Cruise Control on a Frieghtliner FS-65

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

what was the brand of bus that DD had unlocked? if its a navistar then they can opush through the unlock at a navistar dealer..



-Christopher

When I tried to get mine unlocked I went to a few Navistar dealers and they would not touch it without a release letter from Allison, Allison says No Way on a 99. So other than buying a second computer that has it unlocked or is new enough to unlock I don't know what options I have. Some other places that would do the unlock without authorization didn't have the software for the earlier models Don't know what they consider old or new.

[cadillackid]

WTEC II is the old stuff that no one wants to work on. No one has the pro link took with the subscription any more . The base transmission is very similar on old and newer model 3000s but the TCM changed from a J1708 communication standard to a J1939 . Likewise the shift console is different too. So on a 3060 you’d have to replace the shifter pad to one that’s WTEC III capable if you swapped computers.

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

WTEC II is the old stuff that no one wants to work on. No one has the pro link took with the subscription any more . The base transmission is very similar on old and newer model 3000s but the TCM changed from a J1708 communication standard to a J1939 . Likewise the shift console is different too. So on a 3060 you’d have to replace the shifter pad to one that’s WTEC III capable if you swapped computers.

Plug and play, but no one said it would be easy. What year did they change to the J1939?

[cadillackid]

WTEC III released in late 98, typically school busses are a year or 2 behind so I’m guessing a lot of 99s and early 00s may still have the old.
The engine control diagnostics on navistar stayed 1708 till max force but certain items like transmissions ABS boxes seemed to be supported with 1939 in the 98 computer documentation.. the Allison 2000 was released in year 2000 and used the WTEC III style controls. All the navistar E engines by 98/99 seemed to show the J1939 connector as installed.

As all school bus stuff is, the exact dates for things are a muddy mess to figure out.
And as I found out too there were lots of revisions within. For example my year 00 ECM had the J1939 link and it worked sort of .. but the datalink was crude in the data points it sent over so while my electronic. Trans worked it was clunky in some aspects. I shoved a year 2004 engine ECM in and wow now my integration is damn near perfect and even the engine is smoother and quieter. On the Allison side there are literally dozens of TCM revisions and part numbers too..

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

WTEC II is the old stuff that no one wants to work on. No one has the pro link took with the subscription any more . The base transmission is very similar on old and newer model 3000s but the TCM changed from a J1708 communication standard to a J1939 . Likewise the shift console is different too. So on a 3060 you’d have to replace the shifter pad to one that’s WTEC III capable if you swapped computers.

My 02 will be WTEC III right?

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

what was the brand of bus that DD had unlocked? if its a navistar then they can opush through the unlock at a navistar dealer..



allison wont unlock the WTEC-II stuff. as it used very old tools and software that seems like are tough to get.. perhaps tough for the allison dealer to get so even if allison could make a config file for those old TCM's, it may be that the allison dealer or the diesel shop the bus was taken to has no access to the old software..



WTEC-III was released in 98. and likely didnt make itself out into the school bus world until mid-late 99 model year or even 00.. so being told a 99 is too old is completely plausible..



as for cruise and unsafe, navistar enabled cruise for anyone who wanted it.. in fact pretty much all of the 'E' engines (444E,466E,530E) had the buttons on the dash labelled cruise control.. they are used for idle-speed when the bus is in neutral and vehicle speed is 0. schools could order it turned on or off... the Customer-Fleet version of navistar software could turn it on.. (the software navistar gives away free)..


ive seen Freightliner school-busses with cruise that works... many of the newer C2's come with cruise enabled.. my guess is that on the FS-65 it was an option.. and seeing as most of the busses are Local route busses, why pay for an option that would almost never get used...



I dont have a 3126 or C7 to play with, but im looking into the CAT software just because im a scan tool junkie. lolol
-Christopher

I'll chip in on that if you want!

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Ab01ns

My 02 will be WTEC III right?

It should be.

[Native]

Originally Posted by Ab01ns

My 02 will be WTEC III right?

Please do not get your hopes up too much. Your bus is a 2002 FS-65 like mine. Freightliner was good and wrote the letter for Allison to unlock the 6th gear. However, the Allison 2000 did not have the internal gearing for the 6th gear (physically) until mid 2004 (at least that is the timeframe I have been told) so Allison could not write a program for the TCM that would unlock the 6th gear (which does not exist).


