School bus conversion basics help

Kathos7 · 03-23-2015, 10:18 AM

Looking to purchase a bus and convert it, and while I am sure this has been covered before, what are the basic things I should be looking for in a potential bus? I was looking at this bus

1960 GM4104 RV

But really have no idea what to ask about as the information listed is scarce.

If someone could just point me to the right thread, or if so inclined go into it right here.

Thanks.

HolyBus · 03-23-2015, 11:46 AM

I don't know much about that type of bus but maybe the type of brakes. Age of tires and if they are retread or not. Condition of the suspension/airbags. I love the storage and that plumbing has been run. I haven't cut a hole in mine yet. That is the point of no return for me. If I cut a hole in the floor for plumbing, I might as well jump in and finish the bus completely and quickly.

EastCoastCB · 03-23-2015, 12:12 PM

The price is certainly attractive.
I love the look of the old GMC's.
Doesn't seem to mention much at all about mechanical condition. Look for leaks, caked on gunk, tire condition.
Tire condition is something everyone has their own take on.
I basically look at the tires and ask myself "would these make it home?" Thats about all I care about at the price point I can afford to shop at. 6 new tires installed will cost around 1500-2000 depending on where you get them and all that.
If it looks more or less straight and solid, runs and drives, and the seller is negotiable a bit, I'd forego a few shortcomings on a bus like that.

How tall are you? Headroom is something to consider on ANY bus you look at depending on your height. Or comfort level.

On vintage buses, look at the trim pieces and glass and make sure anything that looks like it could be hard to find is there.

Idk, that's all I can think of.

ALWAYS try to haggle the price down on anything you buy, that's what I think.

opus · 03-23-2015, 01:30 PM

2 strokes are high maintenance these days as well as its getting more difficult to find mechanics for them. Finding engine oil for them is getting to be a challenge as well.
Its a lot more different than maintaining a school bus. Just so you know....

bansil · 03-23-2015, 04:05 PM

I have seen that bus for sale, either here or BCM website or maybe it was busnuts

I bought a skoolie because I couldnt afford an OTR bus due to 2strokes in them, if you drop an engine on the road, you either bandaid it or fix it and I dont have $25K laying around to fix it right (now it could live another million miles)

Kathos7 · 03-23-2015, 04:59 PM

Thanks for all the feedback. I didn't realize it was a two stroke so I'll probably not go with it. Will keep searching in the meantime.

Someone told me to avoid Bluebird, does anyone else share this sentiment?

opus · 03-23-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathos7

Someone told me to avoid Bluebird, does anyone else share this sentiment?

That was probably heard wrong or spoken wrong. BB would be our better bet out of all of them.

Kathos7 · 03-23-2015, 05:52 PM

Also I was hoping to be able to do most of the maintenance myself, so I was aiming for an older model that predates computer controlled anything. Any clue what age range (or motor or vehicle shape or make or model) would facilitate easier maintenance?

EastCoastCB · 03-23-2015, 05:52 PM

For what we are using them for, they are all virtually the same. Look for the engine and transmission you want and go from there.

Kathos7 · 03-23-2015, 08:49 PM

what about https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/4937040526.html

claydbal · 03-24-2015, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathos7

what about https://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/4937040526.html

but but but , you didnt want the newer electronic controlled drivetrain.?

EastCoastCB · 03-24-2015, 06:13 AM

Looks like a decent start, but its only got a 444E pushing it. That's a lot of bus for that engine, imo.
Price is certainly reasonable and its pretty clean looking. If you never plan to hit any mountain grades, it may do just fine.

HolyBus · 03-24-2015, 07:47 AM

Mine is an 88 Bluebird. No computer control. No glowplugs, and the only other wires seem to be for lights, wipers etc. Its all galvanized and I'd like to meet the guy that says to avoid them.

nat_ster · 03-24-2015, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opus

That was probably heard wrong or spoken wrong. BB would be our better bet out of all of them.

Blue Birds are built better than Thomas, ward, ect. They use one piece panels, one piece wheel wells, ect.

Nat

Kathos7 · 03-24-2015, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claydbal

but but but , you didnt want the newer electronic controlled drivetrain.?

