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Old 05-13-2024, 03:38 PM   #1
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Year: 2003
Chassis: FE300
Engine: DT466e 215HP - A2500
DT466e Timing Cover Oil Leak

Hey Everyone,

I was hoping my first post about my bus would be a happy one but I got bad news today after finally finding a good mechanic to dig in and inspect things.

I have a 2003 Intl. FE300 w/ dt466e, A2500, 40ft high roof, lots of storage bays underneath. Basically the perfect platform for me. I'm 6' tall but don't want to raise roofs and was excited to keep fab work to a minimum in general given all the storage and height already I was also excited about the model year since it was right before EGR, blah blah blah.

At first glance the mechanic thought it was the oil pump, but after steaming underneath and letting it run some, he found a leak coming from the air compressor. Then after a little more time, he noticed there was also some leakage from the rear front/timing cover and called me back again with the news.
So, I have some oil seepage from the rear front/timing cover, but there is also some blow-by. This can be felt from the big breather tub that hangs down by the oil pan.

The company I got it from in ID said they were told when they bought it in 2019 that it had already had an in-frame at one point in it's life. Who knows though as that's essentially just hearsay. They also refused to give me the service records. (tbf it was an as-is auction, but still) First the story was they didn't have them. Then someone else told me the auction website wouldn't let them release them to buyers. Then when they cut ties with that website, they told me they needed to keep them for DOT audits. (never heard of a copy machine?)
I'm not too happy with them. At this point I feel like there's a good chance they knew about this problem.

I have not really done much conversion wise. I have been slowly working on doing a quick and dirty kind of conversion just to get it legal as an RV (in Wisconsin) to start with and then I was going to take a test trip or two before really digging in and converting it properly.

So I guess I'm looking for some insights/advice about whether I should even bother trying to do much of anything with this vehicle.
Fixing the front cover issue alone is going to be almost three times what I paid for for the bus to begin with. (~$15,000) It also needs some other things but I can probably do those myself if I buy some heavy duty equipment like jacks: Front leaf springs, rear airbags, shocks all around, maybe new drums up front. It also needs an alignment at least, as it's pulled to the right a bit since I got it.

I'm kinda thinking of just living with the oil leaks and moving forward with a slightly more involved, but still dirt cheap build as opposed to eventually going all in and gutting and rebuilding the interior to be really nice and all that. But idk. The mechanic said he'd worry about taking it on cross country trips, but seems to mostly just be worried about a sudden break down being really inconvenient and expensive. I do have AAA+RV though.

How many of your buses leak oil? I've driven subarus a long time so I'm used to keeping up on oil, but that's mostly burning it. If a vehicle starts to actually drip, I don't tolerate that for long cuz I don't like leaving spots and I don't wanna have to worry about where I park it n stuff like that.

I did already drive it 1500 miles to get it home last year after I bought it. It didn't seem to loose much oil at all. I thought it drove pretty great, but being new to any kind of big rig, it's not like I would know really. I haven't checked the dipstick after it sat through the winter. I will when I get it back from the shop.

I'm pretty bummed. I've been getting all sorts of excited about bus life, skoolie life, rubbing shoulders with the truckers, all that fun stuff. This kinda makes me wanna throw in the towel since it's not reasonable at this point to put much money into it. But idk. Maybe I can just get by for a while anyway? (but then what?) Maybe I should cut my losses now and throw away money on a different hobby/adventure? What would you think? What would you do?

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Old 05-13-2024, 04:32 PM   #2
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Mine leaks oil. I hope it does being 40 years old, because if it didn't, I'd question if there was oil even in it. Also has a little coolant leak, power steering leak, fuel leak. It's old, it's going to leak........

Now regarding leaks. Mine doesn't leak enough for me to worry about. I've never added any at a regular basis, maybe once a year just to make up for the spot here or there left on the pavement wherever I park. But if you're putting a quart in every 100 miles or so, that's a leak I wouldn't live with.

Small leaks aren't going to cause issues. It's the way of the road on anything with age or mileage. You'll spend a fortune trying to remedy it as you found out.

