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Old 06-02-2020, 07:47 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CO right now
Posts: 10
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Thomas Saf T Liner
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner
Engine: Cat 3126B/Allison 3060
Rated Cap: 71
1974 GMC 4905a

We are driving up to take a look at one of these this weekend. I have read through a lot of the forum and especially the coach questions and want to know the thoughts on this one.


She was (from our understanding) a band/football/activity bus bought by the school district in NE. There is no bathroom in the back. She has been fully gutted, does run and tires, etc are in good shape. Was looked over by a mechanic last year and things were fixed/taken care of. We will be getting the maintenance records with that. The only issue that was mentioned is that the A/C doesn't work and needs to be rewired per the mechanic.



So how much is too much to pay? We know that getting a coach is going to cost more and they are much pricier to maintain, but for us we are willing to take on the possible money pit (lol) yet hope it doesn't turn in to that. I have also visited the busnuts and bcm, but we would like to get as many opinions as possible. The more the better right?



Some specs -- it's a 4 speed manual, no odometer, no fuel guage (is that normal?) but the engine was replaced in 2006 by the school district and a odometer put on it during that time (mileage 200,000 and some change). I know there are things to look at on these things, checking to see where the exhaust blows, checking for rust, etc in the bays and checking around the drivers. Any other help would be great to have before we take a look at this thing.



My husband is more of a mechanic than I am. He does all the work on our vehicles both gas and diesel. And I have heard that these things are interesting to drive. So how different are these things from a regular manual that is driven today?



Again, any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!!


Thanks,
Crystal

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Old 06-02-2020, 08:00 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,762
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
There are a few here that would be able to tell you about those old GMC's. Cadillackid, Kubla, Cowlitzcoach, and maybe a few others. I'm sure one of them will chime in soon enough.
Sounds like a cool old bus. I don't know much about them personally.
Any pics?
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:14 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CO right now
Posts: 10
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Thomas Saf T Liner
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner
Engine: Cat 3126B/Allison 3060
Rated Cap: 71
some pic

Here are some pics we got from the owner ...


She has been doing work on it little by little. But still pretty much an open canvas for us!
Attached Thumbnails
bus1.jpg   engine.jpg   Front of Bus Air Lifted-1.jpg   inside.jpg   New Paneling-2.jpg  

Front Seats Passenger Side-1.jpg   Front Seats-1.jpg   Passenger Side Lifted-1.jpg  
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Old 06-02-2020, 08:28 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Whidbey Island, WA.
Posts: 1,109
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 3208 na boat anchor
Rated Cap: 2
That's a nice and straight looking Buffalo bus. It's best if that goes to a real gearhead. Someone who can drive a non-syncro'd 4-speed, and maintain a '71 series engine. I spent a lot of time with '71's and found them easy to work on. Other people seem to fear them. The air suspension system can be an issue.

You might check out the forum at Bus Conversion Magazine, those people can steer you where to go. Be forewarned, you are taking on an antique. The consensus in coach world is an automatic transmission and 4-stroke engine.
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Old 06-02-2020, 09:48 PM   #5
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,324
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
A friend of mine has one like it, he just rebuilt his engine. The engines do hold up very well, and have plenty of parts support.

Look on facebook for LaCroix Cruiser. He does have a number of interesting youtube videos as well. I think the facebook page has a link to them.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:52 AM   #6
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 388
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
Be sure to check out the other thread for my and the other posters replies. Take a deep breath first before diving in. You'll certainly thank me later. All GMC's aren't worth much at all today. And you'll never be able to sell it again. Ever. Trust me.

Today in Kalifornia you can snag MCI late 1990 vintage DL's which are 45ft long with Series 60 Detroit 4-strokes and Allison automatic transmissions for less than $13K, and any one of you can drive it and enjoy it. They drive like a big car but with better visibility. You just can't do that with any GMC stick shift. They are a whole new order of magnitude of difficulty and beyond most drivers ability today. Just don't. I know about this.

I just re-read your original post on the other thread and checked his asking price. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Don't do it. It's not worth anything even if it was all stock in perfectly restored running fully seated condition. Way Too much money. He's stuck with it and trying to pawn it off on you the inexperienced but well intentioned naive new guy. You'll regret it almost instantly and then YOU'LL be stuck with it. And it's a total nightmare to learn to drive and that's if it all is in good condition. My guess is that it has problems, they all do of this age, and will need to be fixed, if you can even find the parts. You just don't need this level of pain on your first attempt at a coach.

