Veggie Oil mixed with Gasoline??

Hawkcreek · 09-12-2006, 10:58 PM

Has anyone ever tried to mix a small porportion of veggie oil with gasoline to stretch it a bit. I know the octane rating would go down a bit, depending on the percentage of oil, and I know it would probably smoke, but would the BTU's burned be equivalent to a mileage increase if the veggie oil was free?

the_experience03 · 09-13-2006, 12:48 AM

Cetane, not octane is what you're interested in for diesel fuel. I mixed a small amount of diesel with some veggie oil and a small amount of gas with another jar just to see how it works. Both do a fine job as solvents. I determined that even a 50% mixture of diesel would be acceptable to run for me as it most CERTAINLY spees up filtering. Most people who cut their WVO do it to make things flow faster, whether it be for filtering or to aid in faster starting in cold weather.

That said....diesel is a safer substance to use for mixing as it is what the engine was designed for. In my experiemtns, gasoline mixted better and had no seperation after sitting for a week. Most manuals for diesel engines give a list of substances you can mix with diesel in the winter to prevent waxing. Most go as high as 25% for gasoline, but I don't know that I would ever subject my motor to that. I'm sure 15% would be ok, but if you're trying to just use WVO as a supplementary fuel, why not mix it 50%? It will essentially double your mileage in terms of cost and might even allow cold starting the motor on the mix without risking damage.

All said, I would probably use google and the search ifunction on this board. There are thousands of people out there running all kinds of fuel blends.

Hawkcreek · 09-13-2006, 08:49 AM

I was talking about mixing vegetable oil in with gasoline to go in a gas engine, not a diesel engine. Sorry, I wasn't clear about it.

lapeer20m · 09-13-2006, 11:43 AM

i don't think that would work. The fuels are too dissimilair. Gasoline is flamable, while diesel fuel is only considered combustable.

The flash point (temperature at which the fuel gives off enough vapor to ignite at sea level...it's vaports that ignite, not liquids) of gasoline is about negative 30 degrees F while veggie oil is about 300 degrees F.

You cannot burn diesel fuel in a gasoline engine, it just won't run. The reason diesel fuel (flash point about 120 degrees) ignites in a diesel engine is due to the extremely high compression ratio. I think my mercedes dieses was about 20 or 23:1 compression. That's about 3 times the compression ratio of a gasser.

A diesel engine would run (not for long) on gasoline. Compression generates heat. A diesel operates off of the principle that if you compress a flamable liquid enough it will ignite. The problem with gasoline in a diesel is that the gasoline begins to ignite before the pistons reach the top of the cylinder causing a lot of forces to be generated at the wrong time.

Another problem with burning veggie in a gasser is trying to keep the oil hot as it works it's way through the carberator. One more thing is that veggie oil leaves a lot of carbon buildup, and i'm sure this carbon would coat the spark plug in short order causing the engine to not run due to ignition problems.

JonCBrand · 09-13-2006, 12:31 PM

I have a friend that works on OTR trucks. some of his clients run a 50/50 mix of diesel and filtered used oil in their trucks. They lose a small amount of power but when your truck or bus uses 4 gallons of oil perchange there is plenty to go around. So they cut their fuel bills in half. Needless to say this is illegal and not smart for winter use. I might try it in my bus next summer. I work at a dealership so used oil is free. I think ill start with a 20% mix and see what happens, worst case I have to flush the fuel lines

the_experience03 · 09-13-2006, 01:32 PM

I've never heard of using waste motor oil other than for a heater. It would make sense though since the furnaces that use the oil do so by atomizing it just as our injecters do.

As for the legality....it really is a gray area. Technically it's illegal on some accounts because no tax is paid. However, fuel additives of just about any kind are legal and the EPA doesn't frown on the idea of experimental fuels within reason. I guess it would really depends on your locality, but many rather public trips have been taken across the US in buses powered by veggie oil. If you don't get in any trouble after being on Good Morning America, chances are you're going to be ok. Most people I've talked to are more curious than anyhting else.

lapeer20m · 09-13-2006, 03:28 PM

the question about gasoline mixed with veggie was to run in a GAS MOTOR, not a diesel

i don't see why motor oil woulnd't run just fine mixed in with diesel, especially if it's filtered first. Should have about the same flamability properties as diesel, and we know that engine oil lubricates well.

wmah · 09-13-2006, 09:16 PM

There was and still is an of and on discusion on http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/44389 ... oil-3.html

Lots of user say not to add waste motor oil and a few that say they have seen it done in over the road trucks that will burn it off in a few days anyways.

hoser · 09-16-2006, 10:38 AM

Like a 2 stroke only with veggie oil I suspect you would suffer the same problems you would have by adding 2 stroke oil to your 'GAS' tank...

