Hybrid school bus, is it possible?

[Robin97396]

It is a nice earth friendly thought. Not good for a budged though.

In a few years you should be able to buy a used hybrid bus. I'm curious to know if they'll resell high or not.

[Docsgsxr]

I was reading somewhere on here that someone wanted to do something similar. I think all of us "old timers" agreed that if you "felt guilty" driving a diesel, maybe a bus isn't something you should invest in. If you have that kind of money, buy something brand new and gut it and make it into what you want. The new city buses in Phoenix are Hybrid. I am sure you could get one for $100K.

Just a suggestion, but that is all it is.

-Doc

[crazycal]

Originally Posted by Docsgsxr

I was reading somewhere on here that someone wanted to do something similar. I think all of us "old timers" agreed that if you "felt guilty" driving a diesel, maybe a bus isn't something you should invest in. If you have that kind of money, buy something brand new and gut it and make it into what you want. The new city buses in Phoenix are Hybrid. I am sure you could get one for $100K.

Just a suggestion, but that is all it is.

-Doc

I don't what kind of buses they bought but I'm pretty sure they paid more than $100k. You could easily pay that for a bus built on a F550 chassis.

[Scooternj]

Originally Posted by TAOLIK

Martinem,

Welcome to our community(I'm new as well), If eco friendly is your concern, I think you should look into vegetable oil conversions, the conversion is relatively simple (but complicated enough for me not to bother) and will be eco friendly as you desire, also you'll still be able to use regular diesel if you don't have any vege oil around.

One of the big problems with veggie oil conversions is that it's getting harder and harder to find someone willing to just give you WVO. It might just be easier to keep it diesel. Remember, we're repurposing something that would have been sent either to the crusher or shipped overseas so that right their should assuage some guilt.

[cowlitzcoach]

IC built some hybrid drive school and commercial buses a few years ago. The hybrid drive was an Eaton unit.

On the right routes they weren't bad. Right being defined as no hills and no speeds over 35 MPH. Once you started going up hills or over 35 MPH you went out of hybrid drive and into diesel only. At that point the diesel only portion was not nearly as economical as regular diesel buses of the same size.

The cost to repair the Eaton hybrid drive units was astronomical. It was hoped the drive unit would become popular and economy of scale would then prevail. It didn't get popular so the cost of the units and the cost to repair them have yet to come down in price.

The Salem, OR transit authority has/had two of them. They spend more time in the shop than they do on the road. The reasons are legion but the bottom line is the technology is not proven as far as I am concerned.

Personally, I think the fact that you are thinking of repurposing a bus for a useful second life is eco-friendly enough.

[jake_blue]

My goal is to reduce the weight of my bus, reuse as much of the materials as I strip out of it and recycle the remaining materials... it doesn't get more eco-friendly than that!

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by crazycal

It's a good thing I wasn't drinking coffee because I'd be really pissed.

I've seent it... Be glad Cal wasn't caffeinated!

[Hank's P-O-S]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

There are a lot of really nice looking CNG buses for cheap usually. Most people don't have access to a CNG fueling station. In cities you can get a CNG compressor that fills your car, so it's possible to do that with a bus too if you can find one of those home fueling compressors.

Used CNG stuff is CHEAP FOR A REASON. My uncle is near the top of a medium sized American trucking company that USED to use CNG trucks.

They purchased them because major clients wanted them as part of a "green" initiative. These trucks which they paid more for, lasted about half as long as their diesel counterparts. They were also forced to buy several CNG refuel trucks as the CNG trucks were getting stranded due to weather and running out of fuel.

[Robin97396]

Is propane any better?

[Hank's P-O-S]

Originally Posted by Robin97396

Is propane any better?

If your asking me, I have no experience either way and my uncle never said anything about propane.

Although if I remember correctly, it does burn "dryer". Which if I understand correctly is the problem.

[Robin97396]

I don't pretend to have an opinion, but I do know that propane vehicles or even propane carburetors sell for a premium in Canada. They often come down and get propane vehicles because it is, or was, a much cheaper fuel source within the country. Bearable even in the US I'm told.

[Albatross]

While being able to have a hybrid bus would be nice; it is not yet a scientific reality--we just don't posses the power-storage capability in any sort of realistically imaginable possible configuration OR budget. Perhaps one day, after LiFe (Li-Ion) batteries become old-news and we've moved on to some other form of chemical storage, maybe. You COULD design and MAKE a hybrid skoolie, but it would realistically only be as a proof-of-concept; because it would be so expensive, that you would probably already be living out of some other Provost Class 'A' RV.

You shouldn't feel guilty about driving a diesel, because diesels are actually greener engines than combustion engines. They're built to higher standards, being compression engines, and they combust the fuel mixtures better, when they are operating within standards. The newer engines, using the DEF also have a catalyst on their exhaust fumes to further reduce what pollutants come out of the engines. The older engines, when properly maintained, have quite clean exhaust, whether you're burning old-skool diesel, the new 5% Bio-fuel ULSD mixture, or Waste Motor-Oil blended with gasoline or kerosene; hell, I've burned Waste Auto-Tranny Fluid and passed an emissions test. Your engine will combust its fuel-air mixture as clean as you can keep your engine.

