DAYS ARE NUMBERED

[sportyrick]

I think your days running veggi oil are numbered boys. I saw where MickeyD is going to sell their WO to a recycler. It won't be long till the trucks are coming around and picking it up for $1 a gallon. Their waste is becoming a precious commodity and you will get squeezed out. They're doing the same thing to landfills, tapping them for Methane gas. When was the last time you trapped/tapped your methane gas? The wife and kids will help on that one
Did you know you can run your engine on wood smoke? sportyrick

[the_experience03]

There is a commercial outfit in Wisconsin that is getting in on the deal. They are buying up the WVO from a local chip factory, filtering it, and selling it for use in modified vehicles and heating equipment. They are charging about $1.50 for offroad stuff and $2.00 with road tax on it. No, it isn't as cheap as doing it yourself with free oil, but it is professionally filtered and settled oil. I would equate it to burning corn gas without taking such a big hit on fuel mileage.

The gentlemen running the operation have an interesting business plan that they claim will drop prices as volume grows. In addition to their recycled commercial oil they want to encourage farmers to grow rapeseed and cold press it into canola oil. The farmers would keep the leftover high protein feedcakes for dairy while selling the oil to the local eateries. This company would then come collect the used oil, process it, and sell it back to the farmers for use in their tractors for next year's crop. It is an ambitious plan and might be a little idealized, but it's a step in the right direction.

[phillbus914]

$2.00/gallon

For something they got for free and filtered?

Might as well just run diesel for 2.85/gallon and not have to worry about it.

[the_experience03]

I'm not positive that they get it for free. They also pay $.50 in road tax on it. I think they're convinced that the price will drop with volume. If not they will fail. It's as simple as that. Atleast you know it is professionally filtered. The only thing is I don't know that you still have grounds to go after them if your engine is toast since it's not even an official alternative fuel (yet some fuel called P-series is).

[soused moose]

Rick ….Here’s a few links to sites that deal with Wood Smoke Generators that are pretty interesting from a do it yourself point of view …
http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/index.shtml
http://members.tripod.com/~highforest/w ... fired.html

Because I just like checking things out I picked up the plans for building a wood gas setup from Mother Earth News and think they did their usual good job of explaining things ….
http://www.motherearthshopping.com/deta ... Number=762

[Apocalyptica]

It is the people who are seeing dollar signs and collecting all the oil that will end it. I am sure they started with good intention, but following The same profit model of the companies they seek to replace will just recreate the current paradigm. What is needed is to boycott the companies and collect the oil yourself. This is the moment where we can take control of our energy supply, a critical need if we wish more autonomy. Eventually they will make it illegal to do it yourself, and like the water and other resources, they will attempt to horde it and feed off of our lives. This is the moment to resist this trend and do the work, or farm it out to a collective in which you exchange time and not money as we are accustomed to doing. If we do it ourselves and refuse to pay money, it will have no value. Otherwise, we are just going to see Shell/BP/Exxon growing corn in impovershed countries and profiteering, while the local people starve and have to compete for resources with the fuel we will be using to drive our vehicles. This is no longer an acceptable arrangement. Our happiness must not be predicated by the suffering of others who just wish to live. We are all in the same boat....

Apocalyptica

[adamanderr]

grease has almost always been sold or given to rendering companies , the new press for wvo is not helping the resale to veggie oil burning vehicles, a good read on the redtape of wvo is biodiesel power lyle estill from the piedmont biofuel coop group.

[GoneCamping]

With commercial grade diesel now running close to $5 per gallon, it's still a bargain if you have to pay the Chinese restaurant down the street a couple bucks a gallon for their old oil...

[Train-train]

I am close to buying a kit. I have been looking around and if you are going to pay to have it done, Golden Fuel Systems have a number of places that will convert it for you. So far, it looks to be very on the high side for labor cost and any customization or fabrication that will need done. I have been studying the theory and I am more comfortable with Frybrid. These guys have installation shops but they are on either coast. Check out the Frybrid forums, there is a butt load of knowledge there.

[dlor1]

We just started a collection and conversion company out here in Colorado, things have changed in the past year but it's still out there. Just make sure you read the labels on the drums and don't steal from biofuels companies.

[DeesSqueeze]

Wood gas generators are proven... ask any Finn or Swede who remembers the War... or any of the researchers who've started investigating the concept all over again. I am investigating the potential for a wood gas generator to power a bus conversion. But I'm having a lot of trouble finding what kind of mileage I can expect. Some of the car conversions claim 9,000 miles per cord. That seems a little extreme, but who am I to say? Anybody here have any ideas whatsoever?

[Roasting8]

Originally Posted by DeesSqueeze

Wood gas generators are proven... ask any Finn or Swede who remembers the War... or any of the researchers who've started investigating the concept all over again. I am investigating the potential for a wood gas generator to power a bus conversion. But I'm having a lot of trouble finding what kind of mileage I can expect. Some of the car conversions claim 9,000 miles per cord. That seems a little extreme, but who am I to say? Anybody here have any ideas whatsoever?

Hey Squeeze, I remember reading about wood gas generators in an old Mother Earth News. I can't remember which issue it was, but the people at Mother Earth did make a car using wood.