So if it's not a large amount, then I wouldn't concern myself. I would however concern myself with your engine, as I believe that year dt466e had inner front cover issues with coolant getting into the engine. It's a big deal to fix, so you should probably start throwing holy water on it now and praying it never happens. That's probably something you never read about regarding the "glorious" dt466e.
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Old 05-13-2024, 04:41 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
Mine leaks oil. I hope it does being 40 years old, because if it didn't, I'd question if there was oil even in it. Also has a little coolant leak, power steering leak, fuel leak. It's old, it's going to leak........

Now regarding leaks. Mine doesn't leak enough for me to worry about. I've never added any at a regular basis, maybe once a year just to make up for the spot here or there left on the pavement wherever I park. But if you're putting a quart in every 100 miles or so, that's a leak I wouldn't live with.

Small leaks aren't going to cause issues. It's the way of the road on anything with age or mileage. You'll spend a fortune trying to remedy it as you found out.

So if it's not a large amount, then I wouldn't concern myself. I would however concern myself with your engine, as I believe that year dt466e had inner front cover issues with coolant getting into the engine. It's a big deal to fix, so you should probably start throwing holy water on it now and praying it never happens. That's probably something you never read about regarding the "glorious" dt466e.

all of the NGD/E 466's could have timing cover issues if there was poor coolant maintenance... something often happens woth schools as busses get small coolant leaks in the heaters and they just keep adding new coolant and not the proper SCA... although I thought by 03, Navistar had mandated ELC coolant, oil leaks a little less common but still indicative of a failing timing cover... ive never seen one Not get worse over time... definitely not a fun job to do.. I did once JB-weld a transmission with a crack and got another 5 years out of it
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Old 05-13-2024, 05:39 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Booyah45828 View Post
So if it's not a large amount, then I wouldn't concern myself. I would however concern myself with your engine, as I believe that year dt466e had inner front cover issues with coolant getting into the engine. It's a big deal to fix, so you should probably start throwing holy water on it now and praying it never happens. That's probably something you never read about regarding the "glorious" dt466e.

Yeah I was not aware of the cavitation issue before I bought this. I wasn't aware of much before I bought this.
I kinda went with the dt466 because everyone says the cummins 5.9 was a bit small for full 40fters. Now that I think about it though, is that feeling that others share kinda leftover from before overdrive and lockup were more available? (I don't want RE cuz the back is supposed to be a motorcycle garage)

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Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
all of the NGD/E 466's could have timing cover issues if there was poor coolant maintenance... something often happens woth schools as busses get small coolant leaks in the heaters and they just keep adding new coolant and not the proper SCA... although I thought by 03, Navistar had mandated ELC coolant, oil leaks a little less common but still indicative of a failing timing cover... ive never seen one Not get worse over time... definitely not a fun job to do.. I did once JB-weld a transmission with a crack and got another 5 years out of it
Mine does have the extended life coolant.
When you talk of failing timing covers only getting worse, are you talking specifically for external oil leaks, internal coolant leaks, or just across the board?
We talking months or years?

Idk if I should keep going as cheap as possible to get my feet wet while I keep my eyes out for one worth putting money into, or if I should just bail on buses (for now at least) and put that money into my subarus and motorcycles. (Or maybe a house if I find a needle in this low inventory haystack) If I can just keep an eye on fluids and be fine for a few years, that'd probably be cool. My plan was to go on a few trips with the super cheap "conversion" build anyway. The mechanic has me kinda spooked though cuz technically he's right, I can probably only have so much faith in it without properly fixing things.
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Old 05-13-2024, 06:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by thatonetylerguy View Post
The company I got it from in ID said they were told when they bought it in 2019 that it had already had an in-frame at one point in it's life. Who knows though as that's essentially just hearsay. They also refused to give me the service records. (tbf it was an as-is auction, but still) First the story was they didn't have them. Then someone else told me the auction website wouldn't let them release them to buyers. Then when they cut ties with that website, they told me they needed to keep them for DOT audits. (never heard of a copy machine?)
I'm not too happy with them. At this point I feel like there's a good chance they knew about this problem.

So if the company that you got it from takes any kind of government money, you can actually FOIA the maintenance records from them.



