Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-01-2013, 10:23 PM   #1
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 30
Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

I have read that diesels cost more to maintain, but are more powerful and economical on fuel. As far as a gasser, apparently, they cost less to maintain, but are worse on fuel consumption.

So, which wins out for a school bus converted to full-time home on wheels?

Thanks!

SweetBearCub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 09:07 AM   #2
New Member
 
thecoolbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 6
Year: 1995
Coachwork: International
Chassis: 3800
Engine: Navistar DT444e
Rated Cap: 65
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

I prefer diesel, but if you live where its cold gas might be better, diesel turns to gel at around 0 degrees F for #2 diesel, and -25 degrees for #1 diesel.
thecoolbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 11:53 AM   #3
Bus Nut
 
bapos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleburne TX
Posts: 692
Year: 2001
Chassis: International Amtran RE
Engine: DT466E/MD3060
Rated Cap: 78
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

I have worked on gas engines for many years in regular cars for many years. When I bought my bus I didn't put enough research in to the diesel vs gas debate. I do own a duramax 1 ton truck so I have experiences both sides when it comes to keeping them up.

other than more filters and more oil... over all the additional cost is what makes having a diesel more expensive or at least that has been the case with my 1 ton.

My bus is an older model 1983 with a gas 366 engine. I have not really done anything to it but it does need a tune up but im putting that off due to it wont be on the road for a while and putting that money in to the inside for right now.

I would say if your going to put a lot of miles on the bus... go diesel. You will get a longer life out of it. As it has been said on here the repairs will cost more but hopefully you wont have issues. If I had to do it all over again I would get a diesel bus. If possible I would try and find people from this site and close to you and see if you can do a ride along with them and see what you like. Kind of a try it before you buy it deal.

Hope this helps
bapos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #4
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 30
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoolbus
I prefer diesel, but if you live where its cold gas might be better, diesel turns to gel at around 0 degrees F for #2 diesel, and -25 degrees for #1 diesel.
Right now I live in a decidedly non-mobile 6 story converted residential hotel in San Francisco. (An SRO)

Cold? Not so much as "chilly and foggy".
SweetBearCub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 12:17 PM   #5
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 30
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
I have worked on gas engines for many years in regular cars for many years. When I bought my bus I didn't put enough research in to the diesel vs gas debate. I do own a duramax 1 ton truck so I have experiences both sides when it comes to keeping them up.

other than more filters and more oil... over all the additional cost is what makes having a diesel more expensive or at least that has been the case with my 1 ton.

My bus is an older model 1983 with a gas 366 engine. I have not really done anything to it but it does need a tune up but im putting that off due to it wont be on the road for a while and putting that money in to the inside for right now.

I would say if your going to put a lot of miles on the bus... go diesel. You will get a longer life out of it. As it has been said on here the repairs will cost more but hopefully you wont have issues. If I had to do it all over again I would get a diesel bus. If possible I would try and find people from this site and close to you and see if you can do a ride along with them and see what you like. Kind of a try it before you buy it deal.

Hope this helps
So for you, other than the price premium at initial purchase, the extra costs on more filters and more oil, and possibly more expensive repairs - You would go diesel.

In your truck, do you find the extra cost of diesel fuel vs. unleaded to be worth it, at least in the fuel mileage department? Has it needed any repairs, if so, what and how much did they cost?

Of course we all want long engine life.

I wonder if anyone has done a recent study on two identical vehicles, one with a gasser, one with diesel, and computed the total cost of ownership over 1 to 5 years, including fuel, repairs, etc?

Also, the idea of a ride-along is a great idea, thanks!
SweetBearCub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 07:44 PM   #6
Bus Nut
 
bapos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cleburne TX
Posts: 692
Year: 2001
Chassis: International Amtran RE
Engine: DT466E/MD3060
Rated Cap: 78
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

for the pure size of the bus I would do diesel. Theres a reason why there are very few modern buses that are gas.

I have always driven non fuel efficient cars most of my life other than motorcycles. So I over bought this truck when I did... one I needed it for work and 2nd I was originally was thinking about a stick n staple trailer but moved to the bus instead. Most people who pull heavy stuff go to diesel for a reason. Do I think gas is cheaper yes... but again it goes back to what I said earlier... they are diesel for a reason.

The cost of filters and oil are not night and day different. Now repairs.... yes they are. I had to have head gaskets put on my duramax at 200k miles due to a flaw in them that GM used. It cost 4200.00 so yeah it hurts when they break. Since this is my first bus I am kind of cutting my teeth on this to find out how much I need what I want and what I don't want. Since the price was right I took a chance on it. Motor wise my 366 is currently fine but with a 30+ old motor that can change in a blink.