Also, if you can find him, Silver Bear had a wood gasifier on his bus. I don't know how lucky you'll be, his bus was from the 70s and I doubt if he's still around.

BTW, I think the issue of Mother Earth News had plans to build a gasifier.

Good luck.

Robert

[Roasting8]

Originally Posted by DeesSqueeze

Wood gas generators are proven... ask any Finn or Swede who remembers the War... or any of the researchers who've started investigating the concept all over again. I am investigating the potential for a wood gas generator to power a bus conversion. But I'm having a lot of trouble finding what kind of mileage I can expect. Some of the car conversions claim 9,000 miles per cord. That seems a little extreme, but who am I to say? Anybody here have any ideas whatsoever?

Hey Squeeze, the link for wood gasifier plans is: http://www.motherearthnews.com/shopp...itemnumber=762

[DeesSqueeze]

Thanks for the links... I've been there, read the relevant stuff... but the problem is, while they give really interesting design points, they don't say much about mileage per cord. Yeah, I know, green wood vs. seasoned wood, poplar vs oak... but still, a range of potential values would be nice. I mean, if a ton of cordwood give 500 miles, then maybe it's not such a good idea. OTH, if a ton gives 5,000 miles, then it becomes much more interesting. I guess it's just a matter of surfing until I stumble onto something.

[Elliot Naess]

I grew up in Norway and can confirm that my parents' and grandparents' generation made good use of wood gasification during the Nazi occupation. From photos I saw, it was typically an apparatus that filled the entire trunk area of the car, to above the roof. And power was very low. But it worked.

Not much mention of electric power here yet. I like electric propulsion. Test drove one of the original 50 GM Impact (EV 1) prototypes, and lem'me tell ya', I wish my Dodge Dakota had that kind of snappy get-up-n-go. And gotta love the fact that electric motors deliver full power from a standstill! No transmission or clutch needed.

Battery technology is the big problem. Batteries were basically perfected 100 years ago. Clara Ford ran her errands around Dearborn in electric cars like the Baker Electric -- not in her husbands temperamental model Ts.

There are two kinds of electric vehicles.
A. "Real" electrics, with no clutch or transmission. Power accessories like power steering and air conditioning are self-contained and operate even when the traction engine is stopped.
B. "Gerry-rigged conversions", which retain the clutch and transmission of the original vehicle. In these, the electric engine always turns, so that the accessories can be driven off a front pulley as usual.

Generally, but not always, "real" electric cars have Alternating Current motors, while the conversions tend to use less expensive Direct Current motors.

If I understand it right, the controller is a very costly item, specially for A/C motors.

If you are still reading this, you may know something about such things. And if you do, I'm looking for an inexpensive way to get a controller for a big-honking A/C motor I have here. It came out of a real electric car, but I did not get the controller with it.

No, I don't think it could be used for anything in my bus -- allthough OF COURSE I would like to have the first hybrid skoolie! But I might stick it in a small car for local errands, or in a "Mutant Vehicle" for Burning Man.

[paul iossi]

Elliot,
look at industrial/forklift parts, the GE EV1 control system has been around forever, thir has to be used and refurbished units available, you would only need the traction motor part of a forklift drive system for a car.

[Elliot Naess]

Thanks Paul! Great idea.

[drclue]

Hey Squeeze, I remember reading about wood gas generators in an old Mother Earth News. I can't remember which issue it was, but the people at Mother Earth did make a car using wood.

Also, if you can find him, Silver Bear had a wood gasifier on his bus. I don't know how lucky you'll be, his bus was from the 70s and I doubt if he's still around.

BTW, I think the issue of Mother Earth News had plans to build a gasifier.

Good luck.

Robert

Last I saw of silver bear , most of his buses were gone and all he had left was a non-running greyhound. Big Dave had passed on in Watsonville
and everyone had to move on, so I don't know if he even has that bus , or if he had to move into his van..

As to wood gasification, it's not all that complicated. It was used back in the world wars when liquid fuels were in short supply.
basically one has a tube filled with wood chips or the like. The fire burns from the bottom of this tube with a very limited air supply.
The tube is nested in another tube and the gases escaping the smoldering fire (20% hydrogen) are drawn off by the vacume of the engine.
Along the way to the engine , the gases are perked through water or other filtering to remove the tars that would gunk up an engine.
There are some basic plans available through of all places FEMA (The Katrinia screw ups )

Vehicals powered by wood gasification are somewhat gutless , but will eventually get up to speed. Wood gasification has even been used with Diesel engines.
VW even made some production cars ~1944 powered in this fashion.

I have a link on one of my sites that describes how to build a wood gasifier.
http://primus.drclue.net/Power/WoodGas/index.php It's largely based upon the FEMA (The Katrina people) .pdf file on the subject,
but I'm adding more material as time permits regarding improvements to the design.

--Doc

[bbbrt76]

try this forum http://www.evdl.org/ for any information you could want electric cars, though as much as I'd like to do an electric as heavy as a bus the heavier you get the vastly more costly electric becomes

[RazorCityDen]

I think getting free WVO is a regional thing, folks in my neck of the woods are still paying to have it hauled off.

Take care,
Den