There is a statute on how to do this, and often a cost (usually around $30) that can sometimes be waived, but for your purposes, it's pretty much a hard no. They can also charge you some "reasonable fees" for the cost of the printing and shipping the records to you, but it should generally be reasonable. Think of it as spending $100.00 or less to get a copy of your vehicle's maintenance records; now, it might also show that you were lied to regarding your bus, but to be perfectly honest, that's a case that you are generally going to lose--I promise you that one. But you could still "force" their hand when it comes to ponying up the maintenance records, with the full force of the law backing you up.


If you think you might be interested in this, drop me a line, and we'll chat in DMs while I figure out what it takes in your location, as well as what other things you might be able to do in order to figure out the true history of your bus. If not, well, I wish you luck.


As far as what I would do in your shoes, it honestly depends on how well it's running, and how much I think I could get out of it. It might be cheaper to do some kind of a re-power than to fix what it is that you've got, in which case, I would just buy an old block, rebuild it on a stand, and then swap it out with what is already in there.
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Old 05-13-2024, 07:44 PM   #6
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in the cases ive seen it was external coolant leaks caused bny cavitatiom of the timing cover.. there is an innmer and an outer cover... if you get exremely lucky the damage is to the outer cover which is Much easier to change than having to do both..



that said, most times ive seen it was the inner cover damaged.. and that causes the seal to not seat in correctly, thus the leak..



iom not sure which cover is more responsible for an oil leak.... also when you take things apart and disturb it.. you always run the risk of uncovering other issues... ie you think its just the seal or the outer cover then when you open it up you see the signs of cavitation to the inner cover... you have to be ready and willing to replace both. of course an FE transit style bus complicates things because of access.. Labor intensive job. ive helped with one but never done a whole one..



Booyah has probably done them and maybe knows what the Book hours are for it. I cant imagine it being any less than 30 or 40.. doing the inner cover means that everything that drives off the timing gearsd is affected.. air compressor, powered steering, LPOP, HPOP.. plus other things that get in the way.. radiator, intercooler, fan hub, water pump, alternator.. any A/C compressors you may have... harmonic balancer..



I have a decent amount of tools and some mechanical skills so if it were mine and i didsnt need to drive it for awhile id probably tackle it... I would not recommend it for someone who hasnt al;ready turned a few wrenches and is familiar with getting stuck fasteners loose (the bolts on various accesories are metal, the cover is aluminum)... and it takes being organized.. you go enough layers deep that it is imperative to separate and label the bolts you have taken out as you will forget where they go otherwise.. also imperative to read the service documents and use a torque wrench...
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Old 05-13-2024, 07:54 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by thatonetylerguy View Post
Hey Everyone,


Fixing the front cover issue alone is going to be almost three times what I paid for for the bus to begin with. (~$15,000) It also needs some other things but I can probably do those myself if I buy some heavy duty equipment like jacks: Front leaf springs, rear airbags, shocks all around, maybe new drums up front. It also needs an alignment at least, as it's pulled to the right a bit since I got it.
I don't know what your back yard mechanic skillset is like but yes, it is an involved job to replace the front timing cover, especially on an FE bus but it really is not difficult to do, just very labor intensive.

I hope the $15,000 number you threw out there is not what the mechanic is charging, if so, Run away quickly!

So tell us, are you a wrench spinner or a credit card type of guy?

If you got the space to work on the bus and patience, I would go ahead and do the repair yourself. There are quite a few good people here that will no doubt help you with questions and tips on how to do it!

You decided to build a skoolie and to be honest, learning how to diagnose and fix your bus comes with the territory.
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Old 05-14-2024, 12:25 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
If you think you might be interested in this, drop me a line, and we'll chat in DMs while I figure out what it takes in your location, as well as what other things you might be able to do in order to figure out the true history of your bus. If not, well, I wish you luck.

As far as what I would do in your shoes, it honestly depends on how well it's running, and how much I think I could get out of it. It might be cheaper to do some kind of a re-power than to fix what it is that you've got, in which case, I would just buy an old block, rebuild it on a stand, and then swap it out with what is already in there.
Thank you. I'm gonna try them one more time but I might end up messaging you about that. It seemed to run well the 1500 miles home, but it definitely needs some exercise. Is it really that many less hours to swap out the whole engine though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cadillackid View Post
in the cases ive seen it was external coolant leaks caused bny cavitatiom of the timing cover.. there is an innmer and an outer cover... if you get exremely lucky the damage is to the outer cover which is Much easier to change than having to do both..

