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Old 09-21-2016, 04:28 PM   #1
Bus Nut
 
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bus length options

I searched for a thread I thought was here that showed all the buses measurements.

What I'm really after is does the truck nose bus have just as much space as a flat nose. I keep looking at buses and the truck nose seems to be coming up at 12 windows and the flat nose 14. I had been looking at a flat nose and found one at 14 windows then i read that some People had wished they had a truck nose for working on the beast. I want to work on mine when the times comes. I'm currently looking for the longest model bus with the tall roof if that is even a issue any more in a truck nose. Running a DT466 with tall gears and air conditioning (Is the high gearing common?). I have freight liner chassis motor home now with a C7 350hp and Allison 6 speed. gets 6 mpg. I'm hoping to drop the bus down in speed and cruise in the 50/55mph area and get more mpg?
I need about 32ft from the back door to the back of the drivers seat + or - 1 or 2 feet max. Is this a 12 window truck style and can some one tell me about roof height in buses. I have a lifting tool I need to install in the roof that I need to use.
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Old 09-21-2016, 04:59 PM   #2
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the longest dog-nose bus i have seen is 12 row.. (71 passenger)..

you can get 14 rows in a flat-nose..

there are 2 types of flat-nose.. an FE where the engine is in front.. you do most of your work by opening the doghouse inside the bus to fix stuff..

the other type of flst nose is an RE (rear engine).. some people like the rear engine the best for working on stuff ..

the longest school bus ive ever seen is 40 feet total..

if you go wit ha coach style (much more expensive).. like a Vanhool or a prevost you can get up to 45 feet in length..

-Christopher
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Old 09-21-2016, 05:24 PM   #3
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School buses typically max out at 40 feet, bumper-to-bumper. With a hood, you'll probably get ~30 feet behind the driver's seat (I think my IH/Carpenter bus has ~29 feet behind the driver's seat). Go for a flat-front and you'll get another 4-5 feet of usable space - and usually sitting in front of the steering axle, which will give you a better turning radius, but takes some getting used to.

As for a roof raise, I have yet to do it (and may not on my current bus) but someone here did theirs by welding in some nuts and using some threaded rods as a means of jacking up the roof, and holding it in place as they welded in the new additional sections. Looked very simple, inexpensive, but quite up to the task (as long as the bus did not have to be moved during the process). They simply turned each nut a few turns at a time, raising the roof more or less evenly as they went, until it was at the desired height.

A DT466 running 55 or so should get you somewhere around 9 MPG (some folks report nearly 10).
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:44 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo Jeff View Post
I searched for a thread I thought was here that showed all the buses measurements.

What I'm really after is does the truck nose bus have just as much space as a flat nose. I keep looking at buses and the truck nose seems to be coming up at 12 windows and the flat nose 14. I had been looking at a flat nose and found one at 14 windows then i read that some People had wished they had a truck nose for working on the beast. I want to work on mine when the times comes. I'm currently looking for the longest model bus with the tall roof if that is even a issue any more in a truck nose. Running a DT466 with tall gears and air conditioning (Is the high gearing common?). I have freight liner chassis motor home now with a C7 350hp and Allison 6 speed. gets 6 mpg. I'm hoping to drop the bus down in speed and cruise in the 50/55mph area and get more mpg?
I need about 32ft from the back door to the back of the drivers seat + or - 1 or 2 feet max. Is this a 12 window truck style and can some one tell me about roof height in buses. I have a lifting tool I need to install in the roof that I need to use.
My Bus, just got it, is a COE, forward control Brick...lol It has to the front wheel well to the back door 30 usable feet, and it is a 40' bus. Does that help?
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Old 09-21-2016, 11:04 PM   #5
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Rated Cap: 86 screaming Monsters
This all helps a lot. Then i just came across a DOG Nose love that name by the way. With 13 windows. 2003 International Dt466, Hollywood FL - 112594656 - CommercialTruckTrader.com to much money.
I plan to take my business on the road for a few years. 1 year to test the waters and see if I'm ready to sell my house and the rest will be what ever it is. I plan on doing that resort camping thing with as much boon docking and BLM parking down south as i can stand. so I am planning on a very super nice build. I'm told if it doesn't look really sharp thousand trails wont let you join. I have yet to talk to them about that. i see lots of conversions on their web sites in mci's and such. I think its converted school buses they fear? I need to find this out. Its actually about half of my parking plan with an Elite Member ship.
I am worried about that engine being stuck up in there one day when i need to do an in chassis on it. I plan to take a along every thing for it. It looks like its almost always wet cylinders leaking or rings? The cranks I see in the motor pictures seem to me to always look really good so I assume they go a very long time with the top end being freshened or replaced. I'm a mechanic so my only fear is access.
The traveling I plan on is only about 250 miles a month or so. The back of the bus is going to be my work shop.
This is what I'm looking to build http://centre.telemanage.ca/img/pix.nsf/images/d050f9a56a1c537585256ab90063bed6/$FILE/RIM00007a.JPG I think this is a excellent clean build.
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Old 09-22-2016, 05:05 AM   #6
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Florida buses are low-spec junk sold for insane prices to exporters.
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Old 09-22-2016, 07:20 AM   #7
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an in-fram rebuild on a DT engine doesnt invole removing the crank, you can leave it in unless you have had a catastrophic failure like a spun bearing and have to have the crank machined...

an inframe involves pullinfg the head off the top of the engine an d the oil pan off the bottom and all of the accessories off of the front..

not every part is replaced, some are just inspected..

you do always replace all bearings, perform a full recondition of the head, new cylinder sleeves , pistons, and rings.. many people take their injection pump to a specialist and have it inspected / tested to make sure its still good.. some automatically rebuild it..

same with the injectors themselves, though most ive known will go ahead and have their injectors rebuilt..

the turbo comes off and is inspected.. and in a true inframe all new gaskets and seals are installed..

oil pump comes out and is rebuilt.

the block , crank, and often the cam stay in the engine.

this all changes of course if you have a failure as opposed to just wearing out.. any bearing failure can and will leave metal all over inside the engine that needs to be dealt with...

like any engine a catastrophic fail like a thrown rod may very well destroy the engine block... deisels are noisy anyway so often people dont realize when they have a bearing failing, unless they are in tune to their engine sounds and oil pressure tendencies.....

