Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-31-2019, 02:51 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Any trouble with Winter diesel starting?

Im wanting to get a mini bus 7.3l or 6.6l also been looking at shorter bus with a 03 dt466. I have been researching them and came to the conclusion that these are probably the best diesels you can get (not including cummins). I have been pretty sold on getting one and have just been searching for the right one or just one for sale. But hit a wall the other day when thinking of trying to start one of these engines in the winter up in the mountains with no plug in.

Does anybody have some experience with starting these engines with no plug in in really cold weather, I would be spending most winters in the cold skiing and not being able to easily start my van/bus seems like a huge con of a diesel.
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 03:17 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,337
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
I can tell you that a propane grill under the oil pan for two hours works....... Not recommend......

In my new bus I have a Webasto diesel fired heater that will preheat the engine when a plug in is not available.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 03:29 PM   #3
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Haha Yea that would definitely be a sketchy worst case scenario, Yea I have been looking at the Wabasto heaters a little. Do you mind telling me which one you got? The ones that I found after a short search were $700-$3000 depending on kits and different models, cant imagine how a diesel heater for just a bus/van could cost that much!
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 04:07 PM   #4
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,337
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
I have the Webasto Schoolastic. It is 45k btu.

I paid $500
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 04:39 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Awesome thank you, with that did you just duct some vents that go inside the bus and then one into the engine bay?
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 04:42 PM   #6
Bus Crazy
 
Sleddgracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf44 View Post
Im wanting to get a mini bus 7.3l or 6.6l also been looking at shorter bus with a 03 dt466. I have been researching them and came to the conclusion that these are probably the best diesels you can get (not including cummins). I have been pretty sold on getting one and have just been searching for the right one or just one for sale. But hit a wall the other day when thinking of trying to start one of these engines in the winter up in the mountains with no plug in.

Does anybody have some experience with starting these engines with no plug in in really cold weather, I would be spending most winters in the cold skiing and not being able to easily start my van/bus seems like a huge con of a diesel.
a tiger torch with the flame fed through a stove pipe with an elbow to direct the heat under the oil pan works if the smoke coming off the motor doesn't scare you too much - -40 and won't crank over, to running, 20 +/- minutes - been there done that in the NWT
Sleddgracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 04:54 PM   #7
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Thanks Im going to want to have something permanent and semi easy to heat up. I plan on spending most winter in the cold. Im liking the wabasto heater if im able to heat the inside and the engine bay from one heater.
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 09:12 PM   #8
Bus Crazy
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,577
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
The wabasto heater heats the engine coolant, and has a seperate 12 volt electric pump to circulate the coolant. At least the one I have is set up this way.
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 09:19 PM   #9
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
The wabasto heater heats the engine coolant, and has a seperate 12 volt electric pump to circulate the coolant. At least the one I have is set up this way.
Is the one you have the Thermo Top C? Your not able to get any in cabin heat right?
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-31-2019, 09:30 PM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,577
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
I have not tried it, but would expect it to also give cabin heat. One picture is the tag on the wabasto heater and the other is the pump.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20190303_163756.jpg (196.4 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg 20190303_163811.jpg (165.8 KB, 12 views)
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2019, 01:12 AM   #11
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,971
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
If it is set up to heat the engine coolant, then the cabin heater lines will also be heated, just like driving it. Some folks have a set of valves to allow the heated coolant from the unit to warm the cabin, the engine, or both.
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2019, 07:38 AM   #12
Bus Nut
 
Yukon Cornelius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Barrie ON
Posts: 440
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: International
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW_Steve View Post
I can tell you that a propane grill under the oil pan for two hours works....... Not recommend......

In my new bus I have a Webasto diesel fired heater that will preheat the engine when a plug in is not available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleddgracer View Post
a tiger torch with the flame fed through a stove pipe with an elbow to direct the heat under the oil pan works if the smoke coming off the motor doesn't scare you too much - -40 and won't crank over, to running, 20 +/- minutes - been there done that in the NWT
Drip tray full of naphtha, kerosene or charcoal.........or combinations thereof....