I have a decent amount of tools and some mechanical skills so if it were mine and i didsnt need to drive it for awhile id probably tackle it... I would not recommend it for someone who hasnt al;ready turned a few wrenches and is familiar with getting stuck fasteners loose (the bolts on various accesories are metal, the cover is aluminum)... and it takes being organized.. you go enough layers deep that it is imperative to separate and label the bolts you have taken out as you will forget where they go otherwise.. also imperative to read the service documents and use a torque wrench...
Pretty sure it's the inner cover, so I've accepted that for now. Are there other things I might run into and should look out for if I get in there?
Since the compressor comes off anyway, that would get taken care of.
Common/easy things to mess up on? Yeah, mechanic said ~40 hrs.

The fact you said "some" mechanical skills gives me hope. lol
I've turned a good amount of wrenches and had to cut/grind/tap a few things here and there. I've gotten pretty meticulous too. I love me some factory service manual. But yeah, this seems like cardboard box punch through diagrams kinda stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ewo1 View Post
I don't know what your back yard mechanic skillset is like but yes, it is an involved job to replace the front timing cover, especially on an FE bus but it really is not difficult to do, just very labor intensive.

I hope the $15,000 number you threw out there is not what the mechanic is charging, if so, Run away quickly!

So tell us, are you a wrench spinner or a credit card type of guy?

If you got the space to work on the bus and patience, I would go ahead and do the repair yourself. There are quite a few good people here that will no doubt help you with questions and tips on how to do it!

You decided to build a skoolie and to be honest, learning how to diagnose and fix your bus comes with the territory.
I have become a pretty dang good home mechanic. Haven't done serious engine stuff yet but it is the logical next step. My subaru is about due for a new timing set and I do feel confident enough to do that at this point. It's a '98, 310k miles. I drive it cross country several times a year and I've done ~80% of the work and it's had a good deal of work. Motorcycles I do 100% Just thumpers but I've rebuilt carbs and front ends.
I try to be very by the book, (I'm a computer guy) and appreciate the value of clean, flush mating surfaces and torque values/patterns.

I do have access to space and tools. I'll need to buy more cuz what we have is for light duty, but like you say, I decided to buy a skoolie. I did plan on learning and fixing and getting familiar, just not this quickly. lol
I appreciate you all.


Well, ya'll got me half convinced. Let's see what we can do about the rest.
How much of a stretch might this be from how experienced I sound so far?
I have a good manual for the engine already (EGES-210-1) but are there good resources like that for the body and chassis? Or is it a lot simpler than I'm thinking because I'm used to little japanese cars?
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Old 05-14-2024, 06:48 AM   #9
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you got this.. when I helped on one of these, the needed skills are exactly what you have, being meticulous, patient and organized... because you go layers deep its necessary.. the inexperienced guy that tosses all the parts and bolts and parts in a pile would struggle.. the person who has cardboard templates with holes punched for the bolts and takes a lot of pictures will do 100% just fine...



as for my mechanical skills, im not a welder and not really machine shop material.. (though I have turned a bushing or two on dads lathe).. ive done things like tranny and axle swaps, assembled engines, transmissions.. put together hotrods.. electronics, added A/C.. etc.. ive made a part or two here and there.. (brackets and mounts, stuf like that).. always hired out my welding and body work..



im also a computer guy ... (started out in the late 70s and was a teenage 80s Hacker that learned to code) and now own a couple companies in the network / VoIP realm..



like i say you got this.. I say get the tools out and go...
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Old 05-14-2024, 09:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatonetylerguy View Post
Thank you. I'm gonna try them one more time but I might end up messaging you about that. It seemed to run well the 1500 miles home, but it definitely needs some exercise. Is it really that many less hours to swap out the whole engine though?



Pretty sure it's the inner cover, so I've accepted that for now. Are there other things I might run into and should look out for if I get in there?
Since the compressor comes off anyway, that would get taken care of.
Common/easy things to mess up on? Yeah, mechanic said ~40 hrs.