Yeah I'm just impatient. I'll bide my time until a good one comes around. Is there an easy way to find out what engine some of these buses have? seems like when people post the ads they know nothing about the bus and its hard to tell. I'd never had known that first one was two stroke if someone hadn't pointed it out.

Like this one : 1979 MCI

claydbal · 03-25-2015, 07:55 AM

kathos, when i was looking for a bus, i knew i wanted a dt. so i scoured the net looking for ways to ID them. most have a label on the engine declaring what it is and the HP rating.

armed with notes, i could ask one question before tAking to the road to look at a bus. "is the engine a v-8 or a straight inline 6?" inline 6 in an IH chassis meant it was a DT!

you will learn about the brazilian ford, the IH v-8s and so forth and be ready to buy whatever it is you want. there is a reason most look for the IH chassis, as parts are readily available and they are super reliable.

also, take time to learn how to ID the transmissions. and how to look for retarders on the driveshaft, and auxilary heaters and such. then you will know the perfect bus for you. cosmetics can be fixed, poor drivetrain choices cannot!

cowlitzcoach · 03-25-2015, 12:07 PM

When shopping for a bus you will discover there are as many opinions as there are people on the internet, many of whom purport to be experts.

As to which bus is best you will have the same sort of built in bias in regards to IC, BB, or Thomas as you will asking people which is better Ford, Chevy, or Mopar.

Before you really start shopping you need to determine which type of bus you want--school, transit, or motorcoach.

Each type has definite pluses and minuses.

For the school bus the number one plus is they have built millions of them so their price is relatively cheap. Their big minus is they are built for the most part to go to and from school. As a result they don't always go highway speed.

For the tranist bus the number one plus is they have the greates inside volume of any bus on the road. Some are as high as 96" and most are 102" wide. Their big minus is most left the factory with lots of stops and gos in mind so many of them tach out below 60 MPH and changing gear sets in transit buses can be very expensive.

For motorcoaches the two big pluses for them is they were designed and built to go long distances at highway speeds and they all have huge under the floor luggage comparments. Their really big minus is they are built out of heavy duty components that cost really big $$$$ when something goes wrong. Three axles cost a lot more to maintain than two axles.

Once you determine which type of bus you prefer then you can start getting into specifics as to which power package or manufacturer you want.

I have my personal preferences as to which bus is the best built bus out on the road today. Regardless of which one I think is the best the one I like the least is Blue Bird for a lot of reasons. What I dislike about the BB the most is I really do not like the little "visors" over every side window instead of a drip rail.

Once you determine what are your have to haves and what are your nice to haves you can then start shopping seriously. When you get to that point ther are certain things you need to look at very carefully.

The power package needs to be in good condition. Unless you can get the bus for scrap prices, if the power package is no good you can end up spending anywhere from 2X to 10X the purchase price to get the engine and transmission back up to snuff.
Make sure the power package is adequate for your purposes. The IC RE bus you posted with the T444E would be okay for puttering around close to home a couple of times per year. That little engine and transmission would drive you nuts the first time you came to a real hill and had to go up the hill at less than 20 MPH.
Rust is VERY bad. Going out west and paying a premium for a rust free bus will save you much more in time and $$$ than buying a cheap rust bucket from back east.
If you are height challenged inside ceiling height is not a big issue. But if the choice comes down to a bus with 9" windows and a 74" interior height or a bus with 12" windows and a 78" interior height, go with the higher ceiling.
Unless you plan on driving the bus lots of miles right away don't worry about the condition of the tires. Most RV tires die of old age and sun damage long before the tread gets anywhere close to worn out.

If I can help you in your search please let me know.

Good luck and happy trails.

Kathos7 · 03-26-2015, 02:34 PM

Thanks for all the info cow, I appreciate you taking the time to write all that. I will keep that all in mind during my search. With luck I'll eventually chronicle my build process here. Thanks for all the input everyone.

EastCoastCB · 03-26-2015, 04:08 PM

I have to say that I do think its a gross overstatement to imply that all the east coast buses are cheap rust buckets.
They will cost less, but they aren't all rust buckets here.

Kathos7 · 04-07-2015, 03:21 PM

Hey all been on the look out wanted to know what you guys though about this bus

I asked the guy about rust no rust on undercarriage, he was unable to tell me anything about the transmission other than its automatic.

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