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Old 01-27-2022, 07:08 PM   #21
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 348
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
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Rated Cap: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
ha!! you know it glas is always a thing.. with busses theres zero aftermarket support.. need a curved glass for a 57 chevy? theres plenty since its a popular vehicle to restore.



I suppose if there were engineering drawings around with exact sizing someone would have a better chance at making these windshields..



whats even sadder is that when we resuced a bunch of busses from a failed museum attempt in ohio during late 2019 is that there about 6 sets of formerly good fishbowl windshields that bad been apparently neatly stacked inside one of the busses.. however at one point that bus had been towed someplace and the glass wasnt secured so all of it was destroyed..



hey while you are here.. what do you recommend for a starter on a detroit? I hear some people say a chevy gear reduction starter fits.. some say stick with factory or have OEM unit rebuilt.. what are your thoughts?

I think Detroit Diesel has been using a geared type starter for a while and I've seen a couple in some Crowns, but Chevy??, seriously??. I know geared starters are made for the diesel engine applications though. Can't see how a car starter could ever do the job of cranking a high compression diesel engine. My impression and what I've been told by the guys who know about this at J&R is to keep the old style non-geared OEM one since they crank the engine harder and seem to last longer. The geared one's can be good too but I'm a dinosaur when it comes to things like this. I like to know I've got that old heavy, and long, original starter in there. They can be a little hard to find today, thus scrounging around for take-off parts from a hangar queen. Then if needed have it re-built by a qualified shop. Should be golden after all that effort. But that's just me.

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Old 01-27-2022, 07:54 PM   #22
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,547
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
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Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
I think Detroit Diesel has been using a geared type starter for a while and I've seen a couple in some Crowns, but Chevy??, seriously??. I know geared starters are made for the diesel engine applications though. Can't see how a car starter could ever do the job of cranking a high compression diesel engine. My impression and what I've been told by the guys who know about this at J&R is to keep the old style non-geared OEM one since they crank the engine harder and seem to last longer. The geared one's can be good too but I'm a dinosaur when it comes to things like this. I like to know I've got that old heavy, and long, original starter in there. They can be a little hard to find today, thus scrounging around for take-off parts from a hangar queen. Then if needed have it re-built by a qualified shop. Should be golden after all that effort. But that's just me.

someone had told me there were chevy diesel starters (supposedly) that would fit the old DD's.. I have 2 original starters that are no good.. one may just be a solenoid as itas motor ohms out as good and spins.. the other has an open motor..



im of the same mind if there is a reputable rebuild shop id rather have an original rebuilt.. we lost the shop I used ot use years ago.. owner sold it.. new people ran it into the ground till it died.. typical story in today;s world..
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Old 01-27-2022, 10:04 PM   #23
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Posts: 348
Year: 1989
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Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
someone had told me there were chevy diesel starters (supposedly) that would fit the old DD's.. I have 2 original starters that are no good.. one may just be a solenoid as itas motor ohms out as good and spins.. the other has an open motor..



im of the same mind if there is a reputable rebuild shop id rather have an original rebuilt.. we lost the shop I used ot use years ago.. owner sold it.. new people ran it into the ground till it died.. typical story in today;s world..

Hang on to those originals and someday you'll find a qualified re-builder who can do it. They are worth the effort in the long run.
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Old 01-28-2022, 07:59 AM   #24
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,547
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown_Guy View Post
Hang on to those originals and someday you'll find a qualified re-builder who can do it. They are worth the effort in the long run.

agreed! my current plan is since it appears the motor works on one and solenoid works on the other is to make one good one out of 2 bad ones.. or it could be i just need to pull the solenoid apart and clean the contacts..



but yeah I rarely ever get rid of good original parts.. esp for these type busses.. if nothing else there are good useable parts that someone can use even if i cant
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Old 01-28-2022, 08:20 PM   #25
Bus Nut
 
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 348
Year: 1989
Coachwork: Crown Coach
Chassis: 40ft 3-axle 10spd O/D, Factory A/C
Engine: 300hp Cummins 855
Rated Cap: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
agreed! my current plan is since it appears the motor works on one and solenoid works on the other is to make one good one out of 2 bad ones.. or it could be i just need to pull the solenoid apart and clean the contacts..



but yeah I rarely ever get rid of good original parts.. esp for these type busses.. if nothing else there are good useable parts that someone can use even if i cant
Love those old GM/Delco parts used throughout the GM product lines. All were meant to be opened up and repaired/adjusted in the field. Even the relays and other special purpose widgets they designed for the vehicles were able to be opened and repaired. All that info and details are in the GM coach manuals. Very detailed and adjustment specs for most everything. Meant to be repaired.

