Best (and Worst) to Look for In a Bus?

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

Caplansail's IC transport is taking me through Lancaster briefly before final destination to upstate NY. Perhaps I could arrange a short layover there if you can meet up, and I could possibly help figure that out, if you can swing bringing your rig that far.

Yeah, that's not too far. When are you coming through? I probably need to get my toilet built before I can go long distances lol.

I suspect my mechanic turned off the coolant loop to the heater during my recent repairs and forgot to turn it back on. It was working great last winter, kept me toasty even with the giant hole in the floor. Now it just pours out cold air. I guess I should at least attempt to just google this.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

Yeah, that's not too far. When are you coming through? I probably need to get my toilet built before I can go long distances lol.

I suspect my mechanic turned off the coolant loop to the heater during my recent repairs and forgot to turn it back on. It was working great last winter, kept me toasty even with the giant hole in the floor. Now it just pours out cold air. I guess I should at least attempt to just google this.

Was supposed to be en route for pickup this weekend but insurance issues have pushed things back a bit. Maybe Thursday will see the bus heading home? Not sure yet. I know the heater loops typically have hand valves installed for turning off, usually under hood or near driver's area. Could also be clogged heater cores, or alternately, some have a sort of flap in them that acts as a check valve for one-way flow (connections could be reversed).

[joeblack5]

Hi Sevier,. Not sure about your reasoning for school bus. For all practical purposes a low floor city bus has more space , more headroom, can be 6" wider and is easier to get in..

If you like yellow, then argument is null.

Johan

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

When things go wrong on a bus, they can be extremely expensive to repair. Any bus you buy is going to have some number of parts or systems that are close to the end of their service lives. It's kind of a crapshoot as to how many there are, when you're going to hit them, and how much it's going to cost. When I see people buying a bus when they only have a $5K to $10K (or less!) total budget for the conversion, I want to cry. They're one trip to the mechanics away from a catastrophic ending.

Fortunately, we have room for extra expenses (building a Skoolie is supposed to reduce stress, not increase it! so gone are the days of foolishness) but certainly want to avoid unnecessary costs. Hence why we will get any bus we’re considering inspected before purchase.

Speaking of, anyone know anyone that lives near Canton, OH or Wallisville TX, who would like to pick up an inspection job?

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

I like #3. The FS65 is a good chassis. The 3126 is pretty damn solid and easy to service. And its got OD.

Thankyou Musigenesis, Cheese_Wagon and EastCoastCB! (sorry for delay in acknowledgment, for some reason, likely settings related, I dont know when people respond unless I manually search for the thread and check).

Its good to know you think the Cat 3126 would work - I just found a 1999 Thomas, rear engine, CAT 3126, MT643 trans (supposedly) 255K miles, 77" ceiling. Good condition rust wise, not even listed yet but they think for somewhere around $8k. How does that sound? I suspect some of you may think $8k is too expensive, but I am not a mechanic, and so spending $3k on a bus that will cost me another $10k in broken parts or rusty floor repair isn't a good deal either

They clean their buses up inside and out, and inspect before selling, its not a junk yard kind of dealership. I would of course, get it inspected by an outside mechanic first. Its been really difficult (Im sure you all know all about this) to find a bus that meets all our criteria, including the right length and ceiling height. We are too tall to take on a standard 73" ceiling height, and so that eliminates just about every "ideal" engine/trans combo). I've visited a few junk yards looking for gems, once in pouring down November rain, and it was so depressing. Gross awful moldy mis treated buses. Not very inspiring to the skoolie life!

[EastCoastCB]

If its been maintained well it sounds like a decent one. The price sounds high to me, but bus prices are high all around these days.
Check all the fluids' condition, check the engine running for excessive blowby at the tube.

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If its been maintained well it sounds like a decent one. The price sounds high to me, but bus prices are high all around these days.
Check all the fluids' condition, check the engine running for excessive blowby at the tube.

Yes, thankyou! (and I have google taught myself what "excessive blowby at the tube" is

[Maligator.]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

If its been maintained well it sounds like a decent one. The price sounds high to me, but bus prices are high all around these days.
Check all the fluids' condition, check the engine running for excessive blowby at the tube.

