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06-08-2019, 07:07 PM
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#1
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 42
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How would I get Cruise Control?
I want to install cruise control on my 2002 39ft 8.1L Gas V8 Bluebird.
I had to get gas since my mechanic (who is helping me move! now thats a real friend!) is not a diesel tech.
anyway. its a pig. 4mpg. the problem is the dang thing is freaking fast and you can't feel it. on the drive home I hit 75mph and never in a million years would have guessed. in fact I thought the speedometer was broken so while cruising along at 75mph I took out my phone to check my speed.
holy crap. it really was hauling along at 75mph. it felt like 50.
I want to keep it to 55mph for the 2000mile trip to save on fuel. cruise control would make that so much easier on something so deceptive regarding speed.
is that even possible? suggestions?
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06-10-2019, 01:43 PM
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#2
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 204
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
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Cruise control retrofitting is possible. Some buses already have it somewhere in the controls. It might need to be activated in the ECU on yours. Look around for anything that might relate to a “high idle” switch.
Not to sound like a nag, but you’ve gotta adjust your driving habits to suit the vehicle and road conditions! I totally understand how you feel regarding speed and size relation with these vehicles. Going fast feels slower than it is. But in the end it’s up to you to control your right foot, cruise control is a crutch! Haha
Gas school buses get notoriously worse fuel MPGa than diesel, but you may save on maintenance costs and parts in turn. Congrats on your bus and have fun with your build!
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06-10-2019, 02:31 PM
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#3
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 42
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on the one hand I agree with you.
on the other hand it don't matter. When I make the trip it will literally be the third time I have ever driven the thing.
1st drove it home.
2nd will be once I get the tires and I take it down to SNJ to get them installed and have the mechanic once over the bus to make sure we are good
3rd time 2000 mile drive cross country.
$200 cruise control will be cheaper than the GAS I burn if I don't learn the accelerator in that time.
it takes time to "learn" a new vehicle especially one so different. if I drove this daily no doubt within a few weeks I would have the pedal feel and velocity feel of the vehicle down pat.
I can't afford to just "drive it around" to learn the feel of it. 4mpg.
so if I can toss $200 at it and save myself $300 or $400 in fuel. hell yes
every 0.1mpg up or down will cost me or save me $40!!! if I did the math right
though that begs the question. WHAT IS the fuel economy between 70mph and 55mph ? I don't even know. maybe its a minuscule difference.
anyone know?
its a 2002 496 V8
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06-10-2019, 02:51 PM
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#4
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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Saw an eagle manual trans bus with a lever attached to a door stop which presses the accelerator when pulled and locked to a position. "low tech manual cruise control" This could be a simple solution to your problem.
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06-10-2019, 03:26 PM
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#5
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Bus Geek
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Eustis FLORIDA
Posts: 23,826
Year: 1999
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: Freighliner FS65
Engine: Cat 3126
Rated Cap: 15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
on the one hand I agree with you.
on the other hand it don't matter. When I make the trip it will literally be the third time I have ever driven the thing.
1st drove it home.
2nd will be once I get the tires and I take it down to SNJ to get them installed and have the mechanic once over the bus to make sure we are good
3rd time 2000 mile drive cross country.
$200 cruise control will be cheaper than the GAS I burn if I don't learn the accelerator in that time.
it takes time to "learn" a new vehicle especially one so different. if I drove this daily no doubt within a few weeks I would have the pedal feel and velocity feel of the vehicle down pat.
I can't afford to just "drive it around" to learn the feel of it. 4mpg.
so if I can toss $200 at it and save myself $300 or $400 in fuel. hell yes
every 0.1mpg up or down will cost me or save me $40!!! if I did the math right
though that begs the question. WHAT IS the fuel economy between 70mph and 55mph ? I don't even know. maybe its a minuscule difference.
anyone know?
its a 2002 496 V8
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My old gasser did 3 mpg. Par for the course man.
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06-10-2019, 03:34 PM
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#6
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Picton,Ont, Can.
Posts: 1,956
Year: 1997
Coachwork: Bluebird
Chassis: GMC
Engine: Cat 3116
Rated Cap: 72
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If you have a gasser just get a vaccum gage, run a hose from the vacuum system and mount the gage where you can constantly see it. Drive with a light foot and the highest reading possible when cruising
Cheap but increases mileage. Thee gage drops lower when your foot is in the throttle heavily.
John
edit: Add both cruise and the gage. watch the gage and then you will turn cruise to OFF. Poorer mileage when turned ON.
__________________
Question everything!
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06-10-2019, 03:37 PM
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#7
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 204
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
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You’re not going to get any better than 4-5 mpg with a gasser moving a 10 ton brick through the air. Cruise control is more of a creature comfort than a fuel boosting aid on this type of vehicle. It would save your ankle from getting sore, but isn’t going to magically boost your mileage!