Cadillackid sent me a link to a place that has a kit which will physically add the 6th gear, then you would have to have the TCM programmed. All this costs $$$.


That said, I suppose there is a chance that your transmission was swapped out with a newer model which has the 6th gear. So first chance you get, take a photo of the name tag on the transmission and post it. Maybe someone can tell you if it has the 6th gear.

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by Native

Please do not get your hopes up too much. Your bus is a 2002 FS-65 like mine. Freightliner was good and wrote the letter for Allison to unlock the 6th gear. However, the Allison 2000 did not have the internal gearing for the 6th gear (physically) until mid 2004 (at least that is the timeframe I have been told) so Allison could not write a program for the TCM that would unlock the 6th gear (which does not exist).


Cadillackid sent me a link to a place that has a kit which will physically add the 6th gear, then you would have to have the TCM programmed. All this costs $$$.


That said, I suppose there is a chance that your transmission was swapped out with a newer model which has the 6th gear. So first chance you get, take a photo of the name tag on the transmission and post it. Maybe someone can tell you if it has the 6th gear.

Look what I have /humblebrag/ FS-65s with a 3060 exist they're just very rare. Well worth to me going for a shorter bus than I originally wanted. And yes, I called Thomas and they confirmed the 3060 in it. Also pretty sure the date for 2000 series that could go to 6th was 06/06

[Native]

Originally Posted by Ab01ns

Look what I have /humblebrag/ FS-65s with a 3060 exist they're just very rare. Well worth to me going for a shorter bus than I originally wanted. And yes, I called Thomas and they confirmed the 3060 in it. Also pretty sure the date for 2000 series that could go to 6th was 06/06

Attachment 31434

Ah good! Not dealing with an Allison 2000 then. Call the Freightliner Help Desk, ask for help unlocking your 6th gear. They will direct you to the right person. It will take about a week for their Engineering Department to review your case and come up with the letter needed by Allison. Allison also has an affidavit form SIL-19-TR-08 which you fill out and submit to the Allison dealer along with the letter from Freightliner.


I *was* going to include the Allison document but this machine is not letting me upload the attcchment.

[cadillackid]

yeah good point.. the 2000 series is in fact 05/06 model year timeframe before it was equipped with the 6 speed valve body..



that shifter pictured looks like the WTEC-III shift panel too...

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

yeah good point.. the 2000 series is in fact 05/06 model year timeframe before it was equipped with the 6 speed valve body..



that shifter pictured looks like the WTEC-III shift panel too...

Sweet. Comes stock with 5.77 gears but with a swap to 4.3 or 4.1 should have Rpms in 6th right around the sweet spot for fuel economy

[Ab01ns]

Look what I found under the dash. If could be wrong but I'm pretty sure this is the plug for the cruise engage switch

[EastCoastCB]

Wouldn't it be cool if they came already enabled and all we need is the switch/panel?

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Wouldn't it be cool if they came already enabled and all we need is the switch/panel?

Here's the back of a FL cruise control engage switch.

[cadillackid]

the wiring diagram shows pinkl and white for thje on off switch and pink brown and orange for the set / resume..



the wire colors could be different than the diagram

[Native]

Okay now you've got me all rev'd up. I think I'll take a trip to Freightliner and see what "J29506" has that ours does not.

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by Native

Okay now you've got me all rev'd up. I think I'll take a trip to Freightliner and see what "J29506" has that ours does not.

Please let me know. I have a faulty trans temp gauge and fuel gauge so when I get it back I'll be opening up the dash to fix thag and I'll keep this thread updated with my findings.

[Native]

I did go to Freightliner this evening. With the last 6 of the VIN from the FS-65 posted earlier (J29506), we were able to pull the cruise control schematic and also the part numbers (and price) for the two switches for cruise. There is an on/off switch and a set/resume switch. Of course, this trip did not say if just plugging the switches in will be enough. For that answer, we will have to wait for the Freightliner Engineering Department to do their thing. Stay tuned!

[cadillackid]

if you didnt buy the switches but got the schematics and they match any connectors you find in your bus then you could fashion up your own test switches