1995 Thomas Westcoast-ER

[KlingonFiero]

Hi all.


I just got my first bus. it is a 1995 Thomas WestCoast-ER. Its a 40ft beast!



The data plaque in the bus is all but completely faded. I think it says 3116 - 250 and it looks like it has a MT643. No idea the rear diff gear ratio yet. Climbing under the bus tomorrow...



It drove fantastically at first, climbed hills and purred right along.



After a 100 miles or so, it just decided to not want to accelerate.

If i was patient, it would slowly get up to highway speed and would easliy maintain 55 to 60mph, unless I started up an incline, then drop pretty quickly in speed.

This is NOT the normal speed reduction from driving a large heavy bus.



From a dead stop, it sounds off to me, not lugging as such, but not right. hard to describe as it is 40ft behind me!

it takes half a mile or more to get up to speed on a flat road.



It starts and stops just fine. It will fast idle no problem. It will rev up in neutral just fine.
I am thinking fuel filter. I will check the air filter as well.

It sat for 3 months or so before being sent from Los Angeles School district to the surplus yard.


Where do I really start looking for info on my setup?

I am an old Chevy mechanic and should be able to handle a diesel, once I learn the terms and differences. No spark? engine cant run with Spark! LOL


Also, there is a hose with what appears to be a standard schrader valve mounted to a bracket on the "Start Box" it is hissing air. I can only hear it after engine is shut down, of course.

Any idea what this might be for?



I have been on the internet all day looking for info, not much luck. I cant even fully determine which exact fuel filter I need. (BF5813 is what is on there right now)

And, when i cracked the water seperator valve on it, it didn't let any fluid out, it did make fun gurgling sounds for a second or two, What am I doing wrong with this?



Hopefully that all makes sense!

[EastCoastCB]

First change your fuel filter(s). Try and get a view into your fuel tank and see what the condition looks like in there.
Add some anti-gel/diesel additive. DieselKleen or HotShots. I use hotshots fuel additive and their oil additive.

If the basic stuff doesn't work try and find a Cat shop or a diesel guy who knows the 3116 fuel system.

[KlingonFiero]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

First change your fuel filter(s). Try and get a view into your fuel tank

If the basic stuff doesn't work...

I guess I'll be safe putting the same part number fuel filter back as a replacement. Going to crawl under tomorrow to make sure I only have the one filter.
I found that filter on Amazon for $20 shipped to me. (Local napa wants $57 for it. Plus an hour round trip of driving)
.
I do have an endoscope camera for my phone, hopefully diesel doesnt eat it up!
.
I'll be watching some more of the AdeptApe videos (thanks for the link in my other post!)
.
Just figuring out what the basics are when it comes to diesel is part of the fun, right? Right???

[EastCoastCB]

Get a genuine Cat filter if you can. I got mine for $20 at the dealer. Pretty sure they're the same filter. I can get my # tomorrow.... but google it if you want.

[KlingonFiero]

Well, that's part of my issues. Ive been unable to fully determine the correct part numbers. My googling has revealed 4 possible filters. Which one it needs depends on if I have two filters or just one, or if I have a fuel primer, I dont think I do, I will verify that tomorrow.
.
Thanks ECCB!

[Sehnsucht]

Fuel filter is a good first step. Also, can you hear the turbo spin up when you accelerate? Or winding up as the engine load increases at the beginning of a grade? Just based on your description of the symptoms I suspect it's not functioning properly because lack of power is different than loss of power from fuel starvation. Just another thing to consider as you narrow down the culprit.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by KlingonFiero

Well, that's part of my issues. Ive been unable to fully determine the correct part numbers. My googling has revealed 4 possible filters. Which one it needs depends on if I have two filters or just one, or if I have a fuel primer, I dont think I do, I will verify that tomorrow.
.
Thanks ECCB!

Pretty sure this is the one I've got but I can say for sure in the am. But mine's not the exact engine as yours. Says they share a fuel filter though.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/CATERPILLAR...-/182450963300

My fuel/water separator is a Napa brand.

