Where to put propane cylinders?

[firebuild]

OK, I just came across this:

ANSI A119.2/NFPA 1192 STANDARD ON RECREATIONAL VEHICLES (1999 Edition)

2-2.3 Location of LP-Gas Containers. LP-Gas containers shall be in accordance with the following:

(a) LP-Gas containers shall not be installed nor shall provisions be made for installing or storing any LP-Gas containers, even temporarily, inside any recreational vehicle. Containers shall not be mounted on the exterior of the rear wall or the rear bumper of the vehicle.

So.... no mounting them to the back.... at all? That seems weird. Where else are you gonna put them, if you can't put them inside and the whole rear wall is off limits? Makes no sense whatsoever to mount them on the side, that seems even more unsafe. I understand why no bumper, but nowhere on the back wall??

There would be no way to mount a standard tank underneath my bus, it would have to be a horizontal and those are expensive. I'm not even sure there would be room horizontally.

[o1marc]

You'll always see the propane bottles mounted on the fronts of RV trailers. Rear crash impact is why they can't be located on the back.Unfortunately, to be perfectly legal, may mean spending some extra money and not using the cheap out.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by o1marc

You'll always see the propane bottles mounted on the fronts of RV trailers. Rear crash impact is why they can't be located on the back.Unfortunately, to be perfectly legal, may mean spending some extra money and not using the cheap out.

This is one of those selective safety situations that drive me nuts.

If I'm in a collision, and I'm the REAR vehicle, then a front-mounted tank is basically the same as a rear-mounted tank. So I just don't get that. The theory behind this is that it's only going to explode if I get hit, not if I hit someone? And what about head-on collision? It just seems like these rules are somewhat arbitrary and don't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, I understand the bumper, but the REAR WALL of the vehicle? I'd have to be hit from behind by an 18-wheeler for propane halfway up the wall to be impacted.

Then there's the fact that propane tanks almost never explode. I remember seeing a Mythbusters episode where they try like hell to get one to blow up, and it takes actual explosives to do it.

If you're in a vehicle that catches fire from the GASOLINE (which is orders of magnitude more flammable than propane), the heat from the fire might cause it to explode, but there's no way it would be the CAUSE of the fire. It's just not volatile enough, and even if the tank ruptures (which is extremely unlikely), it puts out a gas that is flammable, but it doesn't ignite itself. And the odds of a rear end collision causing a gasoline fire are pretty slim.

Four or five years ago a propane tank on the back of a food truck randomly exploded, but it had nothing to do with a collision and it would not have mattered where the tank was: it was improperly filled by UHaul (I'm guessing they overfilled it). 2 people died in that accident, but again, there was no collision or anything involved. There have been other food truck related explosions, too, but it's tossing a match into a leak that causes the explosion every time, not impact. These are the kinds of propane-related accidents that make the news, NOT rear end collisions that result in vehicle explosions.

I grew up in a super fire-conscious household; my Dad, Uncle, and Grandpa were all firefighters. Again, I understand not sticking it right in the line of someone's bumper, but the idea that it's too dangerous to go on the wall is really strange.

OK, rant over. I guess I won't do this, either, but it's not because i'm afraid of an explosion: it's because I'm afraid of a ticket.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by firebuild

This is one of those selective safety situations that drive me nuts.

If I'm in a collision, and I'm the REAR vehicle, then a front-mounted tank is basically the same as a rear-mounted tank. So I just don't get that. The theory behind this is that it's only going to explode if I get hit, not if I hit someone? And what about head-on collision? It just seems like these rules are somewhat arbitrary and don't make a whole lot of sense. I mean, I understand the bumper, but the REAR WALL of the vehicle? I'd have to be hit from behind by an 18-wheeler for propane halfway up the wall to be impacted.

Then there's the fact that propane tanks almost never explode. I remember seeing a Mythbusters episode where they try like hell to get one to blow up, and it takes actual explosives to do it.

If you're in a vehicle that catches fire from the GASOLINE (which is orders of magnitude more flammable than propane), the heat from the fire might cause it to explode, but there's no way it would be the CAUSE of the fire. It's just not volatile enough, and even if the tank ruptures (which is extremely unlikely), it puts out a gas that is flammable, but it doesn't ignite itself. And the odds of a rear end collision causing a gasoline fire are pretty slim.