You seem like a nice family and believe me you can find much better and easier to manage coaches, if you must have one, for about the same price or less, that will be better to own and where everyone in the family can share in the joys of driving it. This should be your goal. NOT an Antique Vintage coach that is guaranteed to make the most hardened bus collector never consider it without having at least two or three parts buses already on hand. And don't even get me started on what it would be like on the road if you needed ANY kinds of repairs done on it. With kids, dogs, cats, and nothing but blank stares from everyone you were seeking help from. Please believe me. Don't do it.

Conversions always damage and distort buses and underlying items. No way to know and you really don't want to get involved with some other guys' idea of how to do something. There are many horror stories along these lines. Just don't, and take a cold shower and look for something a lot more recent of a more conventional arrangement as suggested.

Detroit 2-strokes are getting very hard to find experienced mechanics for and when work will be needed they can be a real problem getting fixed today. Especially the left hand turning engines in all the GMC's. If you don't know about that yet, then don't be surprised at all the other nasty surprises buried in the designs which were at one time the cat's meow, but which today is a true witch's cauldron. That other poster on the other thread got it right.
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:03 AM   #7
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Engine: TE 444
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That is a bus for a rich man, not saying it is not a nice bus but parts are becoming un-obtianium which means having them custom made, get on bus grease monkey, several people on there own buffalos
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:19 AM   #8
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Location: Eustis FLORIDA
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Year: 1999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubla View Post
That is a bus for a rich man, not saying it is not a nice bus but parts are becoming un-obtianium which means having them custom made, get on bus grease monkey, several people on there own buffalos
Sounds like a bad idea for a first bus. The non-synchro transmission doesn't sound fun.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:28 AM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Altus OK
Posts: 46
Year: 1978
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: Neoplan
Engine: 8.3, 653
Rated Cap: 36k
Like mentioned before the 8-71 4 speed is more an art to drive vs what we consider normal these days. It's literally strong enough to overheat and the lack of sincro's take perfect timing with every shift. These busses require super charger maintenance among other things they generally dont get towards the end of their service life.
Topping all that off is the age of all the components reaching their limits.
Beautiful bus though best owned by a mechanic.
There's actually a 68 silver star down the road from me they can give away.
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:27 PM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
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Year: 2000
Coachwork: Blue Bird
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Engine: TE 444
Rated Cap: 12
the engine is the easiest thing to fix, they made about a billion of them, the spicer 4 speed is no longer made or supported and no other transmission fits easily
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Old 06-05-2020, 09:19 PM   #11
Bus Crazy
 
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Location: Whidbey Island, WA.
Posts: 1,109
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 3208 na boat anchor
Rated Cap: 2
I hear clutch parts are to find, and that setting up the clutch can be a piece of work.
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Old 06-13-2020, 06:48 PM   #12
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Hey! Have you heard of "Bus Grease Monkey" on Youtube. Scott is a traveling mechanic that only works on the old busses like this one. He could tell you what to look for as far as serious problems. At the least it would be good to have his number!
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Old 06-13-2020, 09:24 PM   #13
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Location: Camden Maine
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Year: 1977
Coachwork: Gillig
Chassis: 426-13
Engine: DD 671N
Rated Cap: 52
It is typical form them not to have an odometer or a fuel gauge, or a tachometer for that matter. Learning how to up and down shift them without fighting the drive train takes some practice. I trained a lot of new drivers on 4905's back in the day. A good one is a delight.
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Old 06-14-2020, 12:43 AM   #14
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: CO right now
Posts: 10
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Thomas Saf T Liner
Chassis: Saf-T-Liner
Engine: Cat 3126B/Allison 3060
Rated Cap: 71
I have heard about him and checked out his YouTube, lots of helpful information. We decided to not get this one. She wanted too much for it and we just don't want to deal with the money pit it could turn out to be. We are going to go for a school bus instead, lots more info, a lot of choices and better access to parts/manuals, etc. Thanks!
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Old 06-14-2020, 08:39 AM   #15
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Location: Columbus Ohio
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Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Just got my 4502 off the lot and in storage! already working on sourcing the front glass for it and pasrts are on the way to get it fired up to run.. a few dings and dents heere and there.. rust is minimal and even the seats are in good shape..



Looking forward to learning the Detroit (and how to shift that 4 speed).. psyched about having a fishbowl with a Stick shift!



the Factory A/C is all still installed and intact as well..



-Christopher
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