The fact you said "some" mechanical skills gives me hope. lol
I've turned a good amount of wrenches and had to cut/grind/tap a few things here and there. I've gotten pretty meticulous too. I love me some factory service manual. But yeah, this seems like cardboard box punch through diagrams kinda stuff.



I have become a pretty dang good home mechanic. Haven't done serious engine stuff yet but it is the logical next step. My subaru is about due for a new timing set and I do feel confident enough to do that at this point. It's a '98, 310k miles. I drive it cross country several times a year and I've done ~80% of the work and it's had a good deal of work. Motorcycles I do 100% Just thumpers but I've rebuilt carbs and front ends.
I try to be very by the book, (I'm a computer guy) and appreciate the value of clean, flush mating surfaces and torque values/patterns.

I do have access to space and tools. I'll need to buy more cuz what we have is for light duty, but like you say, I decided to buy a skoolie. I did plan on learning and fixing and getting familiar, just not this quickly. lol
I appreciate you all.


Well, ya'll got me half convinced. Let's see what we can do about the rest.
How much of a stretch might this be from how experienced I sound so far?
I have a good manual for the engine already (EGES-210-1) but are there good resources like that for the body and chassis? Or is it a lot simpler than I'm thinking because I'm used to little japanese cars?
Resources for the chassis…. Call your lical international stealer, give them the vin and ask fir the line set ticket ( build sheet) for your vin. It will identify most all components on your chassis.

For wiring diagrams i posted quite a few linka for your bus. I myself have 2 RE 300 busses.

https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f37/a...kes-39364.html


https://www.skoolie.net/forums/f49/a...ams-25055.html
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Old 05-14-2024, 10:01 AM   #11
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This isn't a rant to you, but I've never understood the crap that people will take on the smaller engines. HP and torque is what you need to look at and I've seen some dt466's come with lower hp rating then a similar bus with a 5.9 cummins. Now the dt466 is capable of more, simply because of it's larger displacement, but if you have the at545(I know that you don't), what does that really matter?

And what's the worse that happens with a smaller engine? going slower up hill? If you're going up the rockies I assure you there will be a semi going as slow or slower then you are anyways. Plus, once you're at the top, are you gonna go 70+ mph on the way down? Please don't for the sake of others around you. You're in the rockies, go slow in the right lane and enjoy the scenery around you.

Again, not a rant at you personally, but I really don't know why the skoolie community has an infatuation for the dt466 or the isc, and then act like every other engine is subpar. I've had just as many, if not more issues with the dt466 and 8.3 engines in the fleet as I've had with any of the others. We've had cat c7's that have had nothing more then maintenance and they're supposedly the worst skoolie engine out there. But then a guy will get a maxxforce dt and act like it's gold because it's a DT

With that said, we've billed out thousands for injectors and hpops on some c7's. But the dt466e is a heui engine too and can cost just as much on a bill when SHTF.

Quote:
I'm kinda thinking of just living with the oil leaks and moving forward with a slightly more involved, but still dirt cheap build as opposed to eventually going all in and gutting and rebuilding the interior to be really nice and all that. But idk. The mechanic said he'd worry about taking it on cross country trips, but seems to mostly just be worried about a sudden break down being really inconvenient and expensive. I do have AAA+RV though.
IMO, this is what you need to do. You paid 5k for this, put a simple, basic conversion into it, roll with the leaks, and have the time of your life. And when it finally does inevitably sh!t the bed, salvage what you can and buy another bus, dump thousands into fixing it, or look back fondly and walk away with the memories.

Don't look at this as an investment and certainly don't dump loads of cash into this like it is one, as 99% of the time you'll NEVER get that money back out of it. The 1% is left is for the people that are buying and selling these for 10's of thousands of dollars, and those people do so for reasons that I'll never understand.
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Old 05-14-2024, 10:06 AM   #12
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IDK what the book hours are off the top of my head. It's a week+ in the shop and it's faster and cheaper for us to swap in a reman FYI. And the reman will typically have a warranty whereas any repair would be warrantied by us.
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Old 05-14-2024, 04:57 PM   #13
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Talking

I have a 1996 NGD with a mechanical fuel pump. (P-Pump...)

