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Old 05-23-2016, 11:44 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by skoolie_n00bie View Post
...And forget "standard" all-wheel drive....a single high-output electric motor per WHEEL!!!!
I concepted something like this with a Jeep buddy for an off-road vehicle because axles and drivelines just restrict articulation but I don't foresee that being a factor in a bus. That being said, there could be advantages such as better all-wheel traction control although the turning radius would be limited by the steering wheel limitations. I think Chevy tried an all-wheel steering pickup truck once but the fact that it's not available now suggests that there's more to the physics than just making all wheels able to pivot.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:51 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by jake_blue View Post
I concepted something like this with a Jeep buddy for an off-road vehicle because axles and drivelines just restrict articulation but I don't foresee that being a factor in a bus. That being said, there could be advantages such as better all-wheel traction control although the turning radius would be limited by the steering wheel limitations. I think Chevy tried an all-wheel steering pickup truck once but the fact that it's not available now suggests that there's more to the physics than just making all wheels able to pivot.
Oh, i see...what if instead you'd turn the bus "tank-like", 1/2 going front, 1/2 going back? still pretty tight turn radius for a 40footer!
-OR-
switching from FWD, RWD or AWD depending or road conditions...
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:08 PM   #43
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The FWD/RWD/AWD thing is totally feasible in an electric-wheel driven vehicle.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:35 PM   #44
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The reminded me of the "original" hybrid electric truck

Chevy-Volt-Truck-Prototype | UtterPower.com


(This is satire, btw)
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:46 PM   #45
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Myself and a friend were trying to do this about 20 years ago using electric forklift motors and batteries. Didn't have enough electrical engineering knowledge to make it happen.
Our idea was to replace the diesel engine and transmission with a diesel generator in a dog nose truck at that time, dispensing of the idea of batteries and the weight issue. Independently powering each wheel would be cool, but again the engineering on that would be spendy. Using standard axles and possibly a motor for each axle for 4x4 or front wheel drive operation seems feasible. You could even run off of one motor if you included a transfer case, but that would require going back to full drive lines in the length of the vehicle.

We were trying to do this for the basic cost of the truck and a diesel generator. We needed electric forklift motors which are available in many auctions. We were unable to interest an electrical engineer in sharing knowledge and eventually timed out on the project.

This presents a number of problems in practice because generators are designed to operate at a certain rpm range. It seems some can have the governor removed and some can't.

This project just kept getting hung up on simple problems because we didn't have enough electrical knowledge to make it happen. There may be a chance of ruining a generator by running it at lower speeds when having lower power requirements. We got as far as we did because of getting things from the auctions at low prices. Fun project that didn't fly.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:25 PM   #46
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What you want to do is run the generator at its optimal rpm regardless what speed the vehicle is traveling. You do want some batteries so that when generator output exceeds drive demand the surplus power is stored and then when acceleration or climbing demands more power than the generator alone you have reserve power. Also, as far as putting gearing between the drive motor and the drive wheels, you could either opt for a CVT or I think a company called Speedwright makes a two-speed differential that shifts within a range of input RPM. Electric motors have full torque at 0 RPM so the only reason you should still need gearing is to use a smaller capacity motor than the vehicle size demands. An electric forklift motor can have all the torque to get it moving but tops out at maybe 8mph. Taller gears would reduce its weight capacity. If it were me, I'd be looking for salvage Priuses (Priusees? Prii?) And get one Prius motor per wheel! Still probably not enough eHP but for a shade tree project that's about the best alternative I can think of - anything else is huge industrialized motors which won't lend themselves well to a OTR application.
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Old 01-10-2021, 04:55 PM   #47
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Hub Motors

Really old thread here and I need to read up on it - but I ran across this - https://www.mtsu.edu/gem/index.php

The goal that I am thinking of is to not fully power the bus like an EV, but have hub motors help it get going, be able to use the hub motors in regenerative braking (thinking of long mountain downhills...) and to utilize the a couple of Leaf or tesla type battery banks to draw power from when parked.

Thoughts?
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Old 01-10-2021, 06:38 PM   #48
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Hey! That's my old screen name! There's been some developments since 2016. Tesla is an all-electric solution but I'm still partial to a hybrid solution. Tesla's semi prototype is reported to use 4 of the hub motors from their cars, one in each drive wheel, to provide adequate torque. The concern I have is battery requirements to keep up with stop and go traffic. A hybrid diesel-electric configuration seems likes a better option so that a smaller internal combustion engine turns a generator and battery capacity (weight) needs only satisfy the short-term demands. If you want to add battery capacity for comfort/convenience loads while parked that may be a worthwhile weight penalty but unnecessary if you use energy wisely.
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Old 01-10-2021, 07:32 PM   #49
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Yeah, there have been some great advancements since 2016 - and yet, no one is really converting.
With what was going on in that article I posted,you could possibly add something to your existing hub and brake drum. Like a permanent magnet motor.
But I haven't been able to get a hold of the professor in charge.
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Old 01-10-2021, 08:37 PM   #50
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Must my in my dreams a Tesla semi power package( batteries, motors and electronics) would be great... but cost where to recharge as you can only use Tesla's chargers if you buy the car/truck. Hybrid is more doable, using a generator to charge the batteries, and still having the Tesla motors and batteries. but a lot of cost and not to sure it would have enough gain. Stop and go traffic, school bus route or any driving that regen braking gives back. However highway driving which is most of our skoolie driving minimal fuel mileage gain. Here in Virginia electric buses are already being used by some schools. Wait till they get retired and add a generator.
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Old 01-11-2021, 05:46 AM   #51
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RE the article BlackHeart references and the video link, I'm just not sure how practical any type of retrofit kit will ultimately prove and it seems far more likely to me that if electric vehicles become the de facto standard then internal combustion will simply fade into the sunset as infrastructure converts and upkeep becomes cost prohibitive for the average personal vehicle owner. If conversion is an avenue, I think this is simply a more likely candidate:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that-...ny-classic-car

And it even looks like a small block V-8! It seems to rely on existing drivetrain so if you still have a transmission then you don't need a very large motor and smaller motor means lower battery consumption. However, by keeping the transmission and conventional drivetrain you haven't reduced the weight much so then that's a tik back on power requirements. So it's a balancing act.

In the school bus world there have been a few (very few it seems) advances in electric and hybrid technology but as these buses are essentially built in semi/heavy truck technology and that industry hasn't fully embraced either method of electrification, the amount of R&D being poured into electric school buses is surprisingly little, probably just enough to produce a few prototypes for schools in communities with deep pockets and progressive policies towards environmental responsibility. So many are more likely cash strapped so don't want to spend twice as much per bus for an unproven technology which they can't even fit themselves.
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