I think a ride along will more than be worth what ever you spend. This is why people need to hold locally gatherings of people who do this school bus conversion thing. There are some great minds on here to get ideas from. Just need them and others to chime in and talk. I think if you could go to a gathering and see peoples stuff it would be worth the cost of travel.
bapos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 08:12 PM   #7
Bus Geek
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Stony Plain Alberta Canada
Posts: 2,937
Year: 1992
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: TC2000 FE
Engine: 190hp 5.9 Cummins
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

Fellow bus owners

Most of our buses are from a age of simple mechanical Diesel engines. The 12 valve 5.9 Cummins, DT 366, 466 till 97 ( I think).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bapos
I had to have head gaskets put on my Duramax at 200k miles due to a flaw in them that GM used. It cost 4200.00 so yeah it hurts when they break.
Please don't mistake them for the modern Diesel jokes that are in today's pickups. There is a reason that the Duramax is not installed in buses.

Dollar for Dollar, you will not drive a gaser cheaper. It just won't happen. Diesel has about 130, 000 BTU per gallon. Gasoline has about 30% less BTU per gallon.
Gas engines have all kinds of small electric parts that need changing. Spark plugs, Wires, ect. Diesel's don't.
Diesel's only need Oil changes every 20, 000 km, gas need them every 5,000km.
Diesel's last 1,000,000km in a pickup, 500,000km in a bus. Gaser you would be lucky to see them last 250,000km.

Nat
__________________
"Don't argue with stupid people. They will just drag you down to their level, and beat you up with experience."

Patently waiting for the apocalypses to level the playing field in this physiological game of life commonly known as Civilization
nat_ster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 08:28 PM   #8
Bus Nut
 
Das Mel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Landlocked... for now.
Posts: 285
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

On top of what Bapos said, Diesel engines just last longer. A Diesel engine with a quarter of a million miles is just getting out of the starting gate, whereas a gasser will be needing replaced soon. My Bus will be a Diesel.
__________________
'Tace

Dog is my copilot. As I have no dog, I have no flight plan.

"If all porkchops were perfect, we wouldn't have hotdogs!" -Steven Universe
Das Mel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 11:02 PM   #9
Bus Nut
 
frank-id's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Twin Falls, Idaho
Posts: 809
which one and why?

Diesel engines are all very different in their working life. School buses are not all the same. There are many opinions with no real information. Some diesel engine need work at 100K miles. As example, a 7.3 int diesel V8 may not be a high millage engine.
Temper any engine words with more investigation. Frank
frank-id is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2013, 11:38 PM   #10
Bus Nut
 
JakeC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 732
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

While I agree that investigation and proof to statements are important, there are some things in life that I think we can just look around and accept as fact, at least in terms of a "this vs. that" generalized debate. Diesels longevity vs. gasoline I feel is one of those. For a heavy vehicle, at least. There is a reason they don't make gasoline semi engines. There is a reason I can't think of one single OEM bus manufacturer that uses gasoline engines. For a heavy vehicle, hands down, they are better. If someone disagrees, they can do their own research. Also, the expense isn't as big of a factor for all diesels. I can rebuild mine, in-frame, for around 1000. Replaceable liners ftw!
__________________
The journey is the destination...

Brutus
JakeC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2013, 09:42 AM   #11
Bus Nut
 
wmkbailey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: West Lafayette, IN
Posts: 832
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Engine: 3126
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeC
I can rebuild mine, in-frame, for around 1000. Replaceable liners ftw!
Lucky you. My CAT 3126 is not a wet sleeve, but can be rebuilt with an Inframe Rebuild Kit. My school district does it around 250,000 miles.

My main reason is they just sound cool.
__________________
William

visvi Cherokee for Journey, Sounds Like Oeesha

https://thejourneyvisvi.com/

My Conversion Thread:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=464989
wmkbailey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2013, 10:14 AM   #12
Bus Nut
 
JakeC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 732
Year: 1991
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International 3800
Engine: DT466
Rated Cap: 72
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

That is also a pretty big benefit, lol... I should post a video I just took of mine
__________________
The journey is the destination...

Brutus
JakeC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2013, 11:25 AM   #13
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 30
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

Thanks for the opinions, folks!

You've convinced me, when I finally do get my bus, it will be a diesel.
SweetBearCub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2013, 08:18 PM   #14
Bus Crazy
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: New England
Posts: 1,009
Year: 1993
Coachwork: Ward Genesis
Chassis: International
Engine: DT466/MT643
Rated Cap: 77
Re: Gas vs. diesel, which one and why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetBearCub
Thanks for the opinions, folks!

You've convinced me, when I finally do get my bus, it will be a diesel.
My B700 has gas power, got 6.5MPG. My Genesis is heavier, an automatic (B700 was a 5+2), and gets 10-11. A modern gas engine (Ford V10, GM 8100) would actually work fine in a skoolie...but they were not offered. I would look for a 5.9 Cummins or an International DT466. Both are very common engines that any truck shop can service.
__________________
Jarlaxle
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Optimism is a mental disorder.
Jarlaxle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2020, 11:03 PM   #15
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 18
1990 F-E350- gas