[KlingonFiero]

I was very aware of the turbo spooling up on demand. It is a little hard to hear, but definitely audible. It is supposed to be a higher pitch whine, yes?
.
Definetly NOT the filter behind my rear start button box. It's got the water drain on it.
I'll look in the morning to see if there is another filter hiding somewhere.

[rossvtaylor]

As I was reading your symptoms, I also immediately thought "fuel filter" after it's been sitting for a while and the fuel quality is in question...

[KlingonFiero]

Well that was fun!
Just got done crawling through,over,and under the bus.

Only one fuel filter, and it has the water separator built into it. No visible fuel primer either... Joy.
I did get it start draining water out of the filter finally. At least I think it was water. Very clear with just a hint of diesel.
.
Bus still idles great.
.
Air filter is BAD! Super filthy and about half the pleats are crushed in on themselves. Probably not good...
.
I have 4 air tanks. One big and one small on each side. Is that normal?
I also couldn't find a airdryer. I hope this means I have an automatic one hiding somewhere...

Behind an outside access door (by the front door) there is a 4 port air outlet. One is labeled wet and the other three are labeled dry.

The Wet line has a quick disconnect on it for an air tool line. Bonus!!!

Off to search the interwebs for various filters.

[12vtech]

I have a 98 Thomas RE, our bus might be similar in regards to the air brake system/layout.

The air drier is located in front of the rear differential. It might be a Bendix AD-9.

Your passenger side tanks will be a wet tank (smaller) and your secondary tank (front brakes). The driver side is your accessory tank (smaller) and primary tank (rear brakes).

[KlingonFiero]

Thanks a lot for the air tank info!
.
Do you have a test port in the engine bay? Near the start box? That's the only thing I can think of for the Schrader valve sitting up there.

[12vtech]

Sorry I do not have a test port or Schrader valve near the rear electrical box. Do you have a picture of it?

[KlingonFiero]

Pics, as requested! Sorry, pics wont load. Probably because I am out in the middle of nowhere...


It is right next to the airflow meter for the air filter.
it is connected to a braided hose that enters a bundle heading to the front of the bus somewhere. It will be a huge project to try and trace it, hopefully someone will know exactly what it is for.

I am 99% sure it is factory original, as the bracket it is mounted too is also the bracket for the air flow meter.




I was able to kinda clean it and now it is a barely audible hiss of air leaking.

I will pick up a new valve when i go to town again.

[TJones]

Originally Posted by KlingonFiero

Pics, as requested! Sorry, pics wont load. Probably because I am out in the middle of nowhere...


It is right next to the airflow meter for the air filter.
it is connected to a braided hose that enters a bundle heading to the front of the bus somewhere. It will be a huge project to try and trace it, hopefully someone will know exactly what it is for.

I am 99% sure it is factory original, as the bracket it is mounted too is also the bracket for the air flow meter.




I was able to kinda clean it and now it is a barely audible hiss of air leaking.

I will pick up a new valve when i go to town again.

The schrader tire valve may be for airing up the system in case it would need to be towed. Do you have air ride suspension?

Ted

[KlingonFiero]

Hmm, very possible! I do have air ride on the rear...

[EastCoastCB]

Does your bus have AC?

[KlingonFiero]

Yes, yes it does habe A/C. Two compressors. Blows ice cold.
On my way home I accidentally turned it on and couldn't figure out why I was getting so cold!
.
Why do you ask?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by KlingonFiero

Yes, yes it does habe A/C. Two compressors. Blows ice cold.
On my way home I accidentally turned it on and couldn't figure out why I was getting so cold!
.
Why do you ask?

Cause a buddy of mine with an MCI has a schrader valve in the rear engine compartment that's for freon iirc.

[KlingonFiero]

Well, I'm gonna go out on my uneducated limb abd say this is definitely air. It hisses at ya till the air tanks are empty , then after running the engine for a while it starts hissing again.

Hmmm, maybe that's where she gets her name from. Do Bullsnakes hiss??? Lol!