Adding oil would RAISE the octane level because it is HARDER to ignite, 93 octane is harder to ignite than 85 octane, starting fluid is about 40 octane.

lapeer20m · 09-17-2006, 08:08 AM

my understanding is that octane rating of fuel is actually a rating of how much a fuel can be compressed before it ignites. Theigh higher octane fuels can withstand greater pressures before igniting. This is important if you have a motor with a high compression ratio.

the_experience03 · 09-17-2006, 10:29 PM

That's my understanding too, Jason....as measured on a knockometer (not shitting)

Interestingly enough, octane refers to a hydrocarbon chain not present in gasoline, but gasoline acts like it.....go figure

ParadigmCrime · 01-24-2007, 12:10 PM

Ive mixed up to 20% gasoline in with my WVO at times when the oil just wasnt that great of quality but I was stuck in a bind. It works great when you end up with a bunch of crappy hydrogenated oil. Mix about 20% gasoline in, and MIX IT UP REAL GOOD. it will be thin enough to get through your filters now, and wont plug up your system. You also wont lose as much HP.

I notice when Ive run straight hydrogenated oil, my power dropped significantly, and it was a real pain!

SD26 · 01-13-2008, 04:07 AM

Old thread, sorry, but I'm hip deep in all this.

My bus is currently running a hybrid mix. In my approximately 37 gallon tank I have, one gallon of gasoline, two gallons of vegetable oil, and thirty four gallons of regular diesel. This mix is a bit new to me, but my seat of the pants feel is that the engine is running very smoothly, and I should have used more fuel. I need more time on her.

I have disposed of used engine oil in my diesel tank a number of times with no ill effects in tens of thousands of miles now. I even neglected the fuel filter to see if I'd have a problem. I didn't.

I am running a little vegetable oil with my gasoline in my Ford Taurus right now. This will be tank number three. I'm unsure of my results as of yet. Nothing is really impressing me as of yet. It's also cold out too.

reprobate · 01-13-2008, 08:39 PM

Let us know SD26, I for one am interested in your results. I know nothing of the veggie conversion side, but want to learn more once I'm done with the inside conversion.

Cumminsk2500 · 12-24-2022, 08:51 AM

Im mixing my used vegetable oil either with gas or diesel just wonder how often should i change my fuel filter ?

DeMac · 12-24-2022, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cumminsk2500

Im mixing my used vegetable oil either with gas or diesel just wonder how often should i change my fuel filter ?

Welcome to the Insane Asylum, Cumminsk2500. Glad to have you join us.

What type of bus & engine do you have?

Cumminsk2500 · 12-24-2022, 09:52 AM

Well they say 20% of gasoline or 50% diesel gas way cheaper so i wanna try gasoline and some pp tried with gas had no problem its that true ? And how often you have to change the fuel filter ?

nikitis · 06-21-2023, 04:07 PM

I don't think it will run well. If at all. Diesel doesn't combust as easily as gasoline, however if you used a tiny amount it should work still like 90% gas, 10% diesel.(May not be worth it in savings). The diesel also has detergents in it you may not want in your gas engine. It'll clean the intake but could also break off large bits of built up carbon and scuff up your piston walls (Potentially). If this was something you've done with a new engine from the start, might be more fine, but I wouldn't try it in an older engine with carbon already built up on the valves.

If we were talking the opposite, gas in a diesel engine, it will work except gasoline doesn't contain the detergents required by the engine, and it will run dry, and eventually ruin the engine after a tank or two.

Best to just run gas in a gasoline engine as it was designed to do. And Diesel in a Diesel engine as it was designed for.

La Camioneta · 06-21-2023, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikitis

I don't think it will run well. If at all. Diesel doesn't combust as easily as gasoline, however if you used a tiny amount it should work still like 90% gas, 10% diesel.(May not be worth it in savings). The diesel also has detergents in it you may not want in your gas engine. It'll clean the intake but could also break off large bits of built up carbon and scuff up your piston walls (Potentially). If this was something you've done with a new engine from the start, might be more fine, but I wouldn't try it in an older engine with carbon already built up on the valves.

If we were talking the opposite, gas in a diesel engine, it will work except gasoline doesn't contain the detergents required by the engine, and it will run dry, and eventually ruin the engine after a tank or two.

Best to just run gas in a gasoline engine as it was designed to do. And Diesel in a Diesel engine as it was designed for.

If you're chasing mileage, keep your tires properly inflated and drive slower is about all you can do.

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