Marky's Conversion!

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

Oh, and my Thermoking uses R-22, not R-134.

Ahhh, the GOOD stuff.

Please upgrade it for the environment's sake. Think of the children. Just vent out the old freon, replace all the seals in the system, evacuate and recharge. It will work for several weeks.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

Oh, and my Thermoking uses R-22, not R-134.

yeah yours is running a compressor just like what we ran in building AC.. the transit bus compressors are RUGGED to say the least..

that one I just worked on was a 2004 / 2005 unit (the bus was built in 04 but as an 05).. it used a more standard vehicle compressor on the DT-466E engine.. its case was bigger and its numbers indicated its high capacity.. but it was not a Piston type compressor like yours is..

R22 was not used much in vehicles because of the High condensor temps and head pressures associated with road conditions.. but on a rooftop setup like yours they ran more fans and were away from engine heat for the most part.. 22 has / had better heat efficiency than 134A..

I think most school busses got 134A as thats what the average vehicle service shop will be equipped for.. not to mention 134A compressors are everywhere...

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Ahhh, the GOOD stuff.

Please upgrade it for the environment's sake. Think of the children. Just vent out the old freon, replace all the seals in the system, evacuate and recharge. It will work for several weeks.

the GOOD stuff in vehicles was R-12...

the new stuff that replaced R22 was R410 (now its on its way out).. R410a is a MUCH better refrigerant than R22 ever was.. its only downfall is it runs at much higher pressures so the tendency for leaks is higher..

im interested in ALL skoolies getting mini splits as they are R410A.. thus far it seems like the results are very positive that systems are springing leaks or over-temping on the condensor ..

the old GM EEVIR systems with R-12 and A6 compressors were Beautifully cold.. a closed-loop evaporator and a compressor that had more capacity than most bus compressors.. 276cc displacement.. you could easily push 80,000 BTU with that compressor...

-Christopher

[Rusty]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

im interested in ALL skoolies getting mini splits as they are R410A..

-Christopher

Please elucidate. Specific models, brands of splits. We all know you have forgotten more about refrigeration than we knew collectively.

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by Rusty

Ahhh, the GOOD stuff.

Please upgrade it for the environment's sake. Think of the children. Just vent out the old freon, replace all the seals in the system, evacuate and recharge. It will work for several weeks.

Upgrade to what? R-134?

Originally Posted by cadillackid

R22 was not used much in vehicles because of the High condensor temps and head pressures associated with road conditions.. but on a rooftop setup like yours they ran more fans and were away from engine heat for the most part.. 22 has / had better heat efficiency than 134A..

I think most school busses got 134A as thats what the average vehicle service shop will be equipped for.. not to mention 134A compressors are everywhere...

-Christopher

My understanding is that R-22 systems couldn't run R-134. So to "upgrade" would require replacing the whole unit. I don't have the money to change it.

Originally Posted by cadillackid

i got news for you... you wont cool a bus on the road with 2 minisplits.. for one, 1.5 tonners you need 240 volts for.. so your electrical system just got way more complex... and even as efficient as they are . they are HIGHLY INEFFICIENT when running at full-bore.. 2 1 tom 120 volters will beautifully cool a parked bus and be efficient at it.. because the bus has been cooled down.. or is parked in a nice shady area... mini's running at 80% capacity or less are VERY efficient.. 80%-120% (yes they will run over spec) they are not efficient.. Ive got 3 of them in modified form in my house and my GEM reads their energ usage.. if I do quick coold downs (which I do as I am a fresh air guy till i want to sleep).. then they pull LOTS of juice till they start backing down on compressor and outdoor fan speeds..

for your parked A/C i wouldnt use anything but minisplits if i were building it..
-Christopher

Ok, then 3 - 1 ton minisplits. In fact I was thinking about a custom A/C system like the lady in Nevada did (more conventional and not a water chiller system) with two compressors - one that is engine-driven and one (or more) that is battery/motor driven (using elements of the Thermoking). But, again, I'm not ready to take on the expense or even to engineer such a system.

[MarkyDee]

So this past Sunday before the storms rolled through Indiana I was able to put in some of Power Service' diesel additives, specifically the Diesel Fuel Supplement (anti-gel, anti-icing), the Clear Diesel (anti-contaminate, stabilizer), and Bio-Clean (biocide) into my bus' fuel tank. I also ran the engine to get the additives into the fuel system and filters.

Interestingly, the engine sounded pretty rough for about 10 minutes, then, suddenly, it sounded just fine with a steady cadence. I'm assuming that was when the additives hit the injectors....

Just wondering what the old-timers think about those products....