But a wabasto or espar will definitely go a long way for cold weather ops.
coupled with good starting batteries should be sufficient for most applications.

Depending on your version of cold and the location
__________________
Yukon

Handyman and Shenaniganizer
https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f11/97...ion-22324.html
Yukon Cornelius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2019, 08:13 AM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
If it is set up to heat the engine coolant, then the cabin heater lines will also be heated, just like driving it. Some folks have a set of valves to allow the heated coolant from the unit to warm the cabin, the engine, or both.
Wouldn’t the vehicles vent fans have to be on to push the hot air into the cabin?
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 12:21 AM   #14
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,971
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surf44 View Post
Wouldn’t the vehicles vent fans have to be on to push the hot air into the cabin?
Yes, for the most-part. There would be some radiant movement of the heat from the normal bus heaters without the fans running. Might as well simply turn on the fans though.
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 07:24 AM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Native View Post
Yes, for the most-part. There would be some radiant movement of the heat from the normal bus heaters without the fans running. Might as well simply turn on the fans though.
True, it would eventually drain your batteries with the ignition on though. Either way They are expensive! About $1400-$2000.

I hate to say it but Im starting to feel like a gasser is a simpler cheaper option not in a full size bus, but in van or mini bus.
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 07:36 AM   #16
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 1,698
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
A 6.6L duramax will start at near zero degrees fahrenheit with good batteries and starter. No need to plug it in unless you want easier starting and instant cab heat.

The 7.3 won't do it nearly as cold because of the heui injection system.

Any diesel will need to have the correct additives dumped in the tank to prevent fuel gel and waxing from occurring.

Cold is a relative term, what's the temperature you're actually going to be seeing?

Gas engines can have just as much trouble starting when below freezing as a diesel engine. Flood one of those out and you'll be stuck pulling plugs in a van(no fun).

If you want in cab heat, those webasto heaters work great at making it. But as said previously, they are expensive.
Booyah45828 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 07:52 AM   #17
Bus Crazy
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 1,577
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
Someone had mentioned and put a link to a chinese made copy or at least near copy of the Wabasto heater for about $300.
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 08:36 AM   #18
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Posts: 1,712
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: B3800 Short bus
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 36
With a 7.3l you need to make sure the glow plugs are working and that you have sufficient cold cranking amps. For a van cut away that will mean having 2 good starting batteries. These engines start fine in the cold if they have sufficient battery power.

Will you have a generator? If so you could power up the block heater and run a battery charger for those worst case scenarios. A webasto is a great idea, too, but I personally wouldn't go through the trouble if I wasn't also harnessing it's heat for other things such as cabin heat when parked.
__________________
My build page: Armageddon - The Smell of Airborne Rust
jazty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 10:46 AM   #19
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 17
I would doing the build to be decently comfortable in sub zero temperatures fahrenheit. Probably wont be a ton of those days and maybe Honestly I dont have the real experience of Northwest winters I’ve lived in FL my whole life. Just trips to CO and MI have been the coldest, but never in diesels. But I plan on staying in the Northwest most of the winter and I’d like to be prepared for below freezing everyday.

I have read about the generator idea and its a great fairly cheap and very easy option. I mainly just dont want to have to make space for it or have the noise from it. I planned on getting a Espar,Propex, or Webasto heater for in the cabin but would not have the budget for the Air heater and coolant heater. I was thinking that I could just put a Y fitting on the heater and have 2 ducts one for in the cabin and one through the dog house on the engine?
Surf44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2019, 11:46 AM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Eastern WA
Posts: 6,337
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American RE (A3RE)
Engine: Cummins ISC (8.3)
Rated Cap: 72
The coolant heater will provide engine preheat as well as interior radiant heat and hot air.

Regarding battery use, mine will run from the house batteries so no worries about running the starting battery down.
PNW_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×