Cruise Control on a Frieghtliner FS-65

[Ab01ns]

Hey everyone. I'm looking at a Frieghtliner FS-65 but it doesn't have cruise control. This is one of my major requirements for a bus ( I'll be driving almost 4000km in 2 days from Toronto to Black rock city in this bus every year for the foreseeable future). Cruise control is a must. Has anyone added on cruise to their Fs-65 after purchase?

Cheers.
AB

[EastCoastCB]

Great question!
I've got a SWEET FS65 and want to add cruise.

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Great question!
I've got a SWEET FS65 and want to add cruise.

I called Thomas but I don't have the vin yet. They couldn't do anything without it. Other than cruise it's a sweet bus. Original owner is a bus company, full service records, DOT every 6 months and oil changes regular. It's a cat 3126 with a md3060 behind it. If I get it I will definitely be unlocking 6th gear. Much excitement!

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by Ab01ns

I called Thomas but I don't have the vin yet. They couldn't do anything without it. Other than cruise it's a sweet bus. Original owner is a bus company, full service records, DOT every 6 months and oil changes regular. It's a cat 3126 with a md3060 behind it. If I get it I will definitely be unlocking 6th gear. Much excitement!

Let us know how you get it unlocked. Many of us have been unsuccessful in getting Allison to ok it. They end up saying the bus is too old to allow the unlock. There have been some after market places recommended , but I find they don't have the necessary software to do it on the older models

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Let us know how you get it unlocked. Many of us have been unsuccessful in getting Allison to ok it. They end up saying the bus is too old to allow the unlock. There have been some after market places recommended , but I find they don't have the necessary software to do it on the older models

I know I guy who knows someone local with the cracked software, but I'd have to talk to him. Otherwise I could always try the Thomas/Allison route. I will ask about that and cruise when I call with the vin

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by Ab01ns

I know I guy who knows someone local with the cracked software, but I'd have to talk to him. Otherwise I could always try the Thomas/Allison route. I will ask about that and cruise when I call with the vin

I tried to do it with cracked software.. unless he has some saved CIN's that had 6th unlocked, its tough to do.. I learned that allison never lets even their elite dealers at the actual calibration files.. however the cracked allison DOC can load a different calibration in that has 6th unlocked.. theoretically we could get one TCM from each generation unlocked , download the CAL out of it and upload it into other people's TCMs.



I found out from ivestigating, that when getting allison 6th unlocked, they simply edit the CIN directly in their office, send a new Cal fike out and then the dealer flashes it onto your TCM.. but the dealer cant edit the Cal..



I had hoped to find 6th inhibit enabled as a CMC in the TCM. but wasnt so lucky with the couple TCMs I got into.. I was successful in flashing a 4th gen 5-only TCM into a 6th enabled by simply taking my cal file and flashing it onto the guy's bus.. in this case, the guy has a IC BE with a 6 speed 1000 in it.. it was only enabled as 5.. after doing the flash, he has 6 gears now..



the ones that you will be told are too old are typically Gen2 TCMs.. or "WTEC-II" logic from the mid 90s. it ran through till jan 98. if your bus is older than that. then you probably have WTEC-II which isnt compatible with allison DOC or any other current. scan tool except the old prolink stuff.




WTEC-III was introduced in physical year 1998.. so likely made it into a lot of trucks / busses for late 98 / 99+ model years.. WTEC-III supports J1939 abd is compatible with allison DOC (current allison scan tool).



Gen4 is mid 00;s and introduced 6 gears to the 1000/2000.. (some of the GMC 1000s got 6th in 05.. most of the rest didnt get 6 speed till 2006.. so if your bus has a 2000 series (2100,2200,2500PTS,2400) pre yeaer 2005/2006 it cant be upgraded to 6 speeds with a computer program.. )..


Gen5 is somewhere in the 2011/2012 timeframe and is still in use today.. it is harder to unlock stuff in as they invented "protected parameters".. there is cracked software to edit these.. but still no ability to edit cal..



if you have an A41(gen4) TCM you can break into it's OS and access the calibration with EFIlive Flashscan 2. and enable 6th gear.. as well as edit all of its shift tables..


most of these transmissions support J1939 commandsets.. its theoretically possible you can send a J1939 PGN / SPN combo to disable 6th inhibit and get 6th to operate... I dont have one to try.. though I do have the J1939 command-book for the 4th gen stuff. and what ive tested so far on my Gen4 works..



ECM / TCM "creative investigation" is a passion of mine.. was at it this weekend





Christopher

[ennonne]

Cruise Control

This has been mentioned here before, I forget the exact thread, but the website explains whet he did.

Not FS-65 specific, but may be adaptable?

I don't know your bus or powertrain, but if it's new enough to have an electronic pedal, you might look at this:

Cruise Control for GM LS Drive-by-Wire Engines

It plugs inline between the pedal and ECM, takes over sending a pedal signal to the ECM when in cruise mode.

