Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-15-2020, 11:27 AM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Instagram: @sojourn.expedition
Posts: 23
Chassis: YouTube @ Sojourn Expedition
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Question Buying a Bus / CAT vs. Cummins

I'm looking at a Bus to convert. It's a 33ft Blue Bird for $3600. It's a southern bus, so it has very little rust. The Transmission is an Allison 2000 Series, which seems fine, but the motor is a Rear Compartment CAT 3126. I'm just not sure about the Cat 3126. I'm waiting on the maintenance report, but it seems like some people on this forum are down on CAT motors. I'd really like to know some specific reasons. I know some have mentioned that the repairs are pricey, but most of those were not rear compartment engines. Does that make a difference? Are there other considerations?

Also, I have found other buses to buy. They have Cummins engines, but they also have the Allison 545. Is the 545 that bad? How much would it cost to switch it out for a 643? Is it worth it?

VinDaddy10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2020, 12:11 PM   #2
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Cat 3126 is a darn good motor. COupled with an A2000 you've got a smooth, quiet running setup with good mpg's.
Don't let anyone scare you away from a clean well maintained 3126.

Repairs don't cost any more than any other medium duty engine.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2020, 05:18 PM   #3
Bus Crazy
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,324
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
Cat 3126 seems to be decent, the Cat C7 is a problem child.

Changing transmissions is not an easy task unless you are used to doing it. Even then it takes some time and skill. I would take the 3126 and allison 2000 before the cummins and 545. Even though in general I prefer the cummins.
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2020, 06:20 PM   #4
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,956
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
I agree with Ronnie on this one.



All engines will be cared for differently in their lifetime so Op, how well do you know diesel characteristics and do you enjoy learning and wrenching.
If not then expect some heavy repair bills if any shop has to do it. You might get lucky if you have family or friends to assist you and just about every conceivable problem has already been discussed here so reading is a must.
People can only be so helpful here, experts or not and each bus has its own quirks and gremlins, so be very wary. Being there in person is a lot more helpful for trained techs than all the knowledge they can pass on thru this site.
Understanding is key but being able to use tools is all important. A lot of problems can be caught ahead of time and avoid major repairs.
It's all up to you.
As mentioned I like Cats due to design and layout compared to other engines. ymmv.


John
__________________
Question everything!
BlackJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2020, 06:49 PM   #5
Bus Crazy
 
WIbluebird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,259
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: All American
Engine: 8.3 Cummins ISC
Rated Cap: 75
I am not a fan of HEUI engines in general, Cummins is much better when it comes to injector/pump design. Not a deal breaker but something to consider.



Also the fact that Caterpillar has not made an engine for the on-road diesel market since 2008 is also something that needs to be considered. As time goes on (especially in Rust Belt areas) the number of CAT powered trucks & buses is only going to diminish which means parts availability and mechanical knowledge is going to suffer.



I still enjoyed driving the 2 2008 CAT C7 Bluebird AA FEs we had at my company the first few years I was there. They had a lot more power than the rest of the fleet and I never had an issue with them (although fleet operated school buses is a VERY different scenario than a skoolie application).
WIbluebird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2020, 07:21 PM   #6
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
none of us are running engines much newer that 08. and only cummins is still building medium duty diesels.
ANY pre-2004 engine is about the same in terms of parts availability and service.
I'm having a much better time owning this Cat than any of the Navistars before it, although the mechanical DT466 I had was marvelous.
Ford vs Chevy for all the pre 2004 stuff.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2020, 09:58 PM   #7
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lebanon, Indiana
Posts: 911
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Winnebago
Chassis: Ford F53
Engine: Ford Triton V-10
Rated Cap: currently 2
As you can see OP, CAT vs Cummins is about like asking Ford vs Chevy. Sure people have their preference and some can even explain why they prefer one over the other. For our purposes here, most of us know little to nothing about diesel engines and most of it is secondhand not firsthand personal experience so the reasoning for preferring any one over another is practically irrelevant. WIbluebird brought up the only actual definable difference with the HEUI injection system but I'm guessing half of us don't even know what that means anyways. Unless you're already a diesel mechanic and know why a CAT or a Cummins might be better for you it's unlikely that this is going to be the make-or-break factor for you. It's also far more likely that whatever you end up with if you're the type who likes to learn all you can about your own stuff you'll likely develop an affinity for your type and thus you'll either be a CAT person or a Cummins person! See how that works?!

By all means the real make-or-break factor here is the transmission. Avoid an AT545 as much as possible and if you have an alternative available that right there should probably be your deciding factor. Engine or transmission swaps are huge tasks with huge expenses and huge headaches unless it's just the type of thing you already do in your spare time and therefore know what you're getting into.
Sehnsucht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 11:39 AM   #8
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Instagram: @sojourn.expedition
Posts: 23
Chassis: YouTube @ Sojourn Expedition
Engine: Cummins 5.9
So turns out he doesn't have maintenance records, and the dashboard doesn't work. He has some type of documentation stating the mileage was 125,000 at purchase. Any thoughts?

Is there a way to pull up public records if he bought it from a public school?
VinDaddy10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 11:49 AM   #9
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Doubtful.
Gonna have to go on condition. Check out his "documentation".
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2020, 08:58 PM   #10
Bus Crazy
 
banman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Moved to Zealand!
Posts: 1,517
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freightliner FS-65
Engine: 7.2L Cat 3126 turbo diesel
Rated Cap: 71 passenger 30,000 gvwr
If it's a CAT engine a CAT service tech can read the engine computer and tell you quite a bit. exactly how many hours it's operated, any trouble codes past/present, .