Are those timing covers affected by this?

Also, I do agree that the 5.9 Cummins may not get the credit they deserve. one thing I think about is all the aftermarket support, and the fact you "might" be able to find an entire engine out of a pickup to do a swap if you managed to have some type of catastrophic failure. Pre pandemic I bought a 1996 2wd Dodge with 232,000 miles that runs perfect for $3250.00. That would be far cheaper to rob an engine out of that than to buy a reman or even a used DT466, plus the size and weight of a DT would be a bugger to deal with.

I have been guilty of drinking the DT466 cool aid. (Happy owner of two mechanicals...) Why? As my wife says....

"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing..."
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Old 05-14-2024, 07:28 PM   #14
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DT466E coolant leak

While on this thread I thought I would show you my fix for a customer on the dreaded timing cover coolant leak on DT466E. The aluminum timing cover expands and contracts with temperature change and walks it around putting side forces on the thin walls that hold the gasket (they are real thin). Now the gasket is a rubber rib that sits down in the trenches in the cover and sees the pressure in the coolant system. I found the gasket to be folded over and allowing coolant to seep places it wasn't supposed to be (that big hole is where the water pump goes). There was plenty of corrosion in that trench and that didn't help. As you can see I put a couple of pieces of steel in the trench and welded the rib back up after a good sand blasting to get it clean and added some extra material to stiffen it up a bit. This cover got re-installed and hasn't been any problem since. On another note I have seen where someone changes out the air compressor on the same engine and over tightens the bolts then the front cover cracks, a weak spot on a great engine. I can probably repair one of those leaks also, it's just aluminum. The air compressor mount is directly across from the water pump, smaller hole is crankshaft seal.
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Old 05-14-2024, 07:28 PM   #15
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Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
any DT can have the timing cover issue.. the fact is most dont... there are a zillion of them out there.. all over the place so yes alot of them are going to show up in a repair shop... every engine has some kind of achilles heal.. the Cat C7's could possibnly have Acert issues.. but most didnt. the DT series engines can cavitate with poor coolant maintenance or the timing cover can be an issue but the vast majority dont.. the 5.9 has the '53 bloick and the killer dowel pin... the 8.3 ISC could have CAPS issues and camshaft problems..but most didnt.. the 7.3 could have?? the old 3 box systems had electronics problems? maybe? oil leaks were something alot did fight on the 7.3.. the 6.0 (VT365) suffered from EGR and turbo actuator and head bolt issues...but many many 6.0;s are *STILL* out there getting the job donw.. the Maxxforce line of engines suffered all kinds of issues and probaly are truly the only stay away from engines out there as a much higher percentage of those suffered issues.. enough that IH got sued over it and pretty ,uch stop makming engines because of it..



the IH 'DT' series engines were brute force workhorse every day tractor engines that had truck engines created.. and in the era of medium duty engines.. having a smallerf engine that fit in a medium size truck like a Loadstar and was wet-sleeve was a HUGE thing.. they got the reputation for literally lasting forever... so the engine lived on in its mechanical form with several versions.. the DT360(87-93), and DT466(mid 70s through 98 in mechanical form).. in 94 the DT360 was dropped (the T444E (7.3) was now the budget engine.. a DT408 was introduced and the DT466 came out as a redesigned.. NGD.. serpentine belt. gear drive poweered steering and air compressor.. and P-pump..



the mechanical DT's had a huyge reputation and following.. in 95 the first electronic injection DT466E came out.. the mechanical continued through 98 in the Amtran Genesis school bus.. (an FE transit)...


the DT466E had some issues being it was a new concept.. the HEUI.. but nothing show stopping and it proved in its gen 1 (electronics updated in 97/9 to be a good reliable engine... Gen 2 DT466E came out in 2004 with the addition of EGR and a variable geometry turbo.. the EPA was responsible for that... and thats where the troubles really started to begin.. EGR issues popped up ..turnbo actuator issues came along.. and honestly more of the rtiming cover leaks ive seen were in the 04-07 than were in the previous generations..


but really i stand by my point that care and maintenance are key on any engine.. diesels need to be taken care of.. the fuel, the oil, the coolant, the tranny fluid, the powered steering oil. dont get them hot, dont freeze them.. dont over tighten the bolts in aluminum parts things warp and leak) keep the filters clean..



who knows why this bus leaks oil.. maybe it got overheated.. (the computer would tell you that).. maybe someone replaced a part attached to the timing cover and honked the hell out of the bolts and warped it.. maybe it was apart before.. since the school is treating the maint records like classified documents its hard to tell....