-Christopher
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Old 09-22-2016, 10:57 AM   #8
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Thats what i meant about the cranks always looking good from what I have seen. Seems more than reasonable for a guy to pull this engine down himself. I helped my father do a in chassis on his Detroit in his Volvo semi truck years ago that we hauled our race car with. Seemed like the real issue was just moving the big parts around. We welded a engine hoist from harbor freight to the bucket of the back hoe and that was very helpful. Any one know what a shop charges for hours to do a "in chassis" on a dog nose verses a flat nose FE. The flat nose FE has the space I need inside. The dog nose sure seems like a road side breakdown would be a much better experience.

I cant believe how all over the place these engines are blown up in some way coming out of these auctions. I feel like the drivers must just finish the routes no matter what to avoid towing or transferring these little monsters. Its like the c7 cat I cant believe its not bullet proof and there broken all the time.
Its hard to believe a DT466 or C& wont take you 500,miles before a in chassis. I can see the Cummings being a 250k engine as its all just a little smaller. To full time RV a guy really only needs about 10k miles a year to go any where he wants.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:04 AM   #9
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East Coast CB

what does the WARD in the Amtran mean? I thought Amtran was the chassis manufacture. So at 78 seating you must have 13 window? Is the Amtran roof the extra 6" taller than I have read about. Picking out a bus to bid on in a auction site unseen with out knowing all the specs is difficult.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:06 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad_SwiftFur View Post
As for a roof raise, I have yet to do it (and may not on my current bus) but someone here did theirs by welding in some nuts and using some threaded rods as a means of jacking up the roof, and holding it in place as they welded in the new additional sections. Looked very simple, inexpensive, but quite up to the task (as long as the bus did not have to be moved during the process). They simply turned each nut a few turns at a time, raising the roof more or less evenly as they went, until it was at the desired height.
That's exactly how I did my raise, and it couldn't have been easier. With just basic welding skills you should be more than prepared for it. It took literally about a half hour to do the actual raising.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:16 AM   #11
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It doesn't look to tough I have seen a few done now. If i can figure out which buses have what roof height or if there all the same now I would know if I need to do a roof at all. I'm not that tall so its not a issue for myself. I can see where it would make for a lot more storage shelf's though. Ive seen it done with welding and riveted back together like factory. IT must just kill the MPG. Slanting it back from the front as I have seen some do seems like the way to go. Ramp it upon a angle a few feet back. I'm sure what ever I pick my neighbors will equally hate the idea when I get started.
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Old 09-22-2016, 11:57 AM   #12
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it seems to me the toughest part of most raises i see is in the transition piece if the bus is being raised behind the driver area, theres been a couple where they raised the whole roof from front to back.. im not sure how hard the metal work is at the front on one like that..

-Christopher
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo Jeff View Post
East Coast CB

what does the WARD in the Amtran mean? I thought Amtran was the chassis manufacture. So at 78 seating you must have 13 window? Is the Amtran roof the extra 6" taller than I have read about. Picking out a bus to bid on in a auction site unseen with out knowing all the specs is difficult.
Ward was bought out by International. They called the Amtran Genesis the "Ward Senator" on the east coast for the first couple years. In 93 they labeled them all as Genesis. Amtran have hi roof and regular models. Mine is about 6'2 and is the low model. I think mine is a 14 window. Passenger capacity and windows only loosely correlate. Mine had a couple small seats, so it could have been outfitted as an 80+ passenger if ordered as such, I'd imagine.
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:59 PM   #14
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you know whats wierd is I see short-window IC busses here.. i never saw those before... they look like mid 2000s model busses.. every other city i travel the IC busses are the taller variant.. I never even knew IC made a short window bus... I thought bluebird was the only one still offering that as an option on newer busses.

-Christopher
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:49 PM   #15
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There is a guy that bought most of the Nashville metro School buses. Look on craigslist NAshville. 2000's for anywhere from $3500 - $4800...
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:21 PM   #16
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Hi Guys

Please can I get some more information on how you did your roof raise?
Do you have any photos please?

Thank you
Howard
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:26 PM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Rated Cap: 86 screaming Monsters
I don't know the you tube link but there is a great video on there showing a bus get raised and the guy is master at metal rust removal. Puts a car rear window up in the front transition of the roof. Its brilliant to watch and the build is still going on.
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Old 09-23-2016, 06:59 PM   #18
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Hi Geo Jeff

Thank you!
I am looking on youtube now.
The biggest problem I have is I am doing this 100% on my own at the moment. So I am trying to work out if it is even possible...

Thank you!
Howard
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:04 PM   #19
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it is I have never done it but i do fabricate. were getting ready to build to buses one with a raised roof. Your just welding brackets on with all thread and nuts. then you cut between brackets and its held with the all thread. your run the nut up on it and the roof raises. set the height and start welding in your square steel stock then grind the brackets off holding the all thread brackets. once you see it you'll be surprised how easy it is.

I just found it its the best build i have seen. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS9...4nubgsjXBhHCYA
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Old 09-23-2016, 07:16 PM   #20
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