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Old 06-13-2024, 11:35 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Year: 1986
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Engine: Int. DT466
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7.3-dt466 swap motor mounts question

I'm in the middle of having a shop swap out my transmission and upon their removal of my old trans they discovered a horrible sight.

It's become obvious that the other shop that I had replace my 7.3 with a dt466 15 years ago ran into what I would assume is a common issue for that swap but kept me in the dark about it.

The narrower/longer dt engine block puts the motor mounts further back on the frame which end up directly inboard from where the spring mounts bolt to the frame, making bolting of the motor mounts impossible.

That shop's solution to that was to just throw a spacer in there and attempt to weld it hoping I would never know. One mount is literally just sitting on the flange of the frame bouncing down the road and the other is poorly welded and barely hanging on. basically it's a miracle that my bus didn't loose it's guts all over the highway a long time ago.

Does anybody know if there's a type of motor mount that is commonly used in 7.3/t444e to dt466 conversion? one with an offset bolt pattern that misses the spring mount hardware? I know that alot of buses similar to mine came with the dt466 stock.

I found some on ebay that seem to be used in the newer dt466 maxxforce engines, I'm just not sure if they're compatible with my '86 international s1700 bus that came with the 7.3/t444e stock.

Any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Kyle
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Old 06-14-2024, 10:42 AM   #2
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Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
Just thinking out of the box here, but is it possible to just use longer bolts on the spring hangers and bolt up the engine mount to that, along with a new custom fabricated bracket ?


I replaced my front spring and on my RE chassis, that would be something that is doable as my spring hangers are bolted in versus rivets.
If I did have to go this route to secure something, I have plenty of space.
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Old 06-14-2024, 11:33 AM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
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thats a great idea but it's the custom bracket that scares me. the oem mounts are solid cast that rely on mechanical fasteners. although im not a metal fabricator or engineer, that's my initial thought
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Old 06-14-2024, 12:06 PM   #4
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My dad taught me something i’ll never forget and apply when i get stuck on a thought/issue, like this one.

Do like the mexicans, grab a welder, torch and hammer and make it Happen!!!

Get some stiff board/cardboard and mock up you mount.

Post some pics cause i’m sure there are some rat rodder inventors here that can provide helpful suggestions…

Then surprise us with your magic !

Post some pics of what you got now.
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Old 06-14-2024, 01:25 PM   #5
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Any steel mount you make is going to be stronger than a cast version of it. The weak point might be your welds if you are bad at welding. Just get the specs, design it out what you need, measure etc, and have a welder fab it out for you if you don't trust yourself.

And could probably build it better with some rubber bushings to fit between the engine and your mount for less vibration and noise than factory.
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Old 06-20-2024, 09:15 AM   #6
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You need a fabricator/shop that specializes in that. Perhaps the shop doing your trans can find the right person to help? If you have time the cheapest/easiest way would be to find your platform with the appropriate engine and buy the bracket. Unlikely to find it though. AAABus out of Phoenix perhaps. I didn't catch the year of your bus. The older it is the more difficult it will be. The perfect donor would match but already have the engine out.
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Old 06-20-2024, 09:35 AM   #7
Bus Nut
 
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As far as a bus specific salvage yard-- you might call Alonzo Wade Auto Parts in Alto, GA-- 706-778-6400.

These guys know buses, and have a LOT of stuff..

Never been there-- but have talked to them on the phone-- and am planning a trip....
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Old 06-20-2024, 09:52 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyletheyeti View Post
thats a great idea but it's the custom bracket that scares me. the oem mounts are solid cast that rely on mechanical fasteners. although im not a metal fabricator or engineer, that's my initial thought
For educational purposes, do yourself a big favor and visit one or two welding shops and ask about making a custom bracket to fit your needs.

with a good welder on your side your worries will dissipate!

Then you can make a better informed decision.
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Old 06-20-2024, 12:39 PM   #9
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you shouldnt need any special parts unless your NGD mounts up to the frame completely different than the previous variants.. my buddy that did a 7.3 IDI to DT360 swap in his S1700 was able to move the front mounts back which allowed the rear mounts to connect up.. the 7.3 even though its a physically shorter engine sits at least an inch forward of a DT.. thus why on the 7.3 the radiator has a 1 inch spacewr to push it outward toward the grill that the DT doesnt have... the frame holes should already be there.. and you can use the newer V style mounts vs the round ones.. the DT of course extends into the cab but its front is also further back than the front of the 7.3 IDI..



now if the previous shop that did the original shop welded over some of the correct holes during his shoddy install then that would be cause for concern..



the factory does not use different frames for each engine option. the mounts are different they do change the number and gauge of spring leaves to handle weight differences but not the frame. the only exception MIGHT be if your bus somehow ended up with a really light duty frame that was only ever designed to accept an IDI.. however that would be a new one to me.. on my 3800's the frame setup is identical on my bus with a GVWR of 17,500 and the one with GVWR of 27500.. (one with an IDI, one with a DT.. )
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Old 06-20-2024, 01:17 PM   #10
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tranny mounts

This may not work on your tranny mounts because you are fighting leaf spring mounts but it could give you some ideas. I used the factory mounts as you can see in my engine/tranny pics then rubber discs for my frame mounts with a steel sleeve to keep from over tightening and squeezing rubber too much (Mcmaster-Carr for rubber discs). My frame mounts are jinormous 8x8x5/8 angle iron pieces bolted to the outside of the frame (to achieve correct height). The tranny mounts just sit on these pieces of angle and I would never worry about them sagging or breaking, way more than was necessary. (looking up from ground at all but first one which is top down, blue is bellhousing) Good luck.
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Old 06-21-2024, 02:18 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyletheyeti View Post
thats a great idea but it's the custom bracket that scares me. the oem mounts are solid cast that rely on mechanical fasteners. although im not a metal fabricator or engineer, that's my initial thought

Don't be scared, using quality metal and quality techniques will usually wind up with something better than what is in most OEMs.



Granted, many shops who stumble upon having to solve a problem like this in a hurry will often use shortcuts, but I would remind you that most of the time, those are never even discovered. Since I only drive pre-'08 vehicles, I often have to do some work on them, and the number of times I've discovered hacks and shortcuts would astound you...


But most of the time those ugly and nasty hacks and shortcuts work, and do not contribute to the failure or problems of an engine--that's usually maintenance, or the lack of it, specifically that causes problems and failures.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverdude0075 View Post
You need a fabricator/shop that specializes in that. Perhaps the shop doing your trans can find the right person to help? If you have time the cheapest/easiest way would be to find your platform with the appropriate engine and buy the bracket. Unlikely to find it though. AAABus out of Phoenix perhaps. I didn't catch the year of your bus. The older it is the more difficult it will be. The perfect donor would match but already have the engine out.

No; you don't. Any old hot-rod kind of guy that has swapped out multiple engines has made up mounts and brackets, and nine times out of ten, they're stronger/better than the OEMs, but uglier.



People like to worship automotive engineers like they're some kind of divine beings--but you have to remember who actually outranks them, and that is the company's accountants and finance *********. And these are the kind of people that **** all over the engineers divinely-inspired plans and tell them to make **** out of plastic instead.



One of my favorite quotes about engineering:
"Any ignorant backwoods asshat can build a bridge that will last thousands of years; but it takes an engineer to design a bridge that will only carry a specified amount of weight, over a specified amount of time, and will only cost a certain amount."
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