Funny story from my misspent past. One year at the annual Grad Night (multiple nights over about a 10 day period really) Parties at Dizzyland, one of our companies 4104's wouldn't crank and start. It was pretty obvious that the starter solenoid mounted on the starter wasn't engaging the battery leads to provide full current to the starter. You could actually kick it with your foot to engage the starter solenoid in case the low current side wasn't energizing the coil. There was a convenient part of the clutch lever exposed so a foot could help things along. Very nice touch. But even this wouldn't crank the engine.

Anyway, it wasn't passing the high current so I opened the solenoid cover and removed the large copper disk that was the contractor itself between the high current contacts. I cleaned it up, got rid of crap and corruption obviously insulating it from passing current across the contacts, brightened it up and put it back in place and reassembled the housing. Gave it a start and it worked like new.

All this while waiting for our passengers to come out at about 0500hr or so. It's an all night vigil with, at the time, many hundreds of buses from all over the State coming in on multiple nights from different High Schools for Grad Night at Dizzyland.

Back in the days when the drivers had a clue, and the buses were easy, and meant to be worked on. Those were the days, the buses, and Grad Nights, are pretty much all gone now. The world has changed.

But I've got my Crowns and will eventually get me a coach, or two, so I can keep them alive and in good running condition for all to see how things were in the simpler, non-computerized days of 'yore.

By all means you should mix and match to gain a working starter ready to go against the day of need. You'll thank yourself later.
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Old 01-28-2022, 09:23 PM   #26
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
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Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
ive heard more than one story of a driver making a repair while passengers loaded or unloaded.. yeah exactly when everyone knew at least something about how their bus or truck worked and everyone had a box of at least basic tools behind the seat...


to show you the sad state of affairs we are in.. a couple years ago I was in my Jeep.. brand new.. my "low tire light went off".. and I thought "wtf this new truck the tire system malfunctioned".. then I started to hear "that flat tire sound"... so I pulled over, got out to look around and surew enough my left rear was flat..



about that time a cop stopped.. got out of his car and stared at my flat tire.. "what you gonna do?"..


'im gonna put the spare on.'


"what?"


'im gonna put the spare on'


"you can do that?"


'yep' - as im suiti9ng up in my coveralls and pulling out my 1/2" dewalt impact


"you sure you can get the spare on OK?"


'I should be fine' - spare is lowered and ive rapped the lugs loose


"you dont need me to call you triple A or a tow truck?"




I kept on going.. he put his car toward the freeway with the flasher lights on, I put the spare on, thanked him and went on my way....


it really seemed like he had never seen anyone put a spare tire on...



as a kid even my grandma put on her own spare (I was little and prob not much help though I did screw the nuts off and on)...
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Old 01-30-2022, 09:59 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
ive heard more than one story of a driver making a repair while passengers loaded or unloaded.. yeah exactly when everyone knew at least something about how their bus or truck worked and everyone had a box of at least basic tools behind the seat...


to show you the sad state of affairs we are in.. a couple years ago I was in my Jeep.. brand new.. my "low tire light went off".. and I thought "wtf this new truck the tire system malfunctioned".. then I started to hear "that flat tire sound"... so I pulled over, got out to look around and surew enough my left rear was flat..



about that time a cop stopped.. got out of his car and stared at my flat tire.. "what you gonna do?"..


'im gonna put the spare on.'


"what?"


'im gonna put the spare on'


"you can do that?"


'yep' - as im suiti9ng up in my coveralls and pulling out my 1/2" dewalt impact


"you sure you can get the spare on OK?"