You'll receive a printout from the diagnostic computer checkup...

I don't know what the charge is but call round and see --

If the owner refuses to allow it then you know something might be wrong...
__________________
David

The Murder Bus
banman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2020, 06:35 AM   #11
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Temple, Ga
Posts: 23
Year: 2000
Chassis: BlueBird
Engine: 5.9 24v
Enter the vin in Bluebirds Portal and you'll get some info, especially who the original purchaser was. One thing I watch is the rear end ratio, those are expensive to swap if you want highway speeds and lower rpms.
Clusters are also expensive if you have to purchase one.
Definitely get a tech to scan the ecm - since the dash doesn't work do the idiot lights?
FYI - there is a RE Thomas with the 3126 here in Atlanta that needs an injector, guy is asking $2575. Should still be on MarketPlace if you want a comparison.
stamp11127 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 03:29 PM   #12
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 62
The AT545 is okay if you don't mind the fuel mpg decrease.
coolcraftnet18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 09:15 PM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 58
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 8 seats, 5 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIbluebird View Post
I am not a fan of HEUI engines in general, Cummins is much better when it comes to injector/pump design. Not a deal breaker but something to consider.



Also the fact that Caterpillar has not made an engine for the on-road diesel market since 2008 is also something that needs to be considered. As time goes on (especially in Rust Belt areas) the number of CAT powered trucks & buses is only going to diminish which means parts availability and mechanical knowledge is going to suffer.



I still enjoyed driving the 2 2008 CAT C7 Bluebird AA FEs we had at my company the first few years I was there. They had a lot more power than the rest of the fleet and I never had an issue with them (although fleet operated school buses is a VERY different scenario than a skoolie application).
But Cat is still building the 7.2 engine in an off road version and it goes in a lot of excavators, loaders, etc.. Parts for our 3126's shouldn't be a problem as long as Cat doesn't just go completely belly up and out of business.
1dmpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 10:05 PM   #14
Skoolie
 
vintageracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 127
Cat quit making over the road diesel engines to avoid meeting the new emissions standards in 2008. The 3126 is a good engine like most diesel engines will last a longtime with proper service and maintenance.
__________________
Mike

Remember "Drive Fast, Turn Heads, Break Hearts"
vintageracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 10:21 PM   #15
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcraftnet18 View Post
The AT545 is okay if you don't mind the fuel mpg decrease.
There's also the higher operating temps and lack of engine braking.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 10:23 PM   #16
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dmpo View Post
But Cat is still building the 7.2 engine in an off road version and it goes in a lot of excavators, loaders, etc.. Parts for our 3126's shouldn't be a problem as long as Cat doesn't just go completely belly up and out of business.
I've had no issues getting parts other than I had to go to the parts store for a generic v belt cause the freightliner shop was out of em.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2020, 04:57 AM   #17
Bus Nut
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Lebanon, Indiana
Posts: 911
Year: 2000
Coachwork: Winnebago
Chassis: Ford F53
Engine: Ford Triton V-10
Rated Cap: currently 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1dmpo View Post
But Cat is still building the 7.2 engine in an off road version and it goes in a lot of excavators, loaders, etc.. Parts for our 3126's shouldn't be a problem as long as Cat doesn't just go completely belly up and out of business.
My company hauls way too much CAT parts for them to be in danger of going out of business anytime soon. Granted they did tighten up their logistics chain for more efficiency which resulted in fewer actual truckloads but that's just good fiscal business and not a sign of trouble.

I also don't think people realize how vast CAT's international market is. I have no numbers to offer but I know much of what we haul is bound for overseas. Any emerging nation or developing overseas industry usually needs earthmoving equipment and global CAT is a well respected name. Departing the Class 5-8 diesel engine market was probably barely a blip on their balance sheet.
Sehnsucht is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2020, 08:39 PM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 58
Year: 2007
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Thomas
Engine: Cummins 5.9
Rated Cap: 8 seats, 5 wheelchairs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sehnsucht View Post
My company hauls way too much CAT parts for them to be in danger of going out of business anytime soon. Granted they did tighten up their logistics chain for more efficiency which resulted in fewer actual truckloads but that's just good fiscal business and not a sign of trouble.

I also don't think people realize how vast CAT's international market is. I have no numbers to offer but I know much of what we haul is bound for overseas. Any emerging nation or developing overseas industry usually needs earthmoving equipment and global CAT is a well respected name. Departing the Class 5-8 diesel engine market was probably barely a blip on their balance sheet.
Cat is a heavy equipment manufacturer, always has been, the highway engine line was just a sideline venture for them. A lot of people think that it was a "big deal" because Cat quit making engines. Well no they didn't, they quit a sideline deal that the EPA made it more difficult than it was worth to maintain.
1dmpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2020, 09:10 PM   #19
Bus Geek
 
EastCoastCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,764
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
I really do think it was best they got out when they did.
EastCoastCB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2020, 01:05 AM   #20
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,856
Year: 2002
Coachwork: Thomas Built Bus
Chassis: Freightliner FS65
Engine: Caterpillar 3126E Diesel
Rated Cap: 71 Passenger- 30,000 lbs.
It says a lot about the company that it knows the market and business environment and can adjust as needed like it has.
Native is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.