Four or five years ago a propane tank on the back of a food truck randomly exploded, but it had nothing to do with a collision and it would not have mattered where the tank was: it was improperly filled by UHaul (I'm guessing they overfilled it). 2 people died in that accident, but again, there was no collision or anything involved. There have been other food truck related explosions, too, but it's tossing a match into a leak that causes the explosion every time, not impact. These are the kinds of propane-related accidents that make the news, NOT rear end collisions that result in vehicle explosions.

I grew up in a super fire-conscious household; my Dad, Uncle, and Grandpa were all firefighters. Again, I understand not sticking it right in the line of someone's bumper, but the idea that it's too dangerous to go on the wall is really strange.

OK, rant over. I guess I won't do this, either, but it's not because i'm afraid of an explosion: it's because I'm afraid of a ticket.

Propane is another fuel source, on an RV it should be mounted the same as a fuel tank, outside and under the vehicle. Anyone know of any RV where they put them elsewhere?

[Sleddgracer]

I've witnessed both, fire from gasoline and fire from propane - the gasoline fire happened as a result of a rear end collision, on an old one way wooden bridge - the families in both vehicles were able to escape to either end of the bridge - the creosoot in the bridge caught fire and burned the entire bridge down - the propane fire was likely caused by the valve not being closed properly, or perhaps opening as it rubbed against something else in the loaded pickup - the guy was moving all his possessions, he claimed, when the fire started as he drove down the road - he was able to escape the flames as they shot many feet into the air - we stood talking as we watched everything burn - a couple of hours later, when everything had been hosed down and cooled off, he was able to start the blackened truck and he said he was taking the truck and all to the dump -lol

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Propane is another fuel source, on an RV it should be mounted the same as a fuel tank, outside and under the vehicle. Anyone know of any RV where they put them elsewhere?

As has been mentioned, some RVs mount them on the front, not under the vehicle, plus there are tank holders specifically designed to ride on trailer hitches. I've seen dozens and dozens of Jeeps riding around with easily-punctured jerry cans of gasoline in legal, approved carry racks on the back. Gasoline can ignite at temperatures as low as 80 degrees. It takes almost a thousand to set propane alight. So why is propane the dangerous one? And propane accidents, which are literally almost never related to impact or tank puncture, are no more likely to happen on the back of a vehicle than anywhere else. I'm not saying propane poses no risks, but we're allowed to do all sorts of risky, stupid things. This one isn't even really risky when you compare it.

Personally, I would feel more safe with my tank easily visible on the back than under the bus. It seems to me I'm more likely to avoid the true risk of driving with propane - not properly closing a valve - if the tank is within easy eyesight than if I have to get down on all 4s to see it.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Sleddgracer

the propane fire was likely caused by the valve not being closed properly, or perhaps opening as it rubbed against something else in the loaded pickup

Yeah, that's my point - it's got nothing to do with where the tank is. It's got to do with a valve issue or over pressurization. Again, I'm not saying there's no risk, just that me mounting my propane on the middle rear of the bus is not increasing that risk.

[Yukon Cornelius]

Another thing to think about other than tunnels and parks is Ferries, they have some down right ridiculous rules about TDG, propane and gas are of them. Visible tanks either propane or gas will get you more attention than you want.
typically speaking most boats won't let you have more than 1x 30lb tank or 1x 20L gas can...... These rots me as 9 times out of ten after having this argument, they park you on the boat right beside a b train tanker.....with you guessed it 1203 or 1978 on its placards...

Underneath in a cage with adequate ventilation and ground clearance would be my recommendation, safe, secure and out of site.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

Underneath in a cage with adequate ventilation and ground clearance would be my recommendation, safe, secure and out of site.

It's not that I have an objection to putting it underneath; I just don't see where it would go. It's a shallow space, and there's already two fuel tanks under there. Ground clearance is a concern, also.

[farok]

That's why -- as much as I would prefer 20lb tanks -- I'm looking hard at the little 5lb tanks. They're about 12" tall instead of the 18" of a standard BBQ cylinder. They're also 8" diameter instead of 12". Unfortunately they run out much quicker as well...