Gasoline/combustion engines are more popular here in the states because capitalism, which likes cheap production. Diesel compression engines are more popular in the rest of the world because they are more efficient, and they last longer, which reduces the waste going to landfills. And even though you may be using a relatively large-volume engine, it's closer to the proper size for moving what you want where you want than a car is. Think about a 5.3L diesel engine moving an 8-ton home, and then compare it to a 5.0L mustang moving 4600 lbs with a 200-pound jackass inside--which is being more efficient.

Lastly, only around 20-25% or so of the greenhouse gas problem comes from transportation and fuels for power generation, and the other 70-75% or so comes from cattle agriculture. I'm not a vegan, and I don't proselytize for vegetarianism, or even against eating beef, but if you want to save the environment, stop eating beef, because that is what has caused the most damage to the environment.

[TAOLIK]

Call me a dirty hippie, but getting WVO wouldn't be that hard. If you're fin ewith recycling it illegally you just need to syphon it out of any of the thousands of oil cans behind any restaurant you go to. If you want it legally you can talk to the owners of any restaurant and explain your situation and they will very likely give you permission to take their waste oil from their oil cans in back. At the restaurant I manage, we currently get paid about 0.02 per gallon of oil that gets recycled but I was told that gas prices are so low right now that a lot of restaurants have to pay per gallon to have it rid of.

Continuing on the diesel schoolbusses can be environmentally friendly argument. You have to think about the opportunity cost of these busses. If you don't adopt it, it will likely go to a less caring owner or slowly become landfill which would have a half life in the ground of about 2 billion years. Speaking of which, the environmental impact of producing a new RV is equivalent 20,000 gallons of diesel emission and that does not include the wasteful impacts of dumping old RV's. I have no sources for these numbers because I made them up, but conceptually it checks out.

[skoolie_n00bie]

Originally Posted by Hank's P-O-S

If your asking me, I have no experience either way and my uncle never said anything about propane.

Although if I remember correctly, it does burn "dryer". Which if I understand correctly is the problem.

Regular gasoline cars have been converted to propane in europe for decades, now. Matter of fact, Fiat (since my family is italian ) and other carmakers, roll gpl-ready vehicles right out of assembly line.

My dad used to work at a semi-large gas station that had a refueling station. These were extremely common by mid-90s.

It all started simply because of costs. Yes, you'd lose some performance, but gas prices were starting to be just too much. Then, the gov.t got in the middle, and hiked taxes on gpl, too

[jake_blue]

I'm also still a proponent of the "greener on the surface isn't really greener" philosophy. Just because tailpipe emissions are lower on a Prius or Tesla doesn't mean their environmental impact is less. Lithium for batteries is very environmentally impactful to mine and refine; after its ten-year useful life a lithium battery is pretty much landfill. During its life it requires daily recharging and our current electrical power comes from *surprise* fossil fuels. So if you take one hundred million fossil fuel burning cars and trucks, (about 20% I think) replace them with plugins, what are you using to power the national power grid? There is no magical zero-pollution energy source that's going to feed our power-hungry modern lifestyle but you can do your part... Skoolie living represents reducing your footprint from the average-American-3k-square-foot home to about 300 square feet, becoming highly efficient with your energy and water usage, and the added bonus of being able to live independently and off-the-grid if you so desire. You reduce your consumption and waste and are reusing an otherwise landfill-bound vehicle. So don't let the liberal propaganda agenda make you think that just because it's a 'dirty' diesel engine that it's somehow evil.

[skoolie_n00bie]

But yeah....i thought about this myself...it would be cool to attempt, if you had $$$ to burn, and lots of it.

Besides, just the amount of batteries needed to move that hulk of metal would weight as much as the bus!

Unless you're Tony Stark, then you'd have gigawatts in a little gizmo

[turf]

i think it'll be huge dollars to convert one... probably cheaper to buy a hybrid bus new, than to build it yourself.

also, not sure how green electric cars are, when you have to pay the electric company to burn something for your consumer power needs.

however, it would be a cool feat of engineering to do so.

if i were gonna make a bus hybrid, i'd make it like a train locomotive. no storage battery, just a big diesel motor running a big genny making the electric motorized wheels go round and round.


my 2 cents

[skoolie_n00bie]

Originally Posted by turf

i think it'll be huge dollars to convert one... probably cheaper to buy a hybrid bus new, than to build it yourself.

also, not sure how green electric cars are, when you have to pay the electric company to burn something for your consumer power needs.

however, it would be a cool feat of engineering to do so.

if i were gonna make a bus hybrid, i'd make it like a train locomotive. no storage battery, just a big diesel motor running a big genny making the electric motorized wheels go round and round.


my 2 cents

THAT'S AN IDEA!
Turn a bus into a giant Chevy VOLT! haven't thought of that! You could generate enough power to run your WHOLE HOUSE during hurricane/blizzard! season!

[jake_blue]

That shouldn't be too bad, the engine runs at a consistent speed turning the generator and sans transmission you don't need a driveshaft... Just electric lines to a drive motor. You could also achieve all-wheel drive this way.

[skoolie_n00bie]

Originally Posted by jake_blue

That shouldn't be too bad, the engine runs at a consistent speed turning the generator and sans transmission you don't need a driveshaft... Just electric lines to a drive motor. You could also achieve all-wheel drive this way.

...And forget "standard" all-wheel drive....a single high-output electric motor per WHEEL!!!!!

Can you imagine turning a bus on a DIME!!!!
Sure, engineering alone of the whole plant would be a nightmare, but who cares!
Someone either needs to do this, or find someone else that already did it!
Because, as it was said before, "if you can think of it, someone else already did it!"
Google, where are you...?