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06-10-2019, 03:44 PM
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#8
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Salt Lake City Utah
Posts: 1,635
Year: 2000
Chassis: Blue Bird
Engine: ISC 8.3
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Get the VIN and the make of the chassis. Call a commercial trucks dealer for that chassis make. Given the VIN, or model year and engine size, I suppose they'd be able to tell you whether it's likely your ECU has a built-in cruise control feature they could turn on, how much they'd charge for the service, and what accessory switches you might need to buy to control it. I'll guess it's likely that the ECU would have a cruise feature available.
As a DIY alternative you might look at aftermarket cruise control kits from Rostra. I nearly bought one of theirs.. but then I found out the ECM in my bus has a cruise control features and the switches were already in the dash; I just had to get the feature enabled.
Even if cruise control didn't save you any money at the gas pump, 2000 miles of highway or interstate is a long time to have to press the skinny pedal.
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06-10-2019, 03:58 PM
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#9
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 1,349
Year: 1990
Coachwork: Thomas 4 window w/lift
Chassis: G30~Chevy cutaway
Engine: 5.7/350 Chevy Vortec
Rated Cap: Just me and my "stuff"?
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It would be a good feature to have on a long monotonous cross country trip, but if it can't be added now you'll have to get used to the speed "by fire", so to speak.
What did folks do in the days before C/C was introduced as an option?
They did what they had to do to get from point A to point B, and drove it!
Good luck doing what you're looking to do...
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06-10-2019, 06:08 PM
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#10
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,089
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
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It's freakin' hyuuuuuuuu-ge!
Did you know that birds are fish? Is truth! When in flight, they're swimming thru the air. While air is an amalgam of gasses, it behaves very much like a fluid.
Walk thru a puddle a coupla inches depth, and then waist deep water. More difficult, right?
A vagrant breeze may feel delightful. Try facing into the winds spun off of an F-5 tornado. It'll send you a$$ over tea kettle.
Read on, MacDuff...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
...
though that begs the question. WHAT IS the fuel economy between 70mph and 55mph ? I don't even know. maybe its a minuscule difference.
*It isn't!*
anyone know?
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OK, I'll try to simplify a complicated situation as much as possible. Bear in mind, once past @ 30 mph, the majority of energy expended is spent overcoming wind resistance instead of rolling resistance.
Mathaphobics, feel free to skip foreward!
Short of using the tachometer (lowest comfy reading in highest gear), the equation to determine what forces are at play and their results while paddling your bus along, is:
Fd (drag force, in N)= Cd (drag coefficient) * 1/2 * p (fluid density [air=1.2 kg/cubic meter]) * V squared (flow velocity, m/s) * A (frontal area characteristic [height*width], meters squared)
Cd for a dolphin = 0.0036. An aircraft wing is 0.05. A standing person's is 1.0-1.3. A rectangular box,' 2.1. And a bus = 0.6 - 0.8.
Convert your speeds from miles/hour to meters/second (multiply mph by 0.447)
The faster you go, the more force is required to overcome the air resistance. Drag increases with speed squared. The power needed to push an object thru the air increases with the speed cubed.
In short, doubling the speed quadruples the power need for speed. The sweet spot for maximum fuel economy in most bus' ranges from approximately 45-55 mph.
Clear as mud..?
*
Creature comfort sure, but not entirely.
Maintaining a constant velocity, avoiding upward jags in acceleration, will aid in improving fuel economy, especially on long drives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WARGEAR
You’re not going to get any better than 4-5 mpg with a gasser moving a 10 ton brick through the air. Cruise control is more of a creature comfort than a fuel boosting aid on this type of vehicle. It would save your ankle from getting sore, but isn’t going to magically boost your mileage!
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Nifty trick!
I don't reckon it'd work for a diesel..?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackJohn
If you have a gasser just get a vaccum gage, run a hose from the vacuum system and mount the gage where you can constantly see it. Drive with a light foot and the highest reading possible when cruising
Cheap but increases mileage. Thee gage drops lower when your foot is in the throttle heavily.
John
edit: Add both cruise and the gage. watch the gage and then you will turn cruise to OFF. Poorer mileage when turned ON.
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__________________
Those who say that it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it.
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06-10-2019, 06:27 PM
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#11
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Skoolie
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Fingerlakes region NY
Posts: 204
Year: 1999
Coachwork: AmTran/Wolfington
Chassis: 3800
Engine: International DT466E 190HP variant
Rated Cap: 72 pax 29500 GVWR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haz.matt.1960
It's freakin' hyuuuuuuuu-ge!