'I should be fine' - spare is lowered and ive rapped the lugs loose


"you dont need me to call you triple A or a tow truck?"




I kept on going.. he put his car toward the freeway with the flasher lights on, I put the spare on, thanked him and went on my way....


it really seemed like he had never seen anyone put a spare tire on...



as a kid even my grandma put on her own spare (I was little and prob not much help though I did screw the nuts off and on)...
I'm always grateful for 2 things, 1st that I grew up on a farm and 2nd that my dad said that if I couldn't do a simple tire change then I could go on walking for transportation.
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Old 01-30-2022, 01:00 PM   #28
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 17,547
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorthair View Post
I'm always grateful for 2 things, 1st that I grew up on a farm and 2nd that my dad said that if I couldn't do a simple tire change then I could go on walking for transportation.

maybe thats the thing now.. the Dads of today have no idea how to teach their sons simple such things.. perhaps to their credit are the cars that no longer ship with spares.. everything you buy has a label that says "try to fix this and you will get hurt.. aka dont open it up.. just throw it away"...


when I was growing up (im 53), it was every dad or grandad's delight to buy his son / grandson their first very own tool-box.. and as boys we delighted in being sure to pull those shiny red / gray / black / green toolboxes out the minute dad went out to the garage to fix something.... im just a old dude I guess in thinking every boy would find interest in whats behind the panels and covers and hoods...
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Old 01-30-2022, 03:15 PM   #29
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Join Date: May 2016
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Engine: Cummins 855, 400 HP or more!
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Talking

Hello Mary,

My PD4106 had the same problem. There are two power relays in the silver box above the motor. There is a set of cables that connect these relays, to each other AND to the Starter Solenoid. I replaced all the cables and both relays and the entire bus came back to life and started right up, like it was new again. I later discovered the start problem waqs NOT the power problem, in the process of finding the start problem, I nudged something that reconnected something else and the bus came back to life. There are also power relay fuses and fusible links on SOME buses, put there by bus shops and not original equipment to the bus. I found one next to the turn signal flasher that went south and killed the entire power system to the bus. A good circuit tester will find the offending pieces. The last time I used a 4oz. hammer to find the offending relay. I tapped every relay until the power came back on, replaced the relay and eliminated the problem. Some times the 'African Method' works best. You know, the 'Ubangy, itworky!' method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopinpuddles View Post
Hi folks,

I've been lurking here for a while and this is my first post. I've got a beautiful "fishbowl" transit bus (converted by Coachman into an RV in the 70's) that's been starting perfectly since I purchased it about 7 months ago. It's just sitting while I renovate the inside,

Yesterday I went to start it after it sat for about a month and something weird happened. It's been cold and wet out so I figured it would take a bit to get it going. I have a switch on the battery that I turn off when I'm not starting the bus so it doesn't drain while it sits. I turned the batteries on like usual, I put it in "Day" mode like usual and pushed the start button. It started to rev like it normally does but wouldn't quite turn over. I gave it a rest for a min and tried again (this is normal for this old girl to be sluggish after sitting so I wasn't worried). It continued to rev and my partner sprayed some lighter fluid into the intake (per the previous owner's recommendation for sluggish startups). However after revving a bit longer without turning over it just completely stopped. Everything stopped. The headlights won't turn on nor the blinkers. There's usually a buzzer going while the air is inflating when the knob is in Day mode to start it, but there is no buzz when I change the settings from day to night to park. There is no clicking when I try to start. It's like the electrical went out completely.

There are two brand new batteries. I checked their life and they still have juice. One showed about 80% and one about 70%. I checked the battery cables as far back as I could and I don't see any sign of pests chewing through wires. I don't see any sign of electrical burn out/frying as far as I can see but the web of wiring is pretty messy looking both in the driver side panel and the engine so it's hard for me to see which wires are still active after so many years of previous owners' updates.

The only thing I can think might be happening is a blown battery fuse? I haven't yet been able to find the manual for this bus, so I have no idea where the battery fuse would be at this point but I'm hunting.

Does anyone have any ideas on what could be going on and where I should start looking to troubleshoot? Thanks for your time!

Mary
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