We paid 7500usd after my veterans discount and haggling. I knew of a couple 8.3s with 3060s but they had over 300k miles and they wanted 10k for each one. I think getting a "premium bus" is going to come with a "premium" from now on. There are thousands of people deciding they want to do it and flooding the market.
I got offered 16k for my bus before I drove it up here through a third party, if I thought I could find another in it's condition, I might have flipped it but I really like this bus and have invested sweat and time in it already. But I got everything I wanted and the bus took me safely 3000 miles over the AlCan in November with only 1 minor hiccup that totaled only 400 emergency dollars spent, I couldn't be happier because that's one rough trip in the best conditions.

Honestly today, I think 8-10k is gonna be a fair price for an above average bus. Plus it's the foundation of all the money you spend afterwards, and you can't put a price on a solid foundation. I know my bus saved me thousands and I can't put a price on peace of mind and I know my bus is damn tough and will provide for. That was worth the searching and ultimately paying a higher price. The original bus I was going to inspect was listed for 5000(99DT466 with 230k) but I saw this one and just knew it was going to be the right one, so I haggled my best and we reached a price that satisfied us both. To me that's the heart of supply and demand, I believe the market is setting a higher price because the true good buses are becoming scarcer, basic economics.

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by Maligator.

We paid 7500usd after my veterans discount and haggling. I knew of a couple 8.3s with 3060s but they had over 300k miles and they wanted 10k for each one. I think getting a "premium bus" is going to come with a "premium" from now on. There are thousands of people deciding they want to do it and flooding the market.
I got offered 16k for my bus before I drove it up here through a third party, if I thought I could find another in it's condition, I might have flipped it but I really like this bus and have invested sweat and time in it already. But I got everything I wanted and the bus took me safely 3000 miles over the AlCan in November with only 1 minor hiccup that totaled only 400 emergency dollars spent, I couldn't be happier because that's one rough trip in the best conditions.

Honestly today, I think 8-10k is gonna be a fair price for an above average bus. Plus it's the foundation of all the money you spend afterwards, and you can't put a price on a solid foundation. I know my bus saved me thousands and I can't put a price on peace of mind and I know my bus is damn tough and will provide for. That was worth the searching and ultimately paying a higher price. The original bus I was going to inspect was listed for 5000(99DT466 with 230k) but I saw this one and just knew it was going to be the right one, so I haggled my best and we reached a price that satisfied us both. To me that's the heart of supply and demand, I believe the market is setting a higher price because the true good buses are becoming scarcer, basic economics.

Not having any mechanical knowledge, I fully agree - within reason, I’ve got to invest more in a good bus now, to avoid expense later. Thanks for the perspective!

[musigenesis]

My concern is that the price of a used school bus isn't necessarily all that well-correlated with what its short-term and long-term mechanical costs are going to be. All of these buses are old, and even the well-maintained ones will still have a lot of systems that are nearing the end of their service lives and will need expensive replacement. An example is the highly-coveted Cummins 8.3 that needs its camshaft replaced after 9000 miles - irregardless (figures: skoolie.net doesn't flag that as a spelling error) of how perfectly it's been maintained up to that point.

Conversely, you have my bus which was rode hard and put away wet (literally) for a not-insane price ($3600) that has a DT466e with 36K miles on it. It seems like it's all a crapshoot to a certain extent, so maybe it makes sense to start off with a cheap bus.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Sevier

Not having any mechanical knowledge, I fully agree - within reason, I’ve got to invest more in a good bus now, to avoid expense later. Thanks for the perspective!

I'd invest in making friends with a good diesel mechanic.

[bus-bro]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

An example is the highly-coveted Cummins 8.3 that needs its camshaft replaced after 9000 miles - irregardless (figures: skoolie.net doesn't flag that as a spelling error) of how perfectly it's been maintained up to that point.

9k cam replacement! Say what!

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

An example is the highly-coveted Cummins 8.3 that needs its camshaft replaced after 9000 miles - irregardless (figures: skoolie.net doesn't flag that as a spelling error) of how perfectly it's been maintained up to that point.

Originally Posted by bus-bro

9k cam replacement! Say what!

9000 HOURS, not miles, even with good maintenance. And that's really not that bad. 9000 hrs x 60 mph = 540,000 miles!... 9000 hrs x 30 mph = 270,000 miles! So 9,000 hours really isn't that bad when you think about it. Most route buses only average around 3-18 mph however.