I'm currently looking at a 1990 F-E350 "para-transit dually" shuttle bus for $2000, its a 460 (with overdrive) with 186,000 miles on it. Has a gas engine. So far, it looks like a lot of you guys are leaning towards diesel buses.
But what do you guys think. Have you ever converted a bus like this? I'm looking for something reliable and gas mileage thats not too far below 9mpg. Have you heard anything in particular about these buses? Trying to decide whether I should be interested at al in it.
Dailybee23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 01:46 AM   #16
Traveling
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeC View Post
Diesels longevity vs. gasoline I feel is one of those. For a heavy vehicle, at least. There is a reason they don't make gasoline semi engines. There is a reason I can't think of one single OEM bus manufacturer that uses gasoline engines. For a heavy vehicle, hands down, they are better.
Actually, gasoline engines weren't always banished from the heavy truck world. Many medium-duty Ford cab-overs often used a 514 CID Super Duty gasser, an engine that Blue Bird used near-exclusively until the Caterpillar 3208 came out. The medium-duty Ford cab-over and its GM / Dodge counterparts were widely used in local and LTL (Less than TruckLoad) needs, though diesels made more sense for over-the-road.

Gas engines were quite common in skoolies until around 1990 or so. And in the wake of the emission control woes of 04+ diesels, gassers are making a comeback, though we're not likely to see them hit the auctions for some time to come.

Simply put, gasoline engines are cheaper and easier to maintain and repair, but do not last as long and are not as efficient as their diesel counterparts. Either can run on Compressed Natural Gas or Liquid Propane (these fuels are cheaper, but less readily available and less efficient, and the engines are usually less DIY-friendly).

Pros and cons of each:

Gasoline pros: Cheaper parts and repairs, easier cold starts, better acceleration and power range, parts / repair more DIY friendly, take hills better.

Gasoline cons: Less efficient, more to maintain, shorter service life, diagnosis of problems can be more complex.

Diesel pros: Better efficiency, lower maintenance, longer service life, often simpler diagnosis of problems.

Diesel cons: Parts and repairs are more expensive, harder cold starts, some parts and repairs not DIY friendly and may require a shop/dealer, slower acceleration, higher and more harmful emissions, don't take hills well.

Gasoline engines have become less common in larger buses in recent years, but may be making a comeback in years to come due to emission systems problems.

Diesels to avoid: Ford Powerstroke 6.0 / Navistar VT365, Navistar MaxxForce. Any 04+ diesel is likely to have troublesome emission equipment issues. 8.2 Detroits are okay engines, but getting harder to find qualified service / repair.

Not really any bad gas engines out there, but some older ones may prove difficult to get parts for if out of production, such as the 366 / 427 Chevrolet gas V8s. These in particular are specifically purpose-built for commercial vehicles and have little in common with other Chevrolet / GMC big-block V8s.

More to know about diesel: As others have mentioned, the fuel gels in cold weather without special additives, water must be drained from the filter / separator frequently (WATER IN FUEL IS DEATH TO A DIESEL - most have a warning light when this needs attention, but best to check it frequently). Most will have glow plugs to assist with cold starts, but not all. With these, you turn the key to RUN, wait for the system to cycle the glow plugs (most have a WAIT or GLOW PLUGS indicator). Biodiesel is not recommended for most and has been known to clog filters and fuel system components.

In the end, it really comes down to which engine type is better suited for your intended use, and where you plan to use it.
CHEESE_WAGON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2020, 08:03 AM   #17
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 27
Year: 1984
Coachwork: TMC
Chassis: MC-9
Engine: Detroit 6v92 TA
Rated Cap: More than I need
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dailybee23 View Post
I'm currently looking at a 1990 F-E350 "para-transit dually" shuttle bus for $2000, its a 460 (with overdrive) with 186,000 miles on it. Has a gas engine. So far, it looks like a lot of you guys are leaning towards diesel buses.
But what do you guys think. Have you ever converted a bus like this? I'm looking for something reliable and gas mileage thats not too far below 9mpg. Have you heard anything in particular about these buses? Trying to decide whether I should be interested at al in it.
The 460 is a tried and true engine. It should treat you right. The transmission as long as you make sure you don’t overheat it should be ok. I’d install a temp gauge for the transmission. It is a simple platform that works alright. You will probably get around 8 or 9 mpg depending on how you drive and how heavy you are when finished. My parents have a 1990 pickup with that combo and they tow a 36ft fifth wheel they have seen as low as 6 or 7 when out on the flat plains and as good as 8 or 9 when in the mountains still not sure I completely understand that but my duramax has had similar results mountains vs plains when pulling heavy. With their 460 running empty they have gotten as good as 12 mpg but I doubt a skoolie could get that, a lot more wind drag and never really gonna be empty after you build it out. But all in all a decent engine transmission combo that if taken care of should give you many happy miles.

PS Being a transit bus it might have lower gearing in the rear end that could hinder top speed but I bet it has 4.10s so you should be ok.
Stngllhm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 10:47 AM   #18
Mini-Skoolie
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Highlands, NC
Posts: 24
Nice comments . It seems this is an older thread, dealing with larger buses. As a newbe, and not owning a bus yet, I am interested in how the gas ( say v10) to diesel ( say duramax) in a short bus / shuttle bus would differ. Pros and cons please. And as I said, I'm new to it ,and an old dude, so please keep that in mind. Thank you
zen builder is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:19 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.