[PNW_Steve]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

Gen4 is mid 00;s and introduced 6 gears to the 1000/2000.. (some of the GMC 1000s got 6th in 05.. most of the rest didnt get 6 speed till 2006.. so if your bus has a 2000 series (2100,2200,2500PTS,2400) pre yeaer 2005/2006 it cant be upgraded to 6 speeds with a computer program.. )..




if you have an A41(gen4) TCM you can break into it's OS and access the calibration with EFIlive Flashscan 2. and enable 6th gear.. as well as edit all of its shift tables..


most of these transmissions support J1939 commandsets.. its theoretically possible you can send a J1939 PGN / SPN combo to disable 6th inhibit and get 6th to operate... I dont have one to try.. though I do have the J1939 command-book for the 4th gen stuff. and what ive tested so far on my Gen4 works..



ECM / TCM "creative investigation" is a passion of mine.. was at it this weekend


Attachment 31135


Christopher

Christopher,

I have a 2002 MD-3060 with 6th locked out.

Do I understand correctly that I can enable 6th gear myself with EFI Live?

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by PNW_Steve

Christopher,

I have a 2002 MD-3060 with 6th locked out.

Do I understand correctly that I can enable 6th gear myself with EFI Live?

you are Gen3.. I dont know if EFI can enable Gen3.. the best way for you im thinking is we need to find a Cal from a similar vehicle that has the same Gen TCM..


your TCM has 2 connectors (Gen3). and will list throttle type and governed RPM on it... we find a TCM that has similar parameters with 6th enabled.. and then flash it onto your TCM..



there are often medium duty trucks wit hthe same engines that have 6th enabled... or non-school busses.. ie transits with same engine..



governed RPM is important as is throttle type.. this dictates when the trans will shift in kickdown mode as well as how it gets throttle info...

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

as for cruise control... the FS-65 is very similar to the FL60/70 chassis.. im thinking you look at an FL60/70 wiring diagram, poke the pins in the ECM and see if it just works.. it may already be enabled in the computer, just needs the buttons installed..
im pretty sure the 3126 was before the Multiplex system that the C7s got.. so its discreet switches for cruise..
-Christopher

[o1marc]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

the ones that you will be told are too old are typically Gen2 TCMs.. or "WTEC-II" logic from the mid 90s. it ran through till jan 98. if your bus is older than that. then you probably have WTEC-II which isnt compatible with allison DOC or any other current. scan tool except the old prolink stuff.






Christopher

Mine is a 99 and Allisons reason for not unlocking it was that it was too old. Which makes no sense to me at all. I don't see how age matters when Allison would have no liability.

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by ennonne

Cruise Control

This has been mentioned here before, I forget the exact thread, but the website explains whet he did.

Not FS-65 specific, but may be adaptable?

I don't know your bus or powertrain, but if it's new enough to have an electronic pedal, you might look at this:

Cruise Control for GM LS Drive-by-Wire Engines

It plugs inline between the pedal and ECM, takes over sending a pedal signal to the ECM when in cruise mode.

the second link.. it requires OBD2 data, ours has J1708 / J1939 data..


with my allison no-downshift woes I built a box that essentially does this..



in my case I found that my engine lugs and my trans never drops gears on hills even though the TCM clearly is requesting it.. at one point I found that my electronic pedal is a 0-5 volt signal to my engine ECM.. so I built a box that emulated the 0-5 volt analog signal..



since my J1708 data-bus provides vehicle speed as well as cruise-enabled and setpoint.. my case was easy... my box took over the pedal for kickdown only when the TCM didnt do its job..



but a modified version of this would be to expand on the algorithm , put a digital button in, a brake pedal switch, and a safety relay to the accelerator pedal, to brake.. (ie physically disconnect the box and re-connect the real pedal on a brake press.. in case said hobbyist project locked up in full throttle)..



you make the set speed off of what current speed is being read on the J1708 datalink, read the engine load factor PID and accelerator position PID to get an idea of how far your throttle is punched so the algortihm could apply but not over-shoot..



would take some code and a little hardware..



my box consisted of a Raspberry PI connected to a relay board and analog output board.. used a BB-electronics HDV100A3 to do the heavy hitting on reading the J1708 data-bus.. I did one using J1939 as its faster.. in fact with J1939 i think i could enable the aux-throttle input on my engine and push data PGN/SPN with no physical connection to the pedal whatsoever..



I love this stuff!!..