Did you know that birds are fish? Is truth! When in flight, they're swimming thru the air. While air is an amalgam of gasses, it behaves very much like a fluid.
Walk thru a puddle a coupla inches depth, and then waist deep water. More difficult, right?
A vagrant breeze may feel delightful. Try facing into the winds spun off of an F-5 tornado. It'll send you a$$ over tea kettle.
Read on, MacDuff...
OK, I'll try to simplify a complicated situation as much as possible. Bear in mind, once past @ 30 mph, the majority of energy expended is spent overcoming wind resistance instead of rolling resistance.
Mathaphobics, feel free to skip foreward!
Short of using the tachometer (lowest comfy reading in highest gear), the equation to determine what forces are at play and their results while paddling your bus along, is:
Fd (drag force, in N)= Cd (drag coefficient) * 1/2 * p (fluid density [air=1.2 kg/cubic meter]) * V squared (flow velocity, m/s) * A (frontal area characteristic [height*width], meters squared)
Cd for a dolphin = 0.0036. An aircraft wing is 0.05. A standing person's is 1.0-1.3. A rectangular box,' 2.1. And a bus = 0.6 - 0.8.
Convert your speeds from miles/hour to meters/second (multiply mph by 0.447)
The faster you go, the more force is required to overcome the air resistance. Drag increases with speed squared. The power needed to push an object thru the air increases with the speed cubed.
In short, doubling the speed quadruples the power need for speed. The sweet spot for maximum fuel economy in most bus' ranges from approximately 45-55 mph.
Clear as mud..?
*
Creature comfort sure, but not entirely.
Maintaining a constant velocity, avoiding upward jags in acceleration, will aid in improving fuel economy, especially on long drives.
Nifty trick!
I don't reckon it'd work for a diesel..?
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I don’t think it’d work the same as a diesel. They don’t have a throttle plate and don’t create vacuum like gassers do.
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06-10-2019, 06:34 PM
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#12
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: E Central Tejas
Posts: 2,089
Year: 1998
Coachwork: Thomas
Chassis: IH 3800, 8 window
Engine: T444E w/ Spicer 5-speed MT
Rated Cap: I prefer broad-brims hats
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WARGEAR
I don’t think it’d work the same as a diesel. They don’t have a throttle plate and don’t create vacuum like gassers do.
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Yup, that's what I'm thinking. Too bad, it's an awesome hack!
__________________
Those who say that it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it.
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06-10-2019, 08:09 PM
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#13
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 42
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trust me I know all about drag. Went to school to be an AE and I design rockets. (amateur)
slower is better fuel economy. but there is also typically a ceiling where you are just not going to get better without drastic (aero) mods.
for example the difference between 55 and 65 in my big clubwagon was not much. (.2mpg 24mpg average)
but as your fuel economy gets lower and lower tiny difference make huge results. at 4mpg every .1mpg is $40 saved in fuel on a 2000mile trip. I doubt I can increase it by 1mpg but even .4 or .5mpg would be huge.
if I had time and finances I would put a nose cone on this booger and a tail cone along with some side skirts. I might still do the boat tail if time allows since I think I still have some corrugated plastic lying around (if it has not been taken)
as for what did we do before cruise control? easy. we learned to "feel" the vehicle.
I don't have time for that. and I don't want to learn at 4mpg I can't afford to just use it as a DD to learn to feel it. costs to much in fuel.
I wonder. its newer than 1996. does this thing even have an OBDII port or is that legal requirement only for non com vehicles?
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06-10-2019, 08:29 PM
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#14
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
trust me I know all about drag. Went to school to be an AE and I design rockets. (amateur)
slower is better fuel economy. but there is also typically a ceiling where you are just not going to get better without drastic (aero) mods.
for example the difference between 55 and 65 in my big clubwagon was not much. (.2mpg 24mpg average)
but as your fuel economy gets lower and lower tiny difference make huge results. at 4mpg every .1mpg is $40 saved in fuel on a 2000mile trip. I doubt I can increase it by 1mpg but even .4 or .5mpg would be huge.
if I had time and finances I would put a nose cone on this booger and a tail cone along with some side skirts. I might still do the boat tail if time allows since I think I still have some corrugated plastic lying around (if it has not been taken)
as for what did we do before cruise control? easy. we learned to "feel" the vehicle.
I don't have time for that. and I don't want to learn at 4mpg I can't afford to just use it as a DD to learn to feel it. costs to much in fuel.
I wonder. its newer than 1996. does this thing even have an OBDII port or is that legal requirement only for non com vehicles?
