that took me down to near 50.. but the semis were doing 25 and regular pickups with trailers maybe 55. so i didnt feel so bad.. we all chugged it...

J1939.. theres not much else in my bus to use it for other than the transmission. I drove this trip with my original TCM / TPS. .. before the trip I had played with doing my own transmission tune. and realized I have a lot to learn about full tuning.. so I ran on the tried and true that CAC built..

I found out they mis-programmed my throttle box when they built it.. as its never seeing any more than 80% throttle. hence why my upshifts seem early.. and downshifts late... it is off by 20%.. my actuall throttle is .75 to 3.75 volts.. it appears they are looking at 0 - 5 or 5.25 voilts.. of course its proprietary and settings cant be changed... REALLY? that drives me bonkers.. who builds a box that you cant alter a parameter without sending it back and having it re-programmed.. FAIL! in my book...

alas the bus runs fantastic! I did see a temp of 210 briefly once.. but my oil temp was still 203.. and quickly I was right back down to 205 and under.. I pushed a hill hard in 95 degree heat..
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

of course its proprietary and settings cant be changed... REALLY? that drives me bonkers.. who builds a box that you cant alter a parameter without sending it back and having it re-programmed.. FAIL! in my book...
-Christopher

Um, ... you do know what the word means, yes? Just about EVERYONE does that. If I can alter your code, what do I need you for? You should get a job in the DoD world some day.

[cadillackid]

no no. its not altering the code.. its altering a setting... ie that my throttle outputs 4 volts max instead of 5 volts... thats not altering code... thats a setting
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

no no. its not altering the code.. its altering a setting... ie that my throttle outputs 4 volts max instead of 5 volts... thats not altering code... thats a setting
-Christopher

Easier for me to code it at 5v without a variable.

[cadillackid]

of course it is!! but what customer service level do you have when a customer has to take his vehiclke down, ship the box to the company, they reprogram it.. and ship it back... presumably im shipping it to them on my dime as they havent said otherwise
-Christopher

[Brewerbob]

How often are they going to have someone making a homemade bus? I bet you're the first one that even asked them what the value was.

[cadillackid]

well ANY who have an existing electronic throttle have to provide them voltages.. I took a voltage at every 10% of my throttle. and sent it off to them.. they asked for min and max.. and electronic throttles are common on many engines.. they specialize in cummins conversions.. even newer stuff.. every throttle has nuances.. theres alot of cummins diesel trucks out there with 5'9;s in them that have electronic throttle... they have even done CAT stuff...

for what they charge for that box, a simple adjuster POT on the side would make sense.. chances are anyone who is noticing throttle issues has access to the scan tool to see that fact and can dial it in..

in my opinion id make the adjuster pot. change the value in the device and then you put a rubber plug over it.. 90% of the people wont toucb it.. we are dealing with a couple bucks on a lkow volume box that costs hundreds.. we arent talking about a geberal motors that sells 500,000 devices in a year where that $2 makes a huge difference...
-Christopher

[Tootalltechie]

Totally agree Christopher. A .50 cent voltage divider pot would be so easy to add on the input circuit. Hey maybe there is one in their proprietary product. Charge 150.00 hr for 5 min adjustment. Go figure. Bet their units are not as custom as they want you to think. Any chance of warranty swap out and return? Or will you make an environment safe adjustment circuit?

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