SOURCE:  0   GOT 61444 - F1 FF FF A8 1B FF FF FF
SPN: 899 Engine control mode: 0001  SPN: 190 Engine RPM Raw: 7080  Real RPM:885
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61442 - C5 CC 13 FF F7 CE 1B 03
SPN: 574 Trans Shift in Progress: 00  SPN: 573 Trans TCC Lock call: 01  SPN: 560 Trans Engaged status: 01
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61442 - C1 B2 0E FF F7 94 1A 03
SPN: 574 Trans Shift in Progress: 00  SPN: 573 Trans TCC Lock call: 00  SPN: 560 Trans Engaged status: 01
SOURCE:  0   GOT 61443 - FD 00 08 FF FF FF FF FF
SPN: 559 Trans KickDown call: 11  SPN: 558 Engine Low Idle status: 01  SPN: 91 TPS: 0  SPN: 92 Engine Load: 8
SOURCE:  15   GOT 61440 - F1 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
SPN: 572 Trans Retarder shift assist: 11  SPN: 571 Trans retarder brake switch: 11  SPN: 900 Retarder mode: 0001
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61442 - C1 12 0E FF F7 68 19 03
SPN: 574 Trans Shift in Progress: 00  SPN: 573 Trans TCC Lock call: 00  SPN: 560 Trans Engaged status: 01
SOURCE:  0   GOT 61444 - F1 FF FF 84 14 FF FF FF
SPN: 899 Engine control mode: 0001  SPN: 190 Engine RPM Raw: 5252  Real RPM:656.5
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61442 - C1 E0 0D FF F7 F4 18 03
SPN: 574 Trans Shift in Progress: 00  SPN: 573 Trans TCC Lock call: 00  SPN: 560 Trans Engaged status: 01
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61452 - 00 FB FF FF FF FF FF FF
SPN: 3030 TCC Ratio: 64.256
SOURCE:  0   GOT 61444 - F1 FF FF D2 14 FF FF FF
SPN: 899 Engine control mode: 0001  SPN: 190 Engine RPM Raw: 5330  Real RPM:666.25
SOURCE:  0   GOT 61444 - F1 FF FF C0 16 FF FF FF
SPN: 899 Engine control mode: 0001  SPN: 190 Engine RPM Raw: 5824  Real RPM:728
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61442 - C1 24 07 FF F7 38 16 03
SPN: 574 Trans Shift in Progress: 00  SPN: 573 Trans TCC Lock call: 00  SPN: 560 Trans Engaged status: 01
SOURCE:  3   GOT 61452 - 21 05 FF FF FF FF FF FF
SPN: 3030 TCC Ratio: 1.313
SOURCE:  0   GOT 61444 - F1 FF FF EC 25 FF FF FF
SPN: 899 Engine control mode: 0001  SPN: 190 Engine RPM Raw: 9708  Real RPM:1213.5
SOURCE:  0   GOT 61444 - F1 FF FF 38 25 FF FF FF
SPN: 899 Engine control mode: 0001  SPN: 190 Engine RPM Raw: 9528  Real RPM:1191

-Christopher

[cadillackid]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Mine is a 99 and Allisons reason for not unlocking it was that it was too old. Which makes no sense to me at all. I don't see how age matters when Allison would have no liability.

any idea if they said its WTEC-II or WTEC-III? i dont think they have support for the old prolink software required to flash the WTEC-II stuff..

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

as for cruise control... the FS-65 is very similar to the FL60/70 chassis.. im thinking you look at an FL60/70 wiring diagram, poke the pins in the ECM and see if it just works.. it may already be enabled in the computer, just needs the buttons installed..
im pretty sure the 3126 was before the Multiplex system that the C7s got.. so its discreet switches for cruise..
-Christopher

Definitely needs the buttons on mine.

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

as for cruise control... the FS-65 is very similar to the FL60/70 chassis.. im thinking you look at an FL60/70 wiring diagram, poke the pins in the ECM and see if it just works.. it may already be enabled in the computer, just needs the buttons installed..
im pretty sure the 3126 was before the Multiplex system that the C7s got.. so its discreet switches for cruise..
-Christopher

I'm going to have to try that. Hopefully the interrupt signals for pedal actuation are sent electronically and not from switches mounted on the pedals. I hope it's as easy as getting the right switches from Thomas and enabling it in the computer which hopefully any dealer with CAT software can do. I didn't mean to turn this into another Allison 6th thread. If I do get the bus though I will be exploring that avenue for sure. But let's try to keep this on topic plsthnkseveryone

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by EastCoastCB

Definitely needs the buttons on mine.

What engine do you have. Id try shorting the pins and see if at least you get the cruise light to go on.

[EastCoastCB]

Originally Posted by Ab01ns

What engine do you have. Id try shorting the pins and see if at least you get the cruise light to go on.

I've got a Cat 3126. I love it.
But my Navistars had the cruise buttons on the dash. This Thomas doesn't have any.

[cadillackid]

I dont know on. freightliner but on navistar, there is a brake switch signal into the ECM already.. so they use it for cruise as well as for de-fueling on ABS activation.. there is likely similar on the CAT..



ive seen freightliner wiring posted online before..
-Christopher

[Ab01ns]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

I dont know on. freightliner but on navistar, there is a brake switch signal into the ECM already.. so they use it for cruise as well as for de-fueling on ABS activation.. there is likely similar on the CAT..



ive seen freightliner wiring posted online before..
-Christopher

Look what I found [emoji847]

What confuses me is there's only one set/resume switch on the 2nd diagram...2009-10-08_043817_dispdiagram.pdf2009-10-08_042354_3126_wiring_diagram_and_codes.pdf

[cadillackid]

both sets of diagrams have 2 switches.. looks pretty standard and even shows what ECM pins they go to..

great find!!!


the first diragram shows a 70 pin body-builder connector.. one can hope the wires are stubbed off at the body builder connector... Nav-star has the same connector and has optional featires stubbed off..

-Christopher