Also of note is that it requires a high-zinc content oil for longevity, as well as a few tweaks in the fuel system to keep its accumulator-style CAPS pump alive. I had occasion to transport either an All-American or a TC2000 recently that was so equipped.

An MD3060 model with presumably a 4.56 rear gear, cruised comfortably at 2200 rpm running 70-72 mph. Usually don't drive that fast, but was reconning the highway fuel economy numbers at different speeds for the new owners. Got 7.5 mpg at 2200 rpm.

Camshaft issue cropped up about 1200-1300 miles into a 1700-mile trip, and after being repaired, the new owners elected to bring it the rest of the way themselves, understandable after an unexpected $9,000 repair bill. They reported numbers that add up to about 11 mpg at 60 (give or take 1800 rpm, I'd say, given the probable axle gear).

It had 258k at the time of the failure, averaging 28.9 mph if it had not been addressed before and the engine's run time was about the aforementioned 9,000 hrs. I wasn't able to verify, only going by what the road service tech said.

What I can say is that this issue was likely developing when I left Council Bluffs IA heading to the NorthEast. 21 hours later I was in Barkeyville PA near the I-79 / I-80 junction and it was still doing fine until about 20-30 minutes before I reached Drums PA. Misfiring and lots of smoke, blew the exhaust apart before I got it off the road. Saved the engine though. 1200-1300 miles, getting 7.5 mpg with a car in tow and a cylinder slowly losing power. The 8.3 has my respect.

[bus-bro]

Not like the Big Cam Cummins then. We ran an 855 Big Cam on a boat about 5000 hours a year. We would run that thing for years and never worry about the camshaft.

[CHEESE_WAGON]

Originally Posted by bus-bro

Not like the Big Cam Cummins then. We ran an 855 Big Cam on a boat about 5000 hours a year. We would run that thing for years and never worry about the camshaft.

I suspect that Big Cam probably has a bit more horsepower and doesn't generally know a load is there, either...

[Sevier]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

I suspect that Big Cam probably has a bit more horsepower and doesn't generally know a load is there, either...

Hello Everyone -

Just wanted to update - finally purchased a bus - and a big thanks to those who provided constructive feedback - WIbluebird, Maligator, peteg59, eastcoastcb, musigenesis - I couldn’t have done this without that.

We had lots of boxes to tick - pre electrical/emissions; great engine and transmission; higher ceiling; NO tint on the windows; no rust; air brakes; 26-ish’ of useable space; and generally a healthy good bus. After hundreds of hours of searching, I found a 2003 Freightliner Thomas in Florida that had just been purchased from an Alabama school w 78” ceilings, 24 valve Cummins 5.9 w an Alison 2000, air brakes, 102K miles, no tint on the windows, no observable rust, and the one box we couldn’t tick was the length - 37’ Dog Nose :/ I had a mechanic inspect it prior to purchase and everything that didn’t check out (all but two tires were new, so got two more, oil change, some filter changes, new alternator, two new batteries, fluids topped) I negotiated into the asking price of $8500.

Did my best, its not a perfect combo, expensive, but we feel good about it! The price for rust free southern buses seems high, and I already have my hands full, learning how to weld isnt an option right now.

And so, I embark upon the conversion, largely on my own, as my partner is a full time med student and he will not join society again until 2023. Have made spreadsheets galore - outlining everything from project steps and processes to materials - hope to do this RIGHT!

Thanks again to everyone!!

[Maligator.]

Nice, that's a lot of work and items for 8500, good job! You could easily pay over 1000 for welding alone if you had a bad rusty bus, plus the low mileage is good. Probably got between a grand or 2 in tires, alternator, batteries and maintenance. Now for the fun part, getting her home!!

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by CHEESE_WAGON

9000 HOURS, not miles

I meant hours, at least.

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by Maligator.

You could easily pay over 1000 for welding alone if you had a bad rusty bus, plus the low mileage is good.

I'm kind of curious about what my floor rebuild would have cost if I'd hired somebody else to do it (I actually did hire somebody else to do it, he just didn't ****ing do it).

[BLee727]

Cheese- would you mind sharing your newbie checklist? We are hoping to buy a bud for my kids long term school project. Much appreciated.