(BTW, I found a small, hand-powered liquid transfer pump on Amazon. It made getting the additives + diesel that I had in jerry cans into the tank really easy. That pump is definitely going in my "bus kit"!)

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

So this past Sunday before the storms rolled through Indiana I was able to put in some of Power Service' diesel additives, specifically the Diesel Fuel Supplement (anti-gel, anti-icing), the Clear Diesel (anti-contaminate, stabilizer), and Bio-Clean (biocide) into my bus' fuel tank. I also ran the engine to get the additives into the fuel system and filters.

Interestingly, the engine sounded pretty rough for about 10 minutes, then, suddenly, it sounded just fine with a steady cadence. I'm assuming that was when the additives hit the injectors....

Just wondering what the old-timers think about those products....

(BTW, I found a small, hand-powered liquid transfer pump on Amazon. It made getting the additives + diesel that I had in jerry cans into the tank really easy. That pump is definitely going in my "bus kit"!)

Diesel Kleen is one additive that isn't a snake oil. Old timers and almost everyone running a diesel use it. I swear by it and run it all the time.
When I bought my RYO bus, I put it in at the first fill up and I could totally tell when it made it to the injectors!

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Diesel Kleen is one additive that isn't a snake oil. Old timers and almost everyone running a diesel use it. I swear by it and run it all the time.
When I bought my RYO bus, I put it in at the first fill up and I could totally tell when it made it to the injectors!

I don't think I remember who told me about the additives, but I'm glad they did. And I'm glad I got the additives in before the cold temps set in. We're supposed to have lows in the upper 20s in a few nights, and mid 30s until then....

I still can't get over the abruptness of my engine's cadence change - and how much better it sounded - when the additives hit the injectors. I hope I ran the engine long enough to have enough of the additives in the separator(s), filter(s), etc. to protect the whole system....

Thanks ECCB for the report!

[cadillackid]

I run diesel KLEEN in both my busses.. I have 25 gallon tanks and run 16 oz every other tank of fuel on average (sometimes I forget).. I know for sure on my DT-360 it made a difference.. on my 444E Its hard to tell, that engine has always sounded "wierd" to me.. mainly because of hydraulic lifters and noisy injectors..

I havent tried any of the oil cleaning treatment..
-Christopher

[MarkyDee]

For your amusement I recount here my "learning moment" I had today:

I was about 25mi from home when the "hot engine" idiot light (and buzzer) came on (I have no engine temperature gauge on the dash). Since my experience with "hot engines" is to get them to the side of the road and shut them down pronto (or you have a damaged engine), that is just what I did. So here I am on the side of a 6-lane highway wondering "oh great, I just damaged my engine somehow."

Well, after talking to the guy who sold me the bus (man, I'd buy another from him), my bus has 3 "levels" of hot-engine'ness. The first really no more than a warning, i.e. "find some place safe to park and let 'er cool off" - which is where I was when I pulled to the shoulder. The second derates the power so that you can only go 25mph or so. The third is a complete shutdown.

So, I didn't have to pull off so quickly - I could have continued to the next exit and found a nice parking lot (which is where I found the problem). By the time I did all that the engine cooled to the point the idiot light went off.

As it turns out the one belt that the mechanic didn't replace earlier this year was the belt that turned the hydraulic pump that feeds the cooling fan.... Well, it needs to be replaced now....

So, I turned around and headed back to the mechanics. I took it easy and the "hot engine" light never came on again. Thank God that it was about 35F this morning....

I'm glad I'm learning these things while only tens-of-miles from home instead of hundreds or thousands....

[Twigg]

Glad you got away with that one

It's worth noting that in many cases you can get the heat out of an engine quicker by leaving it idling with all the heaters on. It requires that the fan is running to pull air through the radiator.

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by Twigg

Glad you got away with that one

Yes, I am glad, too. I was concerned.

Originally Posted by Twigg

It's worth noting that in many cases you can get the heat out of an engine quicker by leaving it idling with all the heaters on. It requires that the fan is running to pull air through the radiator.

Generally I'd agree. And I did let it idle for a few minutes before I shut it off. The reason I shut it down was the fact that the one heater core I have - the one that heats the driver / defrosts the windshield - was blowing cold air. Since the outside temp was about 35F or 36F, I didn't think I had anything to loose. (Boy, my toes were frosty!)

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

For your amusement I recount here my "learning moment" I had today:

I was about 25mi from home when the "hot engine" idiot light (and buzzer) came on (I have no engine temperature gauge on the dash). Since my experience with "hot engines" is to get them to the side of the road and shut them down pronto (or you have a damaged engine), that is just what I did. So here I am on the side of a 6-lane highway wondering "oh great, I just damaged my engine somehow."

