How to change school bus tire with no air compressor nearby.

[the7exp]

Hello,

So the one thing I don't have is a suitable air compressor to run a impact drill to take off a bus tire. Any recommended anything electric or something similar I can use to remove lug nuts safely so I can change out a tire? Thanks

[peteg59]

A torque multiplier will most likely help you...
https://www.northerntool.com/shop/to...2635_200732635

[s2mikon]

What peteg59 just said. I have the same one. It works.

[the7exp]

Thanks all. What about buying a air compressor and impact tool? What should I buy?

[s2mikon]

You will need a 1" impact gun and a 50 cfm compressor. If you buy a smaller compressor it will take a lot longer to get the job done. And you may still need the above mentioned torque multiplier.

[s2mikon]

I use the torque multiplier to loosen all 10 nuts and then use an electric impact to spin them off. Just the reverse to mount them.

[roach711]

I carry a 3/4" drive breaker bar and a 3' length of square tubing as a low buck "torque multiplier."

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by the7exp

Thanks all. What about buying a air compressor and impact tool? What should I buy?

I wouldn't even consider trying to buy a compressor and impact gun for changing tires on the road. I also don't rely on a socket and breaker bar, even with a long pipe cheater bar. I've had lug nuts which were so tight I couldn't budge them with a 5-foot pipe...but was able to spin them off with one arm, using this:



I think every bus owner should have one of these, a jack, some blocks, and a short shovel (which works well as a prying tool for lifting the tire off and on the hub).

[mmoore6856]

the most important thing with lug nuts is use neversieze on them. take it apart at home and every time you have the wheels off use it. now this is where those chrome lug nut covers really shine as they keep the neversieze from getting washed off. also if you have pilot mount wheels (1 lug nut for both wheels instead of budd nuts which have nut for the outside then a inner nut with a square drive for the inside wheel) the pilot mount is the large hole and fits tight on the ring of the hub. clean the rust off it and neversize it also. this will save you when the emergency tire repair on the road runs into extra pay as he has to pound your wheel off with a slege hammer

[Tejon7]

Originally Posted by mmoore6856

the most important thing with lug nuts is use neversieze on them.

I don't know enough to have a personal opinion here, but other new bus owners reading this should be aware that using anti-seize compounds on lug nuts is not a universally accepted practice. In fact, it's quite controversial. A quick Google search found the following link with a discussion about this topic:

https://www.busconversionmagazine.co...p?topic=3536.0

[rossvtaylor]

I can't speak to the issue of using or not using anti-seize compound on wheel studs and nuts, but I would point out that IF you use it it should only be applied to the threads and care must be taken to not get any between the nut and the wheel. Gillig, for example, has this warning in their service manual:



They have the best skull and crossbones drawings, by the way...

Now, in my prior career in the wind turbine industry, I became aware that fasteners had different torque specs dry and wet. The change in coefficient of friction in wet and dry conditions would change the amount of stretch applied to the fastener. In other words, a bolt torqued to 500 foot pounds dry would stretch less than a bolt torqued to 500 foot pounds wet...simply because the reduced stickocity (a word I just made up) of the wet/lubricated nut would allow it to rotate further before the torque wrench yells, "stop" and as a result the bolt was under more tension than a dry fastener. Manufacturers considered "wet" to include oil, grease, anti-seize or even thread locking compounds.

From the Gillig warning, it seems that they aren't concerned about wet threads...maybe the threads being wet doesn't make enough of a difference? But they seem quite concerned about lubricating the facing/mating surfaces between the nut and the wheel.

Of more practical note for those changing their own tires, please remember that some buses have left-hand (LH) threads on the studs on the left side of the bus. On those studs, usually marked with a L or LH stamp on the end of the stud, righty tighty/lefty loosey won't work. Even though I know this, I've (more than once) caught myself turning them the wrong way out of habit...

[musigenesis]

Originally Posted by rossvtaylor

They have the best skull and crossbones drawings, by the way...

I've never seen one where the bone appeared to be going into the skull like that. It's a pretty stark warning when somebody rips off your leg and bashes you in the head with it. It was probably the dude's dentist: "I told you to floss!"