[Yukon Cornelius]

Originally Posted by firebuild

It's not that I have an objection to putting it underneath; I just don't see where it would go. It's a shallow space, and there's already two fuel tanks under there. Ground clearance is a concern, also.

hmmm, well that is a pickle for sure, how big are you fuel tanks?

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius

hmmm, well that is a pickle for sure, how big are you fuel tanks?

They're 18 gallon tanks I believe. When the snow stops I'll try and climb under there to shoot a picture.

[Sleddgracer]

Originally Posted by firebuild

They're 18 gallon tanks I believe. When the snow stops I'm try and climb under there to shoot a picture.

if you take the Vin Number into the appropriate dealership, they can give you a printout with what was included when the vehicle was built - including size of fuel tanks

[Bearded_Steed]

I'm just looking into all this, we had thought of mounting outside like a food truck, did not think it would be an issue. Still in planning phases, but this changes it up a bit...

[firebuild]

Either I am misinterpreting something or this regulation is not enforced. Here are threads I found all over the place on other forums:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...e-tank.478580/
These photos are all from that site.


https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/pro...-there.409809/

This one shows this picture:


propane tank between truck bed and camper - Truck Campers - Wander the West

I found this one there:


I found dozens more of these.

Now, I know, just because everyone else jumps off a bridge doesn't mean I should. But I don't see the danger, and if all these folks are getting away with it, then I think I'm just gonna go for it. Not on the bumper, of course, but where I originally planned over the window.

[firebuild]

OH, and look at this product for sale:

Jeep JK, External Corner Mount, for Propane Bracket. - Adventure Trailers Store
For a 5# tank.

And of course, head over to the vandwellers forum and they've all got 'em under the bed or in the passenger seat of the car they're living out of.
https://www.cheaprvliving.com/forums...ane+tank+mount

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by firebuild

Either I am misinterpreting something or this regulation is not enforced. Here are threads I found all over the place on other forums:

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/...e-tank.478580/
These photos are all from that site.
Attachment 29753Attachment 29754Attachment 29755

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/pro...-there.409809/

This one shows this picture:
Attachment 29756

propane tank between truck bed and camper - Truck Campers - Wander the West

I found this one there:
Attachment 29757

I found dozens more of these.
t you'll have any issues with t back there, just best to be educated on the law when you get banged.
Now, I know, just because everyone else jumps off a bridge doesn't mean I should. But I don't see the danger, and if all these folks are getting away with it, then I think I'm just gonna go for it. Not on the bumper, of course, but where I originally planned over the window.

This rational reminds me of the pit bull owner who has it around his kids for years and the dog ends up ripping off a neighbor childs face and the dogs owners defense was "He's never done that before." Those pics of tanks on the back could fall into the same category as all of us driving yellow buses school buses when law specifically forbids it. I doubt you'll have any issues with it back there, just best to be educated on the law when you get janged.

[firebuild]

Originally Posted by o1marc

This rational reminds me of the pit bull owner who has it around his kids for years and the dog ends up ripping off a neighbor childs face and the dogs owners defense was "He's never done that before." Those pics of tanks on the back could fall into the same category as all of us driving yellow buses school buses when law specifically forbids it. I doubt you'll have any issues with it back there, just best to be educated on the law when you get janged.

It's a risk I'm comfortable with. But then I love pits, so I guess I am just a daredevil (though my own dog is a chihuahua mix - travel size). If I felt there were a genuine safety risk I would likely make a different decision, but I really can't find anything to convince me I'm in danger by mounting a tank halfway up the rear wall.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by firebuild

It's a risk I'm comfortable with. But then I love pits, so I guess I am just a daredevil (though my own dog is a chihuahua mix - travel size). If I felt there were a genuine safety risk I would likely make a different decision, but I really can't find anything to convince me I'm in danger by mounting a tank halfway up the rear wall.

Oh, you mean "pets", thought you had a weird fetish there for a second.

Not to dissuade you from your decision, but you might want to see some of this and be better informed.

https://www.google.com/search?ei=r21...67.EPsHU46j6E0

[1olfart]

I've often thought some sort of a "lift" would work for propane tanks. It shouldn't be too difficult to add a hand, (or powered) crank to a platform, that would raise things above a level that would be in a "crash zone" I understand that weight would limit you, to some degree, but being able to raise propane tanks, and even a generator, would also be a way to better protect things.
Thoughts?