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I had a truck camper mounted on my flat deck -stuck way up in the air making a big sail - got 3 1/2 mpg on a trip - made my own scoop to lift the air over the camper - next trip I got 7 mph - a little aerodynamics can help a lot
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06-10-2019, 08:32 PM
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#15
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Mini-Skoolie
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 42
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oh yeah. got a good one for my geo metro.
At the time I was averaging 56-58mpg (I can now average 62mpg and tickle 65 regularly)
anyway had to go get some shelving for the store. the super cheap helium steel stuff that you can life with your pinky and is super slinky and flimsy but strong once you put weight on it.
anyway got 7 of them. 6 fit nicely in the base drag area of the car but the 7th stuck up into the airstream above the roofline of the car.
35mpg on the way home and 5th gear was "nullified"
the car lacked sufficient power to accelerate in 5th gear because of the increased drag and lost over 20mpg!
amazing.
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06-10-2019, 08:43 PM
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#16
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: south east BC, close to the Canadian/US border
Posts: 2,265
Year: 1975
Coachwork: Chevy
Chassis: 8 window
Engine: 454 LS7
Rated Cap: 24,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
oh yeah. got a good one for my geo metro.
At the time I was averaging 56-58mpg (I can now average 62mpg and tickle 65 regularly)
anyway had to go get some shelving for the store. the super cheap helium steel stuff that you can life with your pinky and is super slinky and flimsy but strong once you put weight on it.
anyway got 7 of them. 6 fit nicely in the base drag area of the car but the 7th stuck up into the airstream above the roofline of the car.
35mpg on the way home and 5th gear was "nullified"
the car lacked sufficient power to accelerate in 5th gear because of the increased drag and lost over 20mpg!
amazing.
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in a similar vein, my old ford crewcab was on it's last legs -driving west of town there is a slight incline, so slight I doubt a fit bicycle rider would notice it - I could 'pull' that incline in high gear unless I had a dog sled on the roof of the boxes - with a dog sled on top I had to gear down to maintain speed - a racing dog sled is composed of not more than a few sticks - you wouldn't think there would be enough drag to slow a vehicle at all
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06-11-2019, 02:53 PM
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#17
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Bus Nut
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Philadelpiha Pennsylvania
Posts: 397
Year: 2007
Coachwork: IC
Chassis: FE Bus
Engine: DT-466 7.6L Turbo Diesel
Rated Cap: 77
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You could probably adapt something simple like this to suit your needs.
https://www.amazon.com/Lawnmower-Uni...gateway&sr=8-4
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06-19-2019, 05:23 PM
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#18
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,384
Year: 1971
Coachwork: Wayne
Chassis: International Loadstar 1700
Engine: 345 international V-8
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I second a vacuum gauge, it will help to get the feel sooner and will help you drive for the best mileage. Although I am sure there must be a way to get cruise control, this is a first step. Funny I took the cruise control off my bus. A very antique system and did not feel like messing with it.
I just took a trip to Minnesota and back (from Virginia, and pulling a trailer) and was hitting some strong head winds going out. Averaged 5.2 mpg. On the way back the head winds were tail winds being that I was going eastbound. 5.4 mpg. And east bound my trailer was loaded with 4,000lbs of stuff.
I try to stay around 65mph.
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06-19-2019, 05:50 PM
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#19
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Traveling
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,302
Year: None
Coachwork: None
Chassis: None
Engine: None
Rated Cap: None
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GM offers this 8.1 as a factory engine option in the HD Silverado, and they are available with cruise control, so there's your answer. It can be done, just a question of how much work it will be to do it. I'm with the thought process of calling a commercial truck dealer or perhaps the bus body manufacturer with the VIN to see what shakes loose.
It may indeed have it, just not activated in the settings, though I believe cruise control on skoolies has evolved to more than just a high-idle switch or lever. I've driven many Class 8 trucks that had cruise, no reason a Class 7-chassis school bus wouldn't.
If nothing else, some vehicles could be retrofitted with dealer-installed cruise control, A/C and a few other goodies if they weren't factory-equipped. Just to give you a shove in the right direction, your skoolie is built on a 5500-6500 series chassis, and I'm quite sure cruise was an option on those as well.
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06-19-2019, 05:51 PM
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#20
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Bus Crazy
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,264
Year: 2001
Coachwork: Blue Bird
Chassis: IH
Engine: T444E
Rated Cap: 14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nerys
Though that begs the question. WHAT IS the fuel economy between 70mph and 55mph ? I don't even know. maybe its a minuscule difference.
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My personal experience:
'02 Freightliner Century. 53' dry van trailer, 22K pounds in the trailer. 6.2 MPG averaging 70 MPH (over the course of about a month). Enter Illinios where speed limit (at the time) was 55 for trucks. Set cruise on 61. Zeroed out average fuel economy tracker. 8.1 MPG across IL. YMMV.
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