I have no idea how much oil it leaks.. if it leaves a big puddle on the ground id fix it.. if it leaves a drop or 2 on the ground id drive it.. all 3 of my busses leave a drop or 2 of oil on the ground after they are parked from a decent length drive..
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Old 05-14-2024, 07:33 PM   #16
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbus Ohio
Posts: 18,920
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Carpenter
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DTA360 / MT643
Rated Cap: 7 Row Handicap
Quote:
Originally Posted by PorchDog View Post
I have a 1996 NGD with a mechanical fuel pump. (P-Pump...)

Are those timing covers affected by this?

Also, I do agree that the 5.9 Cummins may not get the credit they deserve. one thing I think about is all the aftermarket support, and the fact you "might" be able to find an entire engine out of a pickup to do a swap if you managed to have some type of catastrophic failure. Pre pandemic I bought a 1996 2wd Dodge with 232,000 miles that runs perfect for $3250.00. That would be far cheaper to rob an engine out of that than to buy a reman or even a used DT466, plus the size and weight of a DT would be a bugger to deal with.

I have been guilty of drinking the DT466 cool aid. (Happy owner of two mechanicals...) Why? As my wife says....

"Anything worth doing is worth overdoing..."

rerally any of them could have timing cover issues. but the troubles ive seen have only been with 94+... where the timing cover got much larger to handle the gear drive air compressor and gear drive powered steering.. I dont know if the seals on the older timing cover were the slot and runbber type or not.. ive never seen pr hasd an issue with a timing leak on the older DT. looking at my DT360 it appears the timing cover is not very big on it.. so am guessing the pre 94 stuff never had an issue..
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Old 05-14-2024, 07:48 PM   #17
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Join Date: May 2015
Location: Central Tx.
Posts: 2,027
Year: 1999
Chassis: Amtran / International
Engine: DT466E HT 250HP - Md3060
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyrick View Post
....
As you can see I put a couple of pieces of steel in the trench and welded the rib back up after a good sand blasting to get it clean and added some extra material to stiffen it up a bit. This cover got re-installed and hasn't been any problem since. On another note I have seen where someone changes out the air compressor on the same engine and over tightens the bolts then the front cover cracks, a weak spot on a great engine. I can probably repair one of those leaks also, it's just aluminum. The air compressor mount is directly across from the water pump, smaller hole is crankshaft seal.
When I did my in-frame I had a similar failure on my front cover. My son is a good TIG welder and we discussed doing something similar to what you did but i the end I found a good cover for $600 bucks and just replaced it. I hope there is no next time but seeing what you did.... KUDOS!
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Old 05-15-2024, 07:53 AM   #18
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Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 307
Year: 1996
Coachwork: BlueBird
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT 466 Mech. Spicer 5 speed
Rated Cap: 34
Smile

Yes, the photos of those front cover repairs is impressive. One more example of how many gifted folks (and I am certainly not one of them) we have on this forum.

Folks who can actually "fix" stuff...
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Old 05-15-2024, 08:45 AM   #19
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: West Ohio
Posts: 3,764
Year: 1984
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: International 1753
Engine: 6.9 International
Rated Cap: 65
Looks like a good repair sportyrick.

Like CK, I've seen it primarily in post 04 engines with egr. Any of them could do it because the design of the cover is similar among all the years of the NGD and after engine.

I don't buy the thermal bit regarding the busted channels. I think it's something that happens overtime and has to do with nitrites in the coolant that was factory installed. I feel it, along with being bolted to an iron engine block, corrodes/or softens the aluminum. When it's new it's fine, just over time it becomes weakened and then breaks, mixing fluids.
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