Well, after talking to the guy who sold me the bus (man, I'd buy another from him), my bus has 3 "levels" of hot-engine'ness. The first really no more than a warning, i.e. "find some place safe to park and let 'er cool off" - which is where I was when I pulled to the shoulder. The second derates the power so that you can only go 25mph or so. The third is a complete shutdown.

So, I didn't have to pull off so quickly - I could have continued to the next exit and found a nice parking lot (which is where I found the problem). By the time I did all that the engine cooled to the point the idiot light went off.

As it turns out the one belt that the mechanic didn't replace earlier this year was the belt that turned the hydraulic pump that feeds the cooling fan.... Well, it needs to be replaced now....

So, I turned around and headed back to the mechanics. I took it easy and the "hot engine" light never came on again. Thank God that it was about 35F this morning....

I'm glad I'm learning these things while only tens-of-miles from home instead of hundreds or thousands....

When you start to run hot, don't immediately shut it off. Let it idle down for a while.

[MarkyDee]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

When you start to run hot, don't immediately shut it off. Let it idle down for a while.

I assume that is the advice Twigg was trying to tell me as well, that I just rolled right past....

Since I don't know diesels all that well, I will for now on. I assume that 10-20 minutes is a "safe" time? I know that "it depends" - but I don't have an engine temp gauge on my dash - yet - so I don't have empirical data to work from at the moment.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

I assume that is the advice Twigg was trying to tell me as well, that I just rolled right past....

Since I don't know diesels all that well, I will for now on. I assume that 10-20 minutes is a "safe" time? I know that "it depends" - but I don't have an engine temp gauge on my dash - yet - so I don't have empirical data to work from at the moment.

Yeah fifteen mins or so would be what I'd do. Shutting it off immediately is bad because everythings hot and suddenly there no more coolant flow.
Go all out, get a coolant temp gauge AND an EGT gauge.

[cadillackid]

there are times to let it run and times to not... first thing you do is assess how it got hot.. I realize you have no gauge.. so its tough to tell.. but first thing is do you smell coolant? do you notice that you are losing voltage as well (belt or pulley loss).. do you hear the fan?

without a gauge and in this case I may very well have done the same action... it gets hot.. no gauge.. I dont hear the fan... so I take the time to turn on the heaters to see if I have coolant circulation or do i shut it down ?

if your water piump isnt spinning or you've lost alot of coolant, shutting it down *IS* the right thing to do ....

if you have a gauge and you have a slow progression of temperature rise. then letting it idle down is the correct thing to do...

when I lost the serp belt in my bus, i watched the temp shoot from 195 to 207 in a matter of a minute.. saw my voltage on 11.7. so I figured id tossed the belt.. I shut the engine down and as I coasted down I thought of turning on my heater circulation pump and the heater fans so i did so.. as it kept coolant pumping through the engine and cooled it down..

-Christopher

[Twigg]

Originally Posted by MarkyDee

I assume that is the advice Twigg was trying to tell me as well, that I just rolled right past....

Since I don't know diesels all that well, I will for now on. I assume that 10-20 minutes is a "safe" time? I know that "it depends" - but I don't have an engine temp gauge on my dash - yet - so I don't have empirical data to work from at the moment.

Well the temp. gauge helps out here (fit one). You should see the temperature coming down while idling. If it continues to rise, shut it off.

The first 5 minutes of idling serves another purpose. It allows the turbo to cool enough so that heat-soak doesn't kill the grease in the bearings.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

there are times to let it run and times to not... first thing you do is assess how it got hot.. I realize you have no gauge.. so its tough to tell.. but first thing is do you smell coolant? do you notice that you are losing voltage as well (belt or pulley loss).. do you hear the fan?

without a gauge and in this case I may very well have done the same action... it gets hot.. no gauge.. I dont hear the fan... so I take the time to turn on the heaters to see if I have coolant circulation or do i shut it down ?

if your water piump isnt spinning or you've lost alot of coolant, shutting it down *IS* the right thing to do ....

if you have a gauge and you have a slow progression of temperature rise. then letting it idle down is the correct thing to do...

when I lost the serp belt in my bus, i watched the temp shoot from 195 to 207 in a matter of a minute.. saw my voltage on 11.7. so I figured id tossed the belt.. I shut the engine down and as I coasted down I thought of turning on my heater circulation pump and the heater fans so i did so.. as it kept coolant pumping through the engine and cooled it down..

-Christopher

Sage advice, my friend!

[EastCoastCB]

I'm going to get a trans temp, egt, and every gauge I can think of on my newest bus!

[Tango]

Don't forget the altimeter and turn and bank indicator!