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by musigenesis

I've never seen one where the bone appeared to be going into the skull like that. It's a pretty stark warning when somebody rips off your leg and bashes you in the head with it. It was probably the dude's dentist: "I told you to floss!"

Haha! Thanks, MG...I just spit morning coffee through my nose...

[mmoore6856]

Read and understand what that warning is telling you.
Lubricant is oil antisieze is not a lubricant once again google is full of morons. Ask any tire guy that works on them not google. Been there for 20 years doing that with antisieze and never lost a wheel

[mmoore6856]

I read it on the internet so it must be true is the wrong way to find answers. Ask a person that actually does it

[rossvtaylor]

It was not my intent to make anyone think I was arguing against using anti-seize...and I did read and understand what the warning told me. Oil is, indeed, a lubricant. But so is anti-seize. In fact, Permatex and other manufacturers of anti-seize call them Anti-Seize Lubricant.



So, since the manufacturer of the anti-seize calls it a lubricant...and the manufacturer of 3 of our buses warns me not to allow a lubricant to get between the mating faces of the nut and wheel...I will follow that caution and thought it prudent to share it with others.

Hopefully I have soothed any undue morning testiness.

[Booyah45828]

Don't buy an air compressor and 1 inch gun to remove your wheels on the off-chance that you have to. You'll be $1000+ in tools and it's not necessary. Like others have said, a 1" breaker bar and a thick cheater pipe is way cheaper. If you want, buy a cheap torque multiplier if you really insist on spending money.

If you do buy the compressor and gun, you'll need to buy 1/2" air lines and quick connects as well. Your standard compressor hoses are 1/4" or 3/8" and won't flow enough to supply the 1 inch gun.

Use neverseize on hub pilot and stud pilot rims only. They have enough torque on the nut to not be affected by the lubricant causing the nut to spin back off. We actually use white lithium grease in an aerosol can in the shop. It's quicker/easier/cleaner to apply then neverseize.

Never oil/grease threads on a passneger car/light truck or on dayton rims. The torque isn't high enough to prevent back off from the slickness of the grease. If the nut won't spin on easily, clean up the threads on the nut and stud with a thread chaser.

If you're nuts have an integral washer. a drop of oil between the washer and nut will keep you from trashing rims from the washer spinning with the nut. Neverseize and grease doesn't work as well on that because you can't easily apply it where it needs to be.

[Danjo]

I thought this thread was going to be about flicking matches at a tire full of starting fluid

[cadillackid]

if using a torque multiplier how do you torque the bolts back down.. do you use the quoted gear ratio as a torque ratio? ie if the gear ratio is 1.5:1 in the torque multiplier and you want 450 ft lbs on the nut do you set your torque wrench at 300?


or do you still have to have a long pipe and bounce like crazy on the torque wrench without the multiplier to put them on?

[rossvtaylor]

Originally Posted by cadillackid

if using a torque multiplier how do you torque the bolts back down.. do you use the quoted gear ratio as a torque ratio? ie if the gear ratio is 1.5:1 in the torque multiplier and you want 450 ft lbs on the nut do you set your torque wrench at 300?


or do you still have to have a long pipe and bounce like crazy on the torque wrench without the multiplier to put them on?

Good question...and I'll be frank, that when I change a tire on the roadside I torque them tight by feel with the torque multiplier. This is not ideal and not a recommendation to others. The torque multiplier I posted above is too sloppy and imprecise for me to count on it being accurate. But it's super powerful.

Now, at home with our shop that's different. I have and use a different torque multiplier and a torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts. This one is a pretty precise tool with a 3X multiple. And yes, for this, I do exactly what you describe...math! I had one of these from my wind turbine days where we had to tighten alternator bolts to 700 ft pounds in a pretty small space. I could do that with a standard 1/2-inch torque wrench and this multiplier. Our mechanical engineers actually specified this particular Neiko tool, after they tested it and found it to be accurate.



I've had one of these for about 10 years now and it's a great tool. The "last purchased" date shown from last year was when I bought one as a gift for a vintage diesel mechanic.