DT466 Emissions Updates?

[tmckenna]

I know that when it comes to motors, especially diesels, the term "Pre-emissions" is a big selling point. Well I've been looking at buying an international for quite a while now and am curious as to how much the emissions updates effect the performance and reliability of these motors. As far as I have read there was an emissions update in 2004 and then another in 2007.

Is it worth it to look for a Pre-2004 or Pre-2007 truck because the pre-emissions motors are that much better? Or are the newer motors just as good with a couple more electrical quirks than the earlier ones?

[magnakansas]

The “e” part started around 1995. Yea they can get icky around those years. The cost of the emissions parts hurts.

I have gone through much trouble to stay away from even the early electric injector engines.



William

[tmckenna]

Originally Posted by magnakansas

The “e” part started around 1995. Yea they can get icky around those years. The cost of the emissions parts hurts.

I have gone through much trouble to stay away from even the early electric injector engines.



William

I don't think I have much of an option in that regard. I'm looking for a 4x4 (not bus) chassis and 99% of 4x4 internationals that I'm finding are newer than 1995. Would you suggest a cummins or even a cat over a Post-1995 Dt466?

[o1marc]

Yes, the 03 and before are desirable due to not having any of the mandated EPA regs that could be problematic, hard to diagnose and expensive to repair. Unfortunately those buses are getting harder to find good ones left.

[tmckenna]

Originally Posted by o1marc

Yes, the 03 and before are desirable due to not having any of the mandated EPA regs that could be problematic, hard to diagnose and expensive to repair. Unfortunately those buses are getting harder to find good ones left.

So Model Year 03 is the latest I would want? Is there a big difference between the 1995-2003 DT466e and the pre-1995 DT466?

[djdalfaro]

Originally Posted by tmckenna

So Model Year 03 is the latest I would want? Is there a big difference between the 1995-2003 DT466e and the pre-1995 DT466?

There is a HUGE difference in my opinion. Years below are -ish...
1993 and earlier: The DT series motors in buses (DT360 & DT466) were equipped with various models of mechanical fuel pumps. Ambac, A, MW, and a few others I believe. The later you get the better. The MW being the best, almost as good as the P-Pump which came out in...

1994-1995: The DT360 was dropped at this time, and the DT408 was added to the DT lineup. It uses the same block as the DT466, but has a different bottom end, and no wastegate on the turbo, and a few other differences. You could actually upgrade the bottom end to have a DT466 or even a I530 if you wanted. These models have the best mechanical fuel pump. The Bosch P-Pump. This is the same fuel pump that is on the Cummins 12-valve motors (6BT5.9, and 6CT8.3), and is the same fuel pump that all the 'Dodge Truck Bois' love. The fuel pump is easily tunable to produce more power, and increase the redline.

1996-1998: The DT408 was replaced with the T444E and was never seen again, and buses began being equipped with the HEUI injected (electronic/hydraulic) DT466E. You can still find buses from these years with the mechanical P-Pump, but you'll have to visually verify as both were released. It's not hard to tell the difference from a picture of the motor.

IMHO the P-Pumped DT motors are about as good as you can get. My own DT408 is a single wire motor. Except the starter cable, I need no electricity to keep it running. There are no sensors to go bad, no computers to mess with. It doesn't matter how many wires I cut, I'll never create a no-start condition (as long as I don't cut the starter wire). Any issues with it running can be narrowed down to a mechanical part that I can diagnose, and most issues can be solved on the side of the road with a basic tool set.

I didn't cover the post-emissions 2003+ DT466Es, because I never considered them so didn't research them.

[PorchDog]

I feel like I was very fortunate to find a 1996 short bus with a DT466 -- P-Pump, and a 5 speed manual tranny. The five speed may get old-- but as you say if you can crank the motor over it will run until you pull the kill lever out.

It may not make the most power, and it may use a little more fuel, but it is very simple and rock solid reliable.

This is just another case of where the EPA has affected every facet of our lives in some way or another-- from washing machines that will not fill with straight hot water, direct injection/turbo gasoline engines with start stop technology, and all this stuff shortens the useful life of whatever they are installed in.

When these get old-- (IF they are able to get old) the electronics with total them.

[cadillackid]

I did some studying and talking to various people (mainly those who run school routes in ther north)..


the 2004-early 2007 DT466E contains the EGR system and associated EGR coolers.. while there were some issues with these engines, EGR issues were not a huge horrible issue.. lack of maintenance most definitely cused cavitation issues of these engines much more than previous generations of the 466..



an underlying themse of EGR cooler failiures in the Maxxfroce DT seems to be related around heat. or lack thereof.. northern busses with working webasto coolant heaters suffered far less WGR cooler and headgasket failures than route busses without.



less VGT turbo failures were also experienced on these busses as well.



Turbos were a big issue on the 2010+ regardless..


if you are going out and buying an emission DT466E / MFDT, its imperative for a northern bus to have a working aux heater.. and also if a bus has low coolant, dont buy it..



EGR coolers are a couple grand in PARTS alone to replace... the upper one isnt too bad to change